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OfflineSpacerific
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Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression
    #18941434 - 10/06/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The link to the main video is at the bottom of the post. However since it's a freaking 100+ minutes long, here's the much shorter TED Talk to get you started:

Depression is a disease of civilization



The guy compares US / Western lifestyle with tribal living, and also goes over some things we can do and take, to get out of depression.

And here's the main link for the long lecture: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression. You can totally skip the first 8:30 mins, it's just a long intro story.

If you're fit, exercising, socializing and managing your information overload, living pretty zen, you don't need to see any of these. If you're somewhat of a lonely couch potato, glued to your computer and/or smartphone or eating the SAD, it might become quite relevant. Enjoy :biggrin:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific] * 1
    #18943308 - 10/07/13 03:35 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Ok and a few more details to get things going:

- Omega 3 fatty acids. We're supposed to get a certain ratio of Omega 6 (inflammatory) and Omega 3 (anti-inflammatory) in our diet. About 1:1 to 2:1. The Standard American Diet has about a 17:1 ratio, on the inflammatory side, due to all the grains, grain-fed beef etc.

- EPA is the main kind of Omega 3 that has anti-depressive properties, and we'd need about 1,000 - 2,000 mg of EPA a day, for an anti-depressive dose. This means that it's not enough to just "Take Omega 3" pills, because they're not created equal. You have to do the math regarding the EPA specifically, and might need to take 2 to 6 or more pills a day, to reach the required dose. For a 1,000 mg pill of Omega 3, only 360 mg might be EPA, so you need 3 daily at a minimum. Most cheap Omega 3 pills have less than that, so you need to check the box specifically for this. EPA.

- light exposure, as in bright light outdoors. big big helper, can only be replaced with specific solutions to replicate this indoors during winter, not with regular lighting. You need 10,000 lux for this to work, far far above normal lights. Failure to expose to this kind of light regularly will confuse your circadian rhythms, disrupt sleep patterns, starting a cascade of other issues.

- blue shifted light from a computer monitor will interfere with your ability to sleep for about 45 minutes after use, if used in the evening. to avoid this, get f.lux (free app) and this will red-shift your computer screen during nights and evenings

- face time, actual physical proximity to peers and loved ones stops our stress response, worries and ruminations. Facebook and other types of screen and phone time, don't do this. There's no gadget, pill or gimmick that will replace actual physical proximity to other humans, actual physical contact. When depressed, we tend to withdraw and avoid this, which leads to a downward spiral.

- exercise of course, even a little outdoors walking does better than taking Xanax and other pills. Study data to show how much better by comparison, etc.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


Edited by Spacerific (10/07/13 03:45 AM)


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific]
    #18943706 - 10/07/13 07:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I've read a girlfriend and abstaining from drug misuse can cure a lot of mental illness'


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Konyap]
    #18945229 - 10/07/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Of course. Gf = proximity, socializing, physical "exercise", probably going out and trying new things as well. Definitely better than hanging out alone at home.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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Offlinebrokentv
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific]
    #18947255 - 10/07/13 10:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I agree, hanging out at home to much can be very unhealthy.


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: brokentv]
    #18999670 - 10/19/13 01:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

So I've started actually applying this, for about 10 days now I'm getting my 1000 mg of EPA every day. That's 6 pills of Omega 3 daily, 2 with each meal. Compared 7-8 boxes and did the math, until I found the right box to buy. Strangely enough it wasn't a large box of 120, it was one of just 30 pills, 18% EPA.

Also taking 4-6 spirulina pills as well, just for good measure. Can't hurt, that's for sure :biggrin:

I'm also getting outside without sunglasses, which is something I haven't done in years, as Salvia gave me this mild light aversion, I prefer to avoid bright lights. However I prefer to not be depressed even more, so now I'm getting my sunlight, annoying as it is.

And socializing more. And moving more. Focusing on stuff that moves the lymph, to help detox the body. 

I do feel a slight improvement, like there's something new thrown into the mix, that's basically got my back. Like if shit hit the fan in any way, I wouldn't have to take all of the shitstorm, there's some amount of cavalry at the ready in a way. That's the feeling I get. Wasn't really there before I saw the video and started this stuff. Not sure how much of it is placebo, but then again I don't really care. Placebo that works is way way better than depression and apathy.

