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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: Rose]
    #18939895 - 10/06/13 11:51 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
That is deep, but if you will pardon me, it is also, from an outside perspective, especially from someone who has never tripped's perspective, almost entirely meaningless.

They show you who you really are?

So does a mirror.

And society may have a different opinion.

Are you who you think you are? Who society thinks you are? What a mirror shows you? What mushrooms "tell" you? Who are you really? How on Earth do you know the talking mushrooms are right?

If mushrooms actually told me things, like, "Hey Cerv, your fly's down." people would think I was insane. And they, not the mushrooms, would likely be correct.




Believe me as someone who was severely depressed it is not meaningless. If your trips don't have anything to offer then I assume you're a lucky fellow. You can't heal wounds that don't exist. As for us others I have yet to find anything more meaningful in my life. Before my experiences I mean. My life has significantly changed as a result


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OfflineMitchyDee
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #18940001 - 10/06/13 12:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

My VERY little psychedelic experience has taught me the importance of relaxation and meditation, which I've integrated into my every day life, and I'd like to think changed me for the better.


--------------------
Aspiring psychonaut :mushroom2:


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #18941011 - 10/06/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JacksonMetaller said:
Quote:

Cervantes said:
That is deep, but if you will pardon me, it is also, from an outside perspective, especially from someone who has never tripped's perspective, almost entirely meaningless.

They show you who you really are?

So does a mirror.

And society may have a different opinion.

Are you who you think you are? Who society thinks you are? What a mirror shows you? What mushrooms "tell" you? Who are you really? How on Earth do you know the talking mushrooms are right?

If mushrooms actually told me things, like, "Hey Cerv, your fly's down." people would think I was insane. And they, not the mushrooms, would likely be correct.




Believe me as someone who was severely depressed it is not meaningless. If your trips don't have anything to offer then I assume you're a lucky fellow. You can't heal wounds that don't exist. As for us others I have yet to find anything more meaningful in my life. Before my experiences I mean. My life has significantly changed as a result




Believe me, I have felt the same way as you. I am in part playing Devil's advocate here. Why? Because many of the posts in this thread are vague and only serve as a way for the poster to pat themself on the back... they do not express anything that may actually help the OP in any tangible way.

As I have stated before, depression is a tricky issue since side effects of psychedelics can actually make a person more withdrawn and depressed. You and I have had good results but many others have not. I have suffered the results of depersonalization after tripping a lot in a short span of time.

The OP intends to use psychedelics as a means of self medication for depression. The OP plans on doing this alone. The OP is already struggling with depersonalization and other anti social issues.

It seems irresponsible to me as a Moderator, to allow everyone to tell the OP the great things about tripping without mentioning the risks involved and the potential side effects.

If you look at the adverse effects poll that is stickied to the top of this forum you will see that most trippers have dealt with side effects of tripping at one time or another.

Most people who post in this forum are fans of psychedelics. Great... but that makes it easy to preach to the choir and to forget to mention to newbies how psychedelics are serious, mind-altering substances. They are neither toys, nor are they a miracle cure for everybody who takes them.

I am clearly a fan of psychedelics. I just think a newbie deserves a full picture.

Statements like, "Psychedelics tell me how the world works." are worthless. They explain nothing.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: Rose]
    #18942051 - 10/06/13 07:45 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Believe me, I have felt the same way as you. I am in part playing Devil's advocate here. Why? Because many of the posts in this thread are vague and only serve as a way for the poster to pat themself on the back... they do not express anything that may actually help the OP in any tangible way.

As I have stated before, depression is a tricky issue since side effects of psychedelics can actually make a person more withdrawn and depressed. You and I have had good results but many others have not. I have suffered the results of depersonalization after tripping a lot in a short span of time.

The OP intends to use psychedelics as a means of self medication for depression. The OP plans on doing this alone. The OP is already struggling with depersonalization and other anti social issues.

It seems irresponsible to me as a Moderator, to allow everyone to tell the OP the great things about tripping without mentioning the risks involved and the potential side effects.

If you look at the adverse effects poll that is stickied to the top of this forum you will see that most trippers have dealt with side effects of tripping at one time or another.

