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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: Cactilove]
    #18941080 - 10/06/13 04:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Chi (qi) is magic by its definition. It has to do with a mysterious "life force" which cannot be measured by any instrument, cannot be contained by any container, and cannot even be defined in any meaningful way or in any way that allows it to be measured or tested.

An apropos quote from the Wiki:

Quote:

Elements of the qi concept can also be found in Western popular culture, for example "The Force" in Star Wars.




If chi is simply the ability to do shit that your body does all the time anyway, like making goosebumps, then it's neither special nor worthy of a special name any more than growing hair, blinking your eyes, or farting are.

Now, when the OP posts a video of him pushing over a lamp without physical contact using his goosebumps or whatever, then I'll sit up and listen. I'll also make him my standard bullshit killer by way of me offering to pay to fly him down to Fort Lauderdale, put him up at the best oceanfront hotel on Miami Beach, feed him, and drive him around for the JREF Million Dollar Challenge.

Not surprisingly, that offer has been on the table for over a decade now. Amazingly, with nothing to lose and a free Florida vacation plus a million bucks on the line, not one single bullshitter has ever so much as sent in the JREF application, let alone take me up on the offer.

NEXT!


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: Diploid]
    #18941257 - 10/06/13 04:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Un measureable isn't equivalent to  magic, otherwise U.V. light was magical.

Besides, I just measured the chi via piloerection.

You got to see it with your own two eyes!

If you think it's a trick your more than welcome to come see me.

(P.S. Randi isn't a legitimate researcher. He's a publicity fiend on a materialistic crusade, proselytizing as do many fanatics.)

:bye:


Edited by teknix (10/06/13 05:05 PM)


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OfflineSse
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18941330 - 10/06/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know anything about chi or it's meaning but I thought of something to compare to you willfully inducing a bodily reaction.

Would a person inducing tears by will be evidence of chi?


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"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18941341 - 10/06/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The hypothesis is this:

Chi, or prana, can be measured through willful piloerection.

:heytherebadboy:


Edited by teknix (10/06/13 05:37 PM)


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OfflineSse
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18941365 - 10/06/13 05:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

what about a regular erection?


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: Sse]
    #18941451 - 10/06/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What do you think?


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OfflineSse
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18941514 - 10/06/13 05:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not sure what qi is exactly, or what a demonstration of qi would be. Is it just life force, life energy? The energy that flows through everyone and everything? Using qi to type this now?

I guess everything living(maybe not living too?) would be an example of qi?... then to begin mastering qi you could then use/manipulate certain energies by will? I think I read where you said infinite love and keeping your core body temp up by will is also by qi? If that's the case then I think the core body temp thing would be a better example since scientists have tested that through meditation and proven it.

Unless I'm confused, inducing tears by will, or being able to cause an erection without stimuli could also be examples of willful use of qi?


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (10/06/13 06:02 PM)


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InvisibleCactilove
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: Diploid]
    #18942284 - 10/06/13 08:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Chi (qi) is magic by its definition. It has to do with a mysterious "life force" which cannot be measured by any instrument, cannot be contained by any container, and cannot even be defined in any meaningful way or in any way that allows it to be measured or tested.




I suppose so. Op says it may not be, but it sure sounds like it.


--------------------
Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: Cactilove]
    #18942649 - 10/06/13 10:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Chi and prana, have many forms, from the subtle energies to the less subtle ones.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: Diploid]
    #18942662 - 10/06/13 10:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Chi (qi) is magic by its definition. It has to do with a mysterious "life force" which cannot be measured by any instrument, cannot be contained by any container, and cannot even be defined in any meaningful way or in any way that allows it to be measured or tested.





Where you get your definitions from?

(Let me guess, you made it up)

Funny how you're now an expert on something you don't even think exists.

:lol:

Do you really know it is not measureable (even indirectly) or are you believing what someone told you?

I would agree that it isn't seeming directly measurable, but indirectly measureable is another story.

If it has effects, and those effects are measureable then it is indirectly measureable, as you have evidence of.


