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tripluv
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pf jars and mad bag options
#18945016 - 10/07/13 02:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am a first timer and have some questions. I have 15 pf tek half pint jars close to 100% colonization that I will let consolidate for a week before birthing. I also have 8 mad bags that I inoculated a week before the jars and are mostly 90-100% colonized.
I would like to use the monotub method after reading endless info on the shroomery. I am not exactly sure what the mad bags consist of as they are supposed to be in vitro grow bags, but I am feeling ambitious. They have some grain for sure - could I spawn (not sure that is the correct terminology here) the bags to a monotub? What is recommended method? Better to do after first flush?
I also bought plenty of peat, verm, crushed oyster shell, lime, and perlite to do a separate 50/50+ casing tub and third tub as straight pf tek jars dunked and rolled on perlite. Would I be better off using the jars with the monotub? Could I combine jars and bags in monotub (this seems unlikely, but I am curious)?
My grow hasnt been flawless as I threw out a jar yesterday with no mycelium, but cloudy white contam that was turning tan/brownish. I opened the jar outside before tossing it, so that I could get a whiff of my first contam and it was AWFUL smelling, haha. Name of mold, anyone?
I'm sure some of you think that I am trying too much to start , but I worked in a lab growing cancer cells under laminar flow some years back (so some experience playing with cells, media, contams, etc) and am excited about playing with all this dirt, spores, microscopes, and techniques . Any and all input is greatly appreciated!
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Muffinman1552
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#18945094 - 10/07/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The options really consist of exactly what you've listed and with as many jars and spawn bags as there are, I would say that you have plenty enough to experiment with all of the available options to figure out whatever works best for however you do things.
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Stromrider
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I would recommend you just birth your cakes and mad bags into a sgfc and fruit them that way but go ahead and start you some grain jars to use to spawn a monotub with. I think it is important to fruit mushrooms in a regular old manual sgfc for your first grow. It gives you a very good opportunity to learn how to watch the mushrooms grow and see what they need to grow.
Btw you could combine jars and bags to spawn a monotub
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
#18949843 - 10/08/13 02:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks for the input. I do plan on birthing some of the cakes to a SGFC, but not the bags as I remember reading FrankH saying he got nothing but contams when treating the bags like cakes.
I forgot to mention that I also bought a mono tub fill kit from a sponsor containing: 3 one pound bags of rye berries, 2 five pound bags of Manure Based Mushroom Substrate and 1 one pound bag of casing. I have some more MS syringes that I could noc the rye berries up with, but MS just doesnt sound great after doing research. I also watched the entire "Let's grow mushrooms" catalog by RR this morning and want to do cloning and isolation on agar if I get some decent fruits.
I could just take my 4 fully colonized bags and break it up with the manure substrate, let that colonize in a tub, then case, and fruit, correct? Is that overkill?
Also, the mycelium in this jar (you can see it on the right side) and a couple others have pulled away from the side of the jar a good 1/2" - is that normal? What does it indicate? Does there look like too much condensation in the jar?
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#18949884 - 10/08/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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psilly, after going back and reading your bulk tek maybe I should go ahead and noc up some grain jars (I happen to have pint and a half on hand) just to have at least one good one to go for g2g when I'm ready. How many cc's of MS do you suppose is good for pint and a half? 5?
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Stromrider
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#18949943 - 10/08/13 02:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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1 cc is more than enough. Heck a half of a cc is enough. Sorry I haven't got any pics up on the tek yet. I been pretty busy with my bees
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Muffinman1552
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
#18950024 - 10/08/13 03:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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From the materials as youve listed them, you can inoculate the rye berries and allow it to fully colonize and mix it in with a bulk substrate as a seperate project while you may as well use your fully colonized substrate as spawn for your bulk manure and casing. Rye grain spawn however can also be used as a spawn culture for jars as you will only need a few grains per jar and you will therefore have the opportunity to make as many jars as you wish with a substrate of your choice. (provided that you have sterile conditions with which to inoculate your jars) As for the reductions from the walls of your jar, I would attribute it to a fully colonized cake. Condensation is normal.
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tripluv
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Good to know about my jars! Thanks for the advice about what to do with the rye, poop, and casing - sounds like what I'll do in addition to the all important and most educational pf tek. I am, however, uncertain about what you're saying about the rye spawn...Are you saying to fully colonize a grain jar as a master, then take a little clump of colonized grain and move it, in a SAB (I def dont have laminar flow), to another jar containing whatever bulk substrate I want?
Also, my spore syringes are pretty clear looking from a no-longer-sponsored-vendor (not LC), however they did seem to work well with the mad bags and my pf jars - 4 1/2 weeks and 3 1/2 weeks for full colonization, respectively. Just making sure that 1/2cc is still good with that info...
Looking forward to the picks, psilly, and have fun with the bees!
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Stromrider
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#18950982 - 10/08/13 06:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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1/2 cc is still enough with a "clear" syringe. I guarantee you there are a lot more spores in there than you realize
Good luck bud. Let us know how it goes
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
#18951030 - 10/08/13 06:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ya man! Looking forward to posting some pics of my own if all goes well!!
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Stromrider
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#18951062 - 10/08/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Stick to the teks of people like frankhorrigan and transcending life and you'll be good. My complete bulk tek came from a combination of their teks. I was just trying to combine everything in one place to make it easier for first timers. It still needs some work, some editing, and some pics to make it a little easier to follow for a first time grower. When it gets cold out soon I will have a lot more time
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Kizzle
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
#18951100 - 10/08/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
would like to use the monotub method after reading endless info on the shroomery. I am not exactly sure what the mad bags consist of as they are supposed to be in vitro grow bags, but I am feeling ambitious.
If they're meant to be grown in vitro you could fruit them in a monotub as is (once they fully colonize). If they're just grains, no manure or compost or anything in the bag you would need to spawn the colonized grains to a bulk substrate or use a casing layer to fruit them.
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Stromrider
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Kizzle]
#18951116 - 10/08/13 06:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said:
Quote:
would like to use the monotub method after reading endless info on the shroomery. I am not exactly sure what the mad bags consist of as they are supposed to be in vitro grow bags, but I am feeling ambitious.
If they're meant to be grown in vitro you could fruit them in a monotub as is (once they fully colonize). If they're just grains, no manure or compost or anything in the bag you would need to spawn the colonized grains to a bulk substrate or use a casing layer to fruit them.
Mad bags are a mixture of Grain, brf, and vermiculite. They do ok invitro but they do really well fruiting in a sgfc. Although they take a while to colonize. I am speaking from personal experience.
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Sockadin