I'll go through this box of 30 Omega 3 pills and probably another one, and if it's all stable I'll get something more bulk from the net. The extra productivity easily pays for it. Very well worth the money to anybody that's even mildly depressed. Anyway treating this all as a stepping stone towards getting out more and starting new relationships. Emotional health comes from health and skin contact, not pills. If one spends too much time alone there's no magic pills that will prevent depression/apathy. But this stuff seems to provide an energy boost to kick start those behavior changes.

Kudos to the people who did the studies and made the videos available :thumbup:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific]
    #19042023 - 10/27/13 06:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Update: didn't buy another Omega 3 box once the last one ran out (maybe a week ago?), discontinued the daily get-some-sunshine habit, and now I feel like complete utter crap of the lowest worthless order. Nothing changed externally, but my emotional state is completely fucked.

Needless to say tomorrow I'm raiding the drugstore for all the Omega 3 pills they have :lol:

If anybody else is feeling down, do try this thing out, you should see improvements within the week. 1000+ mg of EPA daily.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific]
    #19050488 - 10/29/13 05:34 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Update. And someone drop me a hint if I'm getting spammy with this thread, I can always take it to a journal or something. I'm sharing my experience as depression seems to be a big problem for quite a few members, and if any of this stuff helps even half the time, I'd want to know about it.

So update. Got the Omega 3, and am back flowing pretty well again. Hard to tell if it's the Omega working, or placebo, or other things in RL. But I definitely got much more restful sleep, got up in a good mood, got stuff done and I'm starting to feel that vibe of "someone has my back" all over again. Failures and delays seem to not be such a big deal any more, whereas before they would simply fill my screen and lead to endless worry and inner drama.

Taking it religiously from now on, back in a week or so with more news. If anybody's feeling shitty and reading this, do give it a try. A week's supply of Omega 3 (30 pills) costs as much as a pack of smokes. Even if it doesn't lift your mood, it's still good for your heart and brain and all that.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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Offlinec0ntent_in_spac3
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific]
    #19050626 - 10/29/13 06:29 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Awesome thread man with good information!


I'm a firm believer in life-style changes and healthy nutrition to help if not eliminate ANY mental disorder at least alleviate it pretty much to nothing


That's why I have a hard time listening to ur typical doctor.. They have correct information on things but not enough, they are more quick to throw u to the wolves (pills) before they help u experiment with things like this first.. ur basic doc was never taught in debth enough about healing with nutrition ect.. they mostly just know prescription pills with crazy side effects which is why I don't see doctors


But keep updatin dude! I've dabbled with krill oil awhile back but didn't notice much, I'd like to see if it holds up for u and if u notice more changes. Good luck man!


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The ego tries to prove that we cannot change, undermining our ability to transcend obstacles


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: c0ntent_in_spac3] * 1
    #19050699 - 10/29/13 06:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I deal with significant seasonal depression. No getting around the moody. I have simply stopped drinking, getting high, consuming simple sugars, stopped consuming simple carbs, and significantly lightened dairy consumption.

Huge impact.

I eat olive oil cooked frozen salmon most days and tuna fried in olive oil. Huge difference.

Some people really do need antidepressants though. Don't forget some of us are wired shitty.


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OfflineKGB Is Go
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific] * 1
    #19052863 - 10/29/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Watched these (both TED talks + the long lecture) yesterday. Great information. Mostly common sense stuff (which is great - not trying to downplay it). I'm guilty of being too sedentary and spending too much time in front of a screen. (Also not socialising enough - but I enjoy solitude too much.)

I can definitely confirm every one of these approaches helps with health and mood. The most significant habit I've recently incorporated is playing casual Ultimate Frisbee. It's great exercise, goal-oriented, social, and you get plenty of Sun playing it. I noticed mood lift after my first time playing.

Beyond this, I started taking fish oil (640mg EPA + 460DHA/day) about a month ago. Even though the dosage is slightly low, I've definitely noticed mental and mood enhancements. I'd say it's the most obvious effect I've felt from any supplement. I'm currently looking for a more economical, yet high quality, brand so I can up my dosage to 1g EPA, or more.