Most people who post in this forum are fans of psychedelics. Great... but that makes it easy to preach to the choir and to forget to mention to newbies how psychedelics are serious, mind-altering substances. They are neither toys, nor are they a miracle cure for everybody who takes them.

I am clearly a fan of psychedelics. I just think a newbie deserves a full picture.

Statements like, "Psychedelics tell me how the world works." are worthless. They explain nothing.




True, i always am a fan of mentioning risks... however, i've been growing to understand lately that what you get out of psychedelics is exactly what you allow yourself to get. That's a tough concept to western thought where the line between good and bad outcomes is perceived to be very fine... But I think when you allow yourself to work with the chemical in a positive way you don't run a significant amount of risks. And by positive way I don't mean that every trip is a fun ride...

For example... My first time with ayahuasca I had a nightmare of a trip. Started feeding skeptical thoughts, basically lost my shit and made a total fool out of myself. Had I been affected with DP or HPPD or something I probably would have viewed it in an extremely negative light and been full of regret. My second experience, i went in with the attitude of the group. I was in for a "healing" experience and ayahuasca was going to be my "guide". This trip was equally difficult and frightening. However, the simple change in attitude revealed a whole new working of the drug. It wasn't here to show me pretty colors or let me have a fun time. It was here to teach me how to deal with hard situations. How to learn acceptance and let go of my fears. Ride the waves whenever they come, not be crushed by them. Had I come out with HPPD or DP I probably would have viewed that in an intensely different light. As less of a burden, and more of a continuation of that test of self-strength. That's the mentality a lot of these shamans have and why negative effects of psychedelics in their culture are not perceived as much as they are in our culture. It's a simple matter of attitude that changes your perspective on any given situation in life.

So if you want more specifics on to how they have improved my life, there is one of them. For the first time in my life I could see my own strength. I understood fully that I had it in me to overcome the pains of any hardship. Al the self-doubt i had lived in for my entire life was disproved in a single night.

As for "showing me how the universe works." Yes... I've gotten that too. But how well do you expect anyone to explain that? The feeling is more complex than language can tend to. I can do my best, but it's so hard to put it in words that others can relate to because it's my own interpretation of an extremely broad phenomena that i characterize and describe based on the things that personally relate to me. But it's that feeling of oneness. That all things are involved in a highly complex network of relationships that functions no differently than the relationships that make up an organism. That all parts are equally important by their relationships, and equally unimportant by the totality of their existence. And i can spew out metaphors all day, and so can everyone on this site. We can bitch and disagree about who's metaphors are more accurate until we come to that "aha!" moment where we realize we're talking about the same thing and bust out laughing at the foolishness of our discord... Oh that magic feeling.

Everyone can have their own views but i won't have anyone tell me that's meaningless, as it brought a little spark to my life that i never had.


Edited by JacksonMetaller (10/06/13 07:46 PM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: JacksonMetaller] * 1
    #18942153 - 10/06/13 08:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

That is kind of what I mean.

They don't teach you how the universe works. Not necessarily. But you might discover a way the universe COULD work.

Talking like you know the answers is bullshit.

I have tripped hundreds of times. I haven't tripped in over five years.

The depression comes back. The questions return.

It proves nothing you couldn't prove yourself without them.

You don't need them to live. You don't need them to learn. You don't need them to teach.

But they are rather great, for those with an inner shamanistic streak.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineMeinDarkEye
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: Rose] * 1
    #18942189 - 10/06/13 08:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What is the place where the student is empowered?
A thousand days chopping wood, but burning it all in a single day.


--------------------
Why can't you be normal!
What you mean to say is, Average.

What's the pride in country if it robs a man of will?
What's the pride in manhood if a man will rape and kill?
What's the pride in killing if the dead will rise again?
Ah, but there's a pride in knowing the enemies within.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: MeinDarkEye]
    #18942198 - 10/06/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well spake!


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: Rose]
    #18942204 - 10/06/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
That is kind of what I mean.

They don't teach you how the universe works. Not necessarily. But you might discover a way the universe COULD work.

Talking like you know the answers is bullshit.

I have tripped hundreds of times. I haven't tripped in over five years.

The depression comes back. The questions return.

It proves nothing you couldn't prove yourself without them.

You don't need them to live. You don't need them to learn. You don't need them to teach.