Edited by teknix (10/06/13 10:50 PM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18942736 - 10/06/13 10:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Which indirect evidence is how and why we even consider "Dark Matter" seriously:

Quote:


Non-baryonic, or β€œdark”, matter is believed to be a major component of the total mass budget of the universe. We review the candidates for particle dark matter and discuss the prospects for direct detection (via interaction of dark matter particles with laboratory detectors) and indirect detection (via observations of the products of dark matter self-annihilations), focusing in particular on the Galactic center, which is among the most promising targets for indirect detection studies. The gravitational potential at the Galactic center is dominated by stars and by the supermassive black hole, and the dark matter distribution is expected to evolve on sub-parsec scales due to interaction with these components. We discuss the dominant interaction mechanisms and show how they can be used to rule out certain extreme models for the dark matter distribution, thus increasing the information that can be gleaned from indirect detection searches.
http://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/0504422.pdf





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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18942793 - 10/06/13 11:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Another interesting factoid, is by doing this, I am becoming "bigger", by increasing the surface area of the body.


:cool:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18942831 - 10/06/13 11:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

This was a benefit to animals with fur. It allowed them to look bigger in the face of threats from other animals. It makes their hair stand up.  You can see this in dogs and cats everyday.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: Icelander]
    #18942847 - 10/06/13 11:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

True, maybe that's why the Egyptians loved cats so much?

It is my personal belief that all of these practices originated from the same place so who knows.

However this is different subjectively, because there is a flowing of energy, and we don't know if a cat is doing it of it's own free will or if it is just a programmed reaction, which is the main determining factor. The difference objectively seems to be between autonomous and manual control.

Maybe cats have chi as well, maybe all animals do. But for some reason I think it is involuntary in a cat, just as fear can give people goose bumps involuntarily. Maybe they all have free-will as well.

:shrug:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18943546 - 10/07/13 06:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Goose bumps, also called goose flesh, goose pimples, the medical term cutis anserina, are the bumps on a person's skin at the base of body hairs which may involuntarily develop when a person is cold or experiences strong emotions such as fear, nostalgia, pleasure, euphoria, awe, admiration and sexual arousal.[1]
The formation of goose bumps in humans under stress is a vestigial reflex[2]; its function in human ancestors was to raise the body's hair, making the ancestor appear larger and scaring off predators. The reflex of producing goose bumps is known as arasing, piloerection, or the pilomotor reflex. It occurs in many mammals besides humans; a prominent example is porcupines, which raise their quills when threatened, or sea otters when they encounter sharks or other predators.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: Icelander]
    #18944228 - 10/07/13 11:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, again the key word is "Involuntary".

Did you know that voluntary and involuntary are different?


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Offlineomegafaust
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18944289 - 10/07/13 11:20 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Op your claim is ridiculous.  I can give myself goosebumps too.  in fact I can isolate where I get them, at least in the sense of left or right arm or left or right pectoral. 

Its not chi!  Guess what other autonomous bofily functions some people can control, like heartbeat.  people can alter the speed and even stop their hearts.  this is not ch.

Some people can even regulate their body temperature.  this is not chi.  this is mastery of ones own body and is completely explainable by science which is itself proof that it is not chi.


--------------------
The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself.  All you are is a thought.


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18944296 - 10/07/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

That doesn't mean controlling those functions is supernatural, just interesting.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." β€”Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18944300 - 10/07/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Don't you expect the world to circle around you in awe based on your self-proclaimed powers beyond nature?

If it was supernatural, your video would be viral and scientists from all over the world speechless by now.

Wannabe at best. :shrug:


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18944422 - 10/07/13 11:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Where you get your definitions from? (Let me guess, you made it up)

I got it from looking at the same bullshit chi claims going back decades and from the Wiki.

Funny how you're now an expert on something you don't even think exists.

Irrelevant. Do you have a rebuttal to what I posted or is a personal attack the best you got?

I have yet to see a single, verifiable measurement of chi despite an extensive search over many years. The best I've ever found is endless streams of the same non-evidence crap you posted in the OP and a shitload of hot air. Nary a single controlled demonstration of someone simply knocking over a lamp with chi.

Meanwhile ONE SINGLE DEMONSTRATION in a proper controlled experiment would cinch it and convince the skeptics. A simple demonstration at JREF (which I notice you have like so many before you also refused to perform despite my offer to cover all your expenses) is all that is required. But instead of doing this simple demo and taking a free Florida vacation here you are with page after page of cheap talk and stoopid videos of an ordinary physiological function furry mammals have been doing for millions of years.

How about that, eh?

I would agree that it isn't seeming directly measurable, but indirectly measureable is another story.

Blah blah blah. :blah:

The JREF million bucks and my offer remain on the table.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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