I highly recommend these talks, and especially the treatment advice given, to anyone who wants to raise their mood and health in general. Thanks, Spacerific.


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"The guy went axe-happy on a trout farm, he killed 60 fish."


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Yogi1]
    #19067571 - 11/01/13 01:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yogi1 said:
I deal with significant seasonal depression. No getting around the moody. I have simply stopped drinking, getting high, consuming simple sugars, stopped consuming simple carbs, and significantly lightened dairy consumption.



Have you watched the TED Talk? Especially for SAD the man recommends one of those special light sources, it's supposed to work wonders. Since your whole family/friends etc. would benefit from it, might be worth the investment. See the talk for details and studies.


Quote:

Yogi1 said:
Some people really do need antidepressants though. Don't forget some of us are wired shitty.



They don't need antidepressants, they need a few long long Aya ceremonies. Since the pharma companies can't advertise and sell that at exorbitant prices, they get shitty antidepressants instead :rolleyes:


And a bit of an update: It's been 2-3 days since I've been taking the stuff religiously. 2x Omega 3 pills with each meal, sometimes also 2x spirulina+ganoderma pills. Haven't really counted my meals come to think of it, might be 3 or 4 a day, but certainly no food ever gets eaten without Omega 3.

Feelings and more importantly, behavior-wise, I am noticing a stable but SLOW change, back to where I was at the end of that first week. So being 3 days in feels like being halfway there, not quite all the way. It's not instant. Perhaps my initial estimate was accurate, that it takes about a week for Omega 3 levels to actually shift, balance and show some proper results.

I still have times that I feel shitty, but when I don't there's a fresh impulse to get off my ass and clean my studio, or get out and run, or stay indoors and exercise, get online and get some work done, etc. Generally the kind of activities that if maintained, will take a guy out of a rut.

I have 3 weeks' supply of Omega 3 around my house now, to make super sure I don't run out.

Also, I don't know how much placebo may have a part in this, I mean the fact is I am taking this stuff 3 times a day, it's like a repeated daily commitment that yes, I want to change improve and optimize. Even if that's the only mechanism at work here, it's still worth doing it :lol:

But I don't think it is, or it would have worked in the studies at doses lower than 1000 mg of EPA daily.

Can't wait for the extra 3 days to pass, so the good stuff fully kicks in again :dancer:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific]
    #19069293 - 11/01/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Chain tripping without time to integrate experiences shouldn't be recommended. Trust me, I've had more access to dmt than just about anyone posting on this site.

Also the light you're talking about is blue spectrum home lights, and they only are good for the early part of the day because they're sun spectrum.

I'll watch the Ted video but I highly doubt tripping to even depression is any more effective than tripping to fix aspergers.


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Yogi1]
    #19069355 - 11/01/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Doesn't have to be chain tripping. The shaman or Santo Daime people would know best, or actually the person themselves will know after their first ceremony if and when to go for another.

Smoking DMT and an Ayahuasca ceremony have almost nothing in common. Notice I said LONG ceremony, not 10-15 min light show alone in some room. And ceremony, not drinking aya alone with one's playlist. I've had issues to deal with before, I tried large shroom doses, large shroom doses with MAOI, and I still didn't feel quite right. Then I went to the Santo Daime church and got balanced again. It does help with depression. At least for a few weeks and months, depending on the environment one returns to. But the actual ceremony is needed, not just the substance alone.

For the lights please watch the video, the relevant data and studies are mentioned I believe.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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InvisibleEndure
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Yogi1]
    #19069389 - 11/01/13 11:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yogi1 said:
Chain tripping without time to integrate experiences shouldn't be recommended. Trust me, I've had more access to dmt than just about anyone posting on this site.

Also the light you're talking about is blue spectrum home lights, and they only are good for the early part of the day because they're sun spectrum.

I'll watch the Ted video but I highly doubt tripping to even depression is any more effective than tripping to fix aspergers.





whats the difference between aspergers and having a bad trip with years of heavy pot use which makes you terribly anxious and depressed all the time, n then so anxious you can't talk to people.