But they are rather great, for those with an inner shamanistic streak.




Sure, it's not all the answers in a bucket waiting to be handed to you. It's metaphorical, you apply it to what you know, but it gives you a broader perspective and a level of clarity that helps the process. It's not the magic cure. But it's the damn best thing i've ever found in that regard. Perhaps it's time to end that 5 year streak if the depression is coming back. Unless of course you're looking towards alternative methods, by all means. But just because I have to hit the reset button more than once doesn't make that button worthless, just not perfect.


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InvisibleMagicalOrangutan
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #18942231 - 10/06/13 08:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Psychedelics don't directly or inherently do shit for you psychologically. They can only make you look at things from different perspectives on the experience (which I from now on refuse to call a "trip" because that ain't truly the right word for it), and you can remember and adopt these new perspectives later on


--------------------
On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze

Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky
We all need more love, and mainly less hate
Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye
That makes the heart's eye cry
Locked deep away in the skies of our minds

It's all in the mind


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: JacksonMetaller] * 1
    #18942237 - 10/06/13 08:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Again, I think we kinda' agree.

Distance has allowed me to realize that the person who trips deserves more credit, and the substance they use deserves less.

Any human is capable of learning what they may discover during a trip, even if they never trip.

Those who credit the mushroom, acid, DMT... whatever... may be missing the forest for the trees.

Give yourself some credit.

Most trippers realize they are to blame for their own faults, but they credit the substance instead of themself for their success. Why? Ego loss, and all that.

Well? Let me tell you a secret. Ego is not a bad thing. It is nice to take a vacation from your ego from time to time, but ego keeps you social and human. Ego is not all that bad. Not in an ego driven world. Not if you understand you can also live without it. Then ego becomes a tool, instead of you being a tool for your ego.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineMisterSandman
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: Rose]
    #18942257 - 10/06/13 08:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You made some really good points on the first page:thumbup:

I'd like to throw a few things in as well.

Psychedelics can be a seriously double edged sword when it comes to treating depression in my personal experience anyway. I had a series of mushrooms trips a few years back that sent me into complete existential despair for a very very long time, nothing mattered, life was pointless, I seriously contemplated suicide a handful of times. Every trip would throw me deeper down the hole. I ended up managing to pull myself out of it with a little positive thought and a rather large dose of LSD. In hindsight that whole thing could have backfired horribly. Just be aware, these are not toys, they are not inherently good or bad, they just are, they can build you up but they can also completely obliterate you.

I think psychedelics can definitely positively impact your life but remember at the end of the day it isn't the drug that has the answers, it is you! Psychs simply show you the way, it is up to you to do the heavy lifting.

Oh yeah and Zen Buddhism is the cats pajamas. I'm rereading "The Book" by Alan Watts right now :mindblown:


--------------------


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: MisterSandman]
    #18942292 - 10/06/13 08:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Watts is another great teacher.

Another imperfect person with great things to teach.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineMisterSandman
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: Rose]
    #18942336 - 10/06/13 08:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Watts is another great teacher.

Another imperfect person with great things to teach.




:nodofunderstanding:

Indeed. I love the elements of humor in Zen Buddhism, It has really helped me not take myself too seriously.


--------------------


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OfflinepsilocybinjunkieM
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: NotLiving]
    #18942384 - 10/06/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

NotLiving said:
Anyone here got a real nice psychedelic trip that has changed their life on everything while sober?

Does tripping make you sensitive to emotions?

Do you get emotions if you're emotionless? Do you get creative? Do your senses of smell and taste better? Do you ever feel like the emotions are a bit TOO intense (but in a good way)?

Has psychedelics ever inspired you or made you motivated to do what you wanted to do in your life (progress to your goals)?



Well the answer to these is YES, but...
They can also lie and deceive you, and at some point you will end up picking yourself apart during a trip (mindfuck, being nonsensically over critical). So you need to be mindful of that and consider if you can handle that sort of thing, because it will happen.

The emotions can certainly be too intense, but you can reach sublime levels of joy as well, with the over intensity of good emotions. There is also terrifyingly negative thoughts of doom that can and do occur in some trips, you will need to be able to shake that off as a bad trip and quickly move on. You will gain some true introspection which you should write down, because it fades after the trips, in most cases. It is entirely up to the individual what he takes from the experience, but it is important not to be deceived by overly negative thoughts that can occur and realize it is a powerful mind altering drug you are on.