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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
#18951188 - 10/08/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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So we want pics when this happens and we want to know what the hell are you going to do with all those mushies!
Good Job Bro, Best of luck.
Birth the Jars to a SGFC.
Bags to a Mono.
Get some Malt/Agar and start growing some Myc. Cancer Boy!
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Sockadin]
#18951317 - 10/08/13 07:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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haha, ya I tend to get carried away when I get excited about something! Pics will definitely be coming...I'm already dreaming up growing scenarios for pan cyans and azures - I would love to try some outside...AND definitely edibles! I already have some san pedro cuttings rooting, haha. Ugliest cuttings ever...we'll see
malt/agar sounds a lot closer than my other dreams as I want to feel good about these cubes first
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Stromrider
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#18951331 - 10/08/13 07:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sockadin said: Get some Malt/Agar and start growing some Myc. Cancer Boy!
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Muffinman1552
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
#18951421 - 10/08/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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there will be a shock for most kinds of mycellium when introduced to a new substrate, however, yes, a chunk of fully colonized and fresh mycellium will colonize new substrate if handled correctly.
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tripluv
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Anything wrong with starting a SGFC with a couple of the bags and then adding pf cakes later to the FC, like in a couple days when they are consolidated?
[tex][/Quote:
Muffinman1552 said: there will be a shock for most kinds of mycellium when introduced to a new substrate, however, yes, a chunk of fully colonized and fresh mycellium will colonize new substrate if handled correctly.
In RR's "Horse Manure Prep" video he spawns grain to horse poop in open air. So, when do I need to be careful? I guess when I'm going from grain master to another sterile substrate? Guess I answered my own question, but I have zero experience
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Muffinman1552
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#18954779 - 10/09/13 02:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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In RR's "Horse Manure Prep" video he spawns grain to horse poop in open air. So, when do I need to be careful? I guess when I'm going from grain master to another sterile substrate? Guess I answered my own question, but I have zero experience
horse manure is naturally resistant to contaminants as many other varieties of substrate are not.
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tripluv
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ahhh i see said the blind nooB
looking more into agar today, looks like a bunch of money to get started with petri dishes and MEA with all the steps in isolation! Lot cheaper to clone with LC for a while
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Stromrider
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#18955137 - 10/09/13 04:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
tripluv said: ahhh i see said the blind nooB
looking more into agar today, looks like a bunch of money to get started with petri dishes and MEA with all the steps in isolation! Lot cheaper to clone with LC for a while
Tisk Tisk! Cloning with lc is a bad idea and will end up in contamination a lot of the time. Especiallyffor a noob that doesn't have sterile procedure down. Agar is not expensive to get into. Especially if you make your own and use the no pour 1/2 pint jar method.
I'm actually being a little bit of a hypocrite since I buy pre-made agar and disposable petris but I have the extra money so it's all good
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
#18956332 - 10/09/13 08:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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tek for no pour agar half pint method? havent seen that one
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TheWiz
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#18958348 - 10/10/13 08:48 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
tripluv said: Anything wrong with starting a SGFC with a couple of the bags and then adding pf cakes later to the FC, like in a couple days when they are consolidated?
[tex][/Quote:
Muffinman1552 said: there will be a shock for most kinds of mycellium when introduced to a new substrate, however, yes, a chunk of fully colonized and fresh mycellium will colonize new substrate if handled correctly.
In RR's "Horse Manure Prep" video he spawns grain to horse poop in open air. So, when do I need to be careful? I guess when I'm going from grain master to another sterile substrate? Guess I answered my own question, but I have zero experience
My guess is that the horse manure was pasteurized. Search "Pasteurize" here and you'll find countless threads overflowing with information.
-------------------- I'd hit it.
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Kizzle
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#18959976 - 10/10/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
tripluv said: tek for no pour agar half pint method? havent seen that one
No pour, no MEA, no agar