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Endure]
    #19069413 - 11/01/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

One was caused after years of drug use, altering the psyche and one was wired at birth.

More drug use to cope with past drug use probably isn't a place to start fixing past neuron changes.


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InvisibleEndure
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Yogi1]
    #19069460 - 11/01/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yogi1 said:
One was caused after years of drug use, altering the psyche and one was wired at birth.

More drug use to cope with past drug use probably isn't a place to start fixing past neuron changes.




okay, true, i should probably quit marijuana


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Im only aloud to post once an hour. Because 'Sell Your Soul' doesn't like me. so if I am responding to you, that means you are above of the utmost importance


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Endure]
    #19069535 - 11/01/13 11:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I hate the idea that I have to stay sober in the winter but not smoking, drinking, tripping, rolling, and holing have helped along with meditation, good nutrition, and exercise.

I quit taking my ssri and so far this season I haven't been suicidal or consistently depressed.

As for spacerific I 1000000000 percent agree about tribal support vs culture driven broken family. Looking at things as depression being external all the time is like saying all fat people are weak minded and thyroid disorders are made up.


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InvisibleEndure
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Yogi1]
    #19069784 - 11/01/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yogi1 said:
I hate the idea that I have to stay sober in the winter but not smoking, drinking, tripping, rolling, and holing have helped along with meditation, good nutrition, and exercise.

I quit taking my ssri and so far this season I haven't been suicidal or consistently depressed.

As for spacerific I 1000000000 percent agree about tribal support vs culture driven broken family. Looking at things as depression being external all the time is like saying all fat people are weak minded and thyroid disorders are made up.




its internal and external.
alot of fat people are weakminded, and alot of people feel a ton less depressed when they lose weight and get hit on.

internal could be something like, someones self sexuality causing problems and insecurity, or thoughts that haunt you
external could be an injury, could be losing a loved one, or being fat and wanting to be skinny. it can be anything thats causing 'conflict' 'disrupting the peace'

alot of time internal and external problems become connected and fuel eachother.


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Endure]
    #19069821 - 11/01/13 01:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Cant argue with that.

Endorphines, glands, and neuro wiring do matter though is my point.


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InvisibleEndure
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Yogi1]
    #19071461 - 11/01/13 06:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yogi1 said:
Cant argue with that.

Endorphines, glands, and neuro wiring do matter though is my point.




just saying,
you will have more endorphins to release when quitting drugs, and doing things that benefit you and your spirit. daily things like workin out will feel better, those release endorphins, that can range into hobbies n sports. eating healthy will help build re-new your receptors... fish oil and other good fats especially. everything will feel better if you quit when your a chronic user, might take a couple of weeks.. but if your a noob user who is used to reality then things might feel better on weed, but thats the illusion of it.

You could go to real 'therapy' and re-process thoughts/emotions you have a hard time moving on from, or getting off your mind, thats gotta be similiar to neuro wiring right? most commonly people who have forms of PTSD re-process things, these people usually have another disorder though like ocd, adhd/add, depression, GAD, and usually in the midst of it, denial, drug addiction, family problems, etc...

Most people do not have a disorder/gland problem that prevents them from losing weight or from not being depressed, which is why most people who hear these problems on tv or on the computer will go to their doctor only to get sent home disorder-free. usually its because guy A through guy Y, dont know shit about calorie maintenance/cutting, but guy-z does. guys A-guy Y have a serious case of fucking around-itus


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Im only aloud to post once an hour. Because 'Sell Your Soul' doesn't like me. so if I am responding to you, that means you are above of the utmost importance


Edited by Endure (11/01/13 06:38 PM)


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific]
    #19073601 - 11/02/13 04:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think it need be an either/or situation with pharmaceuticals vs healthy living. But without moving towards healthy living, self enhancement, and improved social life, the drugs have a limited long term effect.

The drugs may lead towards a long term solution, like a catalyst, IFF they help a person maintain some level of coping while they sort their shit out and then they get their life moving towards something better, BUT in and of themselves the drugs ought never to be seen as a cure or a solution in their own right.