Basically it isn't a quick fix, but it can have positive benefits if you are truly looking to make changes, on the actual problems you discover.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: Rose] * 1
    #18942413 - 10/06/13 09:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Again, I think we kinda' agree.

Distance has allowed me to realize that the person who trips deserves more credit, and the substance they use deserves less.

Any human is capable of learning what they may discover during a trip, even if they never trip.

Those who credit the mushroom, acid, DMT... whatever... may be missing the forest for the trees.

Give yourself some credit.

Most trippers realize they are to blame for their own faults, but they credit the substance instead of themself for their success. Why? Ego loss, and all that.

Well? Let me tell you a secret. Ego is not a bad thing. It is nice to take a vacation from your ego from time to time, but ego keeps you social and human. Ego is not all that bad. Not in an ego driven world. Not if you understand you can also live without it. Then ego becomes a tool, instead of you being a tool for your ego.




Yeah, i definitely agree on that. The stuff that most people come out with from a "profound" psychedelic experience isn't necessarily revolutionary in that its only found in psychedelic experiences. Plenty of people come to the same conclusions without their use, but they are certainly catalysts to that process. But that doesn't stop the drug from having changed my life. Perhaps eventually I would have stumbled upon the same perspective, but it was given to me in a time of need where i wouldn't have had the discipline to discover that on my own.

The way I see a trip is that... It is life condensed into a few hours of experience. You experience the highs and the lows and the rounds and rounds. You lose inner strength, you find inner strength. You build structures and break down structures. And on and on. No different than life itself, but you leave with a lifetime of understanding after just a few hours, allowing you to spend the rest of real life growing from that experience.

And agreed again, the ego is not a bad thing... It just needs to be kept in perspective. It's nice to maintain a level of individuality and uniqueness that is "you" while also remembering that all others are doing just as you are in their own way.


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InvisibleMagicalOrangutan
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #18942474 - 10/06/13 09:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Actually the reason trippers attribute psychedelics to positive things and themselves to negative things is because they're typical drug seekers who wanna convince themselves that they have the magic chemical key to awesomeness, and that it does wonders and nothing negative. It's not ego loss because they're usually just egotistical self centered cunts just like every goddamn one else


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OfflineUniverse
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: Rose] * 1
    #18942659 - 10/06/13 10:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:

Talking like you know the answers is bullshit. ....




I went through a phase very early on where I really wanted to know the answer. I finally found it. The real answer is beyond human comprehension. I think that a big part of why the psychedelic experience is so fascinating is because things are revealed that our minds are not evolved enough to understand. The  answer is to realize it and accept it.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: Universe]
    #18942904 - 10/06/13 11:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

That, to my brain, is a much better answer than the difinitive answers others have given within this thread.

Great post!


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlinefightknightx
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: Rose]
    #18943217 - 10/07/13 02:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I've had a few trips where it would change my lifestyle for a short amount of time. Usually, it'd be something that would take me in a direction that I couldn't control or a direction that would really ruin my life or who I was, but after the trip, I turned it around. My personal experiences have been only short term changes. Still waiting for that one good trip to change my life forever.


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OfflineMoonSpirit
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Re: Have any psychedelics changed your life for the better? [Re: fightknightx]
    #18943303 - 10/07/13 03:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Personally, they helped with my Clinical Depression of 7 years. I was in a mental ward twice for suicide attempts at 18, and attempted numerous other times (just I wasn't caught then). Then I started smoking weed and rolling on MDMA and my whole mindset kind of changed. I appreciated myself and my world. I calmed down, but still my depression was there, just dimmed down a bit.

Then I tripped on shrooms a few months ago, and my depression has literally vanished since. I'm still amazed that it did that to me. I want to tell everyone and the world about it, but people are too close-minded. As someone who was against drugs her whole life, in the end, drugs ended up saving me. If it weren't for weed and molly, I'd definitely be dead already. If it weren't for shrooms, my depression would still be lingering. And if it weren't for salvia, I'd still be submissive and let people walk over me.

:earth:  :sporedrop:  :jah:  :chillpill:  :rocket:


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