That's BRF with a small amount of water added. It's Crude but I'd still consider it a step up from cloning directly to a LC.
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Stromrider
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Kizzle]
#18960059 - 10/10/13 03:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's definitely crude
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
#18961339 - 10/10/13 08:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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ordered MEA premix, y plates, tyvek sleeves today. found a medical supply place next town over for some other goodies without shipping. Also, found a farm supply with a 50lb bag of rye for 24 bucks! Its on bitches!!
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Stromrider
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#18961357 - 10/10/13 08:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hell yeah!
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TheWiz
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Kizzle]
#18963872 - 10/11/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said:
Quote:
tripluv said: tek for no pour agar half pint method? havent seen that one
No pour, no MEA, no agar

That's BRF with a small amount of water added. It's Crude but I'd still consider it a step up from cloning directly to a LC.
Do you do this often? How long does the myc take to colonize? Does it contam frequently?
Quote:
psillyshroomer said: It's definitely crude 
I once heard a wise man say, "If it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid."
-------------------- I'd hit it.
Edited by TheWiz (10/11/13 12:57 PM)
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: TheWiz]
#18979158 - 10/14/13 10:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just birthed my cakes! So pumped!! 4 different strains cause I like experiments : G.T., cambos, B+, and Alacabenzi. G.T. colonized the fastest by close to a week and B+ colonized the slowest by far, which is why there are 2 partial cakes in the bath below - I had to cut off uncolonized parts and toss em in the compost... Another experiment, haha - wonder if they'll grow outside. Hoping I can develop one of these Which reminds me that I got some yage seeds in mail Anyone have any experience growing?
Hydration Station

Whats with the yellow/tan coloration of this myc? It smells delicious, so I dont believe its contam.

Primordia?

...and the monotub I spawned 3 days ago is coming along

I spawned my monotub with only 2 of the madbags, so I hope that I still get good yields. After going back and reading about them, it seems peeps be spawning with like 7 quarts, oops I layered it like RR does in his casing video. 2 strains - one side G.T. and the other side cambos
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Stupendous-Yappi
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#18979227 - 10/14/13 10:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Whats with the yellow/tan coloration of this myc? It smells delicious, so I dont believe its contam.
It may just be metabolites from the myc.
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tripluv
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Problem?? I made casing last night using 50/50+ (pasteurized, not sterilized). However, I was in a rush and apparently not thinking straight and when I put the colonized substrate together with the casing, I just mixed it all together. I did not put a layer of verm/peat on the bottom, then colonized sub, then top with casing...I broke up the (mad bag) sub and just mixed it all up I was just sitting here and realized the mistake I made, crap. Will it work alright or did I screw it up - is it only used to cover fully colonized sub and cakes?? What should I do, omc?
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mushrume man
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#18993763 - 10/18/13 12:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Your 50/50 casing should only go on top 1/4 inch deep after bulk is colonized fully. Mixing your colonized grain in should still work but your missing out on some nutes you could have used if you'd mixed in a bulk substrate, then cased when colonized.
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george castanza
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#18995580 - 10/18/13 01:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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you should be ok, the important thing is not to disturb it for 10 days or so while it colonizes.
if it colonizes ok, it should fruit out just fine.
-------------------- KRAMER CAKES


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tripluv
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sweet music to my ears from a TC!
I also have a little bit of hpoo monotub sub. Should I mix it into the casing as well or just leave it be since its already been sitting undisturbed for a day now?
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Stromrider
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#18995729 - 10/18/13 01:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'd leave it alone
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
#18995739 - 10/18/13 01:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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psilly, i mean strom, whats up! good to hear from you again. I will do just that and cross my fingers and toes
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Stromrider
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#18995748 - 10/18/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey dude
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
#19004134 - 10/20/13 02:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Found this baby on craigslist for $40, used twice.