Some might say its just semantics but I think it is important point because while the drugs are seen as a cure or a solution in their own right, then it kind of implies that the person need not do anything other than take the drugs. But if as a society we look at the drugs as just a bandaid in order to help some people facilitate other changes, "healing" or "learning", or whatever, then the implication is that more needs to be done than just taking the pills..


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Yogi1]
    #19073748 - 11/02/13 06:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yogi1 said:
One was caused after years of drug use, altering the psyche and one was wired at birth.

More drug use to cope with past drug use probably isn't a place to start fixing past neuron changes.



Mate you can't use "drugs" as some generic form of placeholder for EVERYTHING and expect teh convo to make sense. Does being a lonely idle pothead help with depression long term? Does a cocaine habit? Does opium? Probably not. On the other hand does a monthly peyote/aya ceremony help? IMO absolutely yes. And actually we have studies to show that it does. I haven't tried this for myself yet (wrong country to do it atm) but I highly suspect that any regular, organized, ceremony-type psychedelic tripping in a group, will go a long long way to balance you out. I don't mean drop shit alone when the fancy strikes you, I mean gather every month with such and such friends in a consistent group, go through these well designed motions (usually music, drumming, singing, etc) and benefit long term. Not at all the same as randomly dropping stuff.

Quote:

Mufungo said:
I don't think it need be an either/or situation with pharmaceuticals vs healthy living. But without moving towards healthy living, self enhancement, and improved social life, the drugs have a limited long term effect.

The drugs may lead towards a long term solution, like a catalyst, IFF they help a person maintain some level of coping while they sort their shit out and then they get their life moving towards something better, BUT in and of themselves the drugs ought never to be seen as a cure or a solution in their own right.

Some might say its just semantics but I think it is important point because while the drugs are seen as a cure or a solution in their own right, then it kind of implies that the person need not do anything other than take the drugs. But if as a society we look at the drugs as just a bandaid in order to help some people facilitate other changes, "healing" or "learning", or whatever, then the implication is that more needs to be done than just taking the pills..



I agree with this. More DOES need to be done. I'd say the things mentioned in this thread (Omega 3, sunlight) what they do is they give a temporary boost of energy, that one can use for lifestyle / habit changes.

In fact now typing this stuff about tripping in a ceremony and tripping outside of it, makes me think how mindlessly people sometimes pop pills. There's no ritual to it, no awareness, no magic, no respect. Deeply religious people put amazing work an care into taking their placebo placeholders (bread, water, whatever) whereas pills that might indeed come with a cure or assistance, are just popped with no ritual at all.

If it were after me all pills, especially antidepressants, would have a formula they need to be taken with. Like take at 6 am after running a mile and while enjoying the awesome sunrise. Take only after reviewing your list of awesome awesome things you'll do when not depressed, and doing a victory dance about it. I suspect it'd work MUCH better than rolling out of bed, taking a shit, popping pills, scratching ass, yawning and falling into bed again all miserable and lazy :lol:

I would write this shit out, then if you showed up at the doc to whine the pills ain't working, he'd be able to ask have you done this? These pills are meant to be taken outdoors after 10 min of walking in fresh air. Have you done that, like it says on the box? No? Then GTFO and do it :rofl:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific]
    #19073902 - 11/02/13 07:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Spacerific said:
In fact now typing this stuff about tripping in a ceremony and tripping outside of it, makes me think how mindlessly people sometimes pop pills. There's no ritual to it, no awareness, no magic, no respect. Deeply religious people put amazing work an care into taking their placebo placeholders (bread, water, whatever) whereas pills that might indeed come with a cure or assistance, are just popped with no ritual at all.





True. Taking pills, even health supplements, all kind of fits into our fast food mentality of quick fixes. Kind of takes any potential meaningfulness out of the experience. So the question is, when I pop my multivitamin and fish oil, how might I make it a more meaningful experience through ritual and consequently more valuable one? ...perhaps expressing gratitude through some words or act, and/or making some personal sacrifice?? When I consider that, in theory it seems like a good thing but it seems a little artificial and contrived which counteracts the potential meaningfulness of the act. 

Quote:

Spacerific said:
If it were after me all pills, especially antidepressants, would have a formula they need to be taken with. Like take at 6 am after running a mile and while enjoying the awesome sunrise. Take only after reviewing your list of awesome awesome things you'll do when not depressed, and doing a victory dance about it. I suspect it'd work MUCH better than rolling out of bed, taking a shit, popping pills, scratching ass, yawning and falling into bed again all miserable and lazy :lol:

I would write this shit out, then if you showed up at the doc to whine the pills ain't working, he'd be able to ask have you done this? These pills are meant to be taken outdoors after 10 min of walking in fresh air. Have you done that, like it says on the box? No? Then GTFO and do it :rofl:




That's a good idea. I reckon most doctors would love to agree with you too but I expect that most people would never do the regimen, so faced with the constant failure, I expect it would become a little disheartening to the doctors... until they create a pill that enables people to make behaviour change effortlessly, lol, but that would probably make the antidepressant and anxiolytic medications redundant.


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Mufungo]
    #19073978 - 11/02/13 08:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:
Quote:

Spacerific said:
In fact now typing this stuff about tripping in a ceremony and tripping outside of it, makes me think how mindlessly people sometimes pop pills. There's no ritual to it, no awareness, no magic, no respect. Deeply religious people put amazing work an care into taking their placebo placeholders (bread, water, whatever) whereas pills that might indeed come with a cure or assistance, are just popped with no ritual at all.





True. Taking pills, even health supplements, all kind of fits into our fast food mentality of quick fixes. Kind of takes any potential meaningfulness out of the experience. So the question is, when I pop my multivitamin and fish oil, how might I make it a more meaningful experience through ritual and consequently more valuable one? ...perhaps expressing gratitude through some words or act, and/or making some personal sacrifice?? When I consider that, in theory it seems like a good thing but it seems a little artificial and contrived which counteracts the potential meaningfulness of the act. 



This is where it's actually important to get a feel for other rituals, anything that moves you. Some religions have an in-house altar, a dedicated corner, sacred space perhaps, focused on a certain idea. I've found Western space (bathroom cabinet for instance) to lack that vibe completely, as it's not in any way linked to a deity of cleanliness, health or good vibes. But it could be.

Hmm, mate you've raised a good question here, I've been playing with some feeble rituals, affirmations or practices, but none of them have been set in stone, like before eating, or before popping my Omega3 pills. Now getting into this convo, I think that I actually should make a thing of it.

Examples from other rites:

In the Eleusinian mysteries:
Quote:

Before mystai could enter the Telesterion, they would recite, "I have fasted, I have drunk the kykeon, I have taken from the kiste ("box") and after working it have put it back in the kalathos ("open basket").




Muslims say Bismillah before eating, and Anlamdulillah after.

I'm sure BUddhists and Hindus and all manner of groups have their own ways of marking moments and intentions, bringing back awareness to what teh point of it all is.

It probably feels a bit fake, unfamiliar, useless and contrived for everyone the first 10 times, but then the familiarity starts to kick in, and I imagine one slowly starts to make it their own. "Being" a proper Buddhist / Muslim / Hindu that does dedicate food/meds/anything to their sincere beliefs. It's probably a richer type of experience that dedicating nothing to nothing at all, just chewing and swallowing.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific]
    #19074040 - 11/02/13 08:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

How about I clarify. Taking in substances that dramatically change and imbalance the chemistry of a part of your brain, and have a short duration (2-3 day even) imbalancing effect on your cns, are probably not going to help bring you the stable mind you're going for...

As for tripping every month, THAT is the bandaid. When you trip it can take a week or several months to properly integrate experiences. This is not even to mention serotonin long term deficiencies.

Aya tripping is with dmt, so, very different since its not releasing serotonin, but dmt needs respect and integration too, so to put your body through a 10 hour trip every 4 week..... What do you really expect?


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Edited by Yogi1 (11/02/13 08:33 AM)


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Yogi1]
    #19074340 - 11/02/13 09:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I expect many things, all of them positive. Santo Daime is well spread enough that people have had a chance to observe its practitioners long term. They do have lower depression, suicide, better memory scores and other positive effects compared to say Catholics in the exact same geographical area. All things being even, having Aya in Sunday church seems to improve quite a few factors that don't seem to work too well in the US, maybe the Western world in general.