Hopefully I get some fruits! Still no pins on my cakes that I birthed Wed morning, but they look healthy. Thinking my monotub is going to fruiting conditions today, but I havent checked it yet cause my Patriots are busy whooping up on the Jets. Also, think I'm gonna case another 2 mad bags, but do it right this time. Pasteurized some more 50/50+ last night, so ready to go. Leaving just one mad bag to see how long it actually takes to fruit in vitro.
Oh ya, I also got a 4' 6500k light setup from walmart for under $20 to light up my closet! I had my cakes in front of my window, but its been overcast for a week so I decided to change it up.
just looks dark from the angle of that shot
Some of the cakes were in contact with the perlite, which may have something to do with the delay in pinning as they're trying to colonize the perlite.

So, I put another rack underneath and the cakes are no longer in contact with the perlite.

I ended up checking my tub while writing this...
 the 3 uncolonized patches are where I filled in some decent sized valleys 2 days ago - shouldn't they have colonized by now?
Are the bright white patches any worry? Or are they knotting?

Should I put into fruiting conditions?
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Stromrider
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#19004260 - 10/20/13 02:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Looking good man! You could let it colonize a couple more days
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
#19004309 - 10/20/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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sounds bueno!
no more red rocket?
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Stromrider
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#19004604 - 10/20/13 04:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Maybe later
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
#19004738 - 10/20/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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not really sure how to take that
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Stromrider
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#19004894 - 10/20/13 05:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
#19035079 - 10/26/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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sterilized my first grain jars last night and when I checked them today, it looks like a good bit of the grains are not so hydrated anymore. Also, I can see a few burst grains. I used polyfill thru a hole in the lid and followed RR's LGM grain prep. Whaddya think?

got some cakes pinning pretty good
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#19039473 - 10/27/13 06:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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this cluster grew a good 2 days before the any pins formed on the cake in the second pic, yet this cluster doesnt seem to have grown any more. any thoughts why?


and, yes, I'm wicked excited about all the growth
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Stromrider
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#19039584 - 10/27/13 07:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Your grains look good to me 
The cakes look pretty sweet too
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#19040779 - 10/27/13 01:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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the casings I screwed up and mixed together colonized just fine! Untouched for 10 days til today
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#19051096 - 10/29/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Now this is fun! Harvested 2nd cake today 
 
mad bag producing!

Why are my cakes producing such small shroomies?? The fruits on the left are from the bags and the ones on the right are from the cakes - same syringe
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#19051986 - 10/29/13 01:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Also, I want to dunk my cakes that have been harvested after giving them a couple days...If they have a bunch of pins, do I just leave the pins and dunk the pins too? Or should I just leave them in the SGFC and keep misting? Or brush the pins off and dunk?
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cronicr



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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#19052118 - 10/29/13 02:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Leave the pins there fine to dunk, the smaller fruits is mostly just genetics and available moisture. Great job
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: cronicr]
#19052202 - 10/29/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks a bunch cronicr!
p.s. your pic isnt working
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#19052207 - 10/29/13 02:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Tablets acting funny, never put a pic lol.
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: cronicr]
#19054887 - 10/29/13 11:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Stromrider
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#19055251 - 10/30/13 12:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Looking good tripluv
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
#19057372 - 10/30/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Would these have grown much bigger if I had let them go for another 2 days or would they have just opened up and dropped spores at the same size?
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cronicr



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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
#19057441 - 10/30/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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They would have stretched but its like blowing up a balloon, its just water weight as fruits grow through cellular expansion
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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tripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: cronicr]
#19094798 - 11/06/13 10:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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First monotub about ready for first harvest! 
  
I also got a holiday special from a great sponsor, so I decided to give agar a go with some MS of PR cube and Pan Cam. I noc'd up petris 4 days ago on 11-2 and still am not seeing any growth. I also did a couple of petris with pins and haven't seen any growth from those either...? I pushed the syringe until a small amount of liquid was on the syringe (less than a drop) and dragged across agar - and after having shaken the syringe very well for about 5 minutes - the pan cam syringe had a glob of spores at one end that seemed difficult to break up and would clump back up after sitting for little time. I also noc'd up some pint and a half grain jars with 2 drops each of cube MS on the 10-29 and not seeing any growth in those. Also noc'd up some 1lb rye berry spawn bags on 11-2 with 5 drops (~1cc?) each of pan cam MS and no growth yet on those. My house stays about 67-68deg and has been dipping lower during the night. I fruited my monotub on 10-22 and looks like my first harvest will be today and tomorrow as I want to make my first spore prints and clone some from my mono. I'm not too worried yet about the lack of growth as I believe everything I've grown so far has been on the late end of normal times. Just hope the low temps and my attention to sterile technique keep the contams away!

 This one is pan cam (today 11-6) and you can see where I dragged the syringe tip.
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