Being well integrated in a social group that has regular organized activities proven to be healthy long term, that is a bandaid? How does that work? :lol:

It's not a "fix" for a specific problem or condition necessarily, it's a religion, it's supposed to offer regularity, familiarity, a reliable calendar of events. I am talking specifically about the Santo Daime approach here, not saying go to a Peruvian shaman or curandero every month. Indeed if we're talking curanderos, that might can expected to work without regular followup meetings (and probably does). But that's simply a medical cure, whereas SD has other roles as well, being a religious ritual as well as social gathering.

Anyway to clarify my position a bit: If and when I have any problems like depression, feeling down and such, I will trust Aya, shrooms or peyote far more than I will trust any Western approach, especially pharma pills like SSRI's or benzos. Regular trips alone may or may not help every time, but actual ceremonies make a world of difference, for me at least. It's incredibly comforting to know that yes, there is a place that works, in case I really need it.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


Edited by Spacerific (11/02/13 10:06 AM)


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific]
    #19074379 - 11/02/13 10:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I suggest you report back because I'm sure you have many peoples attention here.

The only thing I'm arguing at all about is end all be all psychedelic medicine. I think its very unhealthy to preach that medicine to people who might not be able to utilize it, or in some cases, benefit from it.

I would have approached daime years ago if it wasn't a Christian based church. Too much paranoia of programming for me.


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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Yogi1]
    #19075757 - 11/02/13 03:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yogi1 said:
I suggest you report back because I'm sure you have many peoples attention here.

The only thing I'm arguing at all about is end all be all psychedelic medicine. I think its very unhealthy to preach that medicine to people who might not be able to utilize it, or in some cases, benefit from it.

I would have approached daime years ago if it wasn't a Christian based church. Too much paranoia of programming for me.



Well for what it's worth, I've been there a few times and plan to go many more, and at no point have I felt the need to take the Jesus spam seriously :lol:

When your curiosity / desire for the medicine is greater than your paranoia of programming, you'll certainly be able to go as well. I've always considered that my business is with the vision, with the plant, the church and singers in it just provide a venue. Which they did, a very good one.

I may be a bit biased (pro-Aya) since it worked pretty well for me. If others have horror stories or simply neutral results after it, I hope they post those as well. One thing I'd be very suspicious of are instances where the aya is home made, by someone who's a first timer, and also taken at home, lacking the group context.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific]
    #19088086 - 11/04/13 11:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Morning Shroomery, and I'm back with an update. Holy fuck, it's been nearly a month since I started this thread. Amazing.

So update: It's 8 in the morning, my sleep schedule is back on track, after months of wasting time online at night, sleeping it off during the day and waking up at 3-4 pm. I've already prepared my Yerba Mate and while it was warming up, did my running indoors, to get my pulse up. Didn't have any breakfast, after Crystal G's recommendation to work out on an empty stomach in the morning, for extra fat burn. Not sure if a cup of Yerba Mate changes hormonal levels at all or if I'll faint from low blood sugar, but yeh, won't know until we try :shrug:

I am posting this one post then hitting the Kundalini Yoga one hour video, which I've tested yesterday morning and found completely awesome.

To some extent it might be argued that the Omega 3 is not the only thing helping me out, because I also found this new chick at the Yoga class I went to, so yeah not exactly solo here. However, the chick has been UNBELIEVABLY slow to respond, frustrating as fuck, took me like 4-5 dates to even be able to start kissing her, and to this day I get weird vibes from her, like she's not into it etc etc. Leading me to seriously consider if I'll even call her over again or anything. So in short, it's been a stressful annoying uphill battle with little fun or rewards. Last time I did anything like this I broke down like a little bitch, my thought process warped beyond all recognition. So the fact that shit still isn't working with girl, job and other topics, but I've still got the energy to actually start good exercise habits, I think a lot of that is due to large amounts of Omega 3 and spirulina in my diet, I see no other possible source for it.

Continuing to strongly recommend 1000 mg of EPA a day to anyone who's feeling even slightly off their game, let alone to all the properly depressed people that post here, cheated and let down by what society tells them leads to a good fun healthy life.

Time for Yoga, hope everybody has a nice pussylicious day and :boobs: in their face :dancer::dancer:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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