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nrgfx
Enthusiastic Beginner


Registered: 09/19/13
Posts: 35
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Are these tiny black dots contaminations, soot or tiny vermiculite particles? Photo attached
#18940711 - 10/06/13 02:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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All my current PF tek jars have tiny little black dots on the vermiculite acting as a filter on top. I'm wondering if it is mucor or soot.
They vary in amount. The odd thing is that these jars were made in batches. I made 4 different batches of jars that were pressure cooked, inoculated all on different days. I also used 3 different types of syringes so I doubt that all 3 syringes and all 4 jar batches were all contaminated. I also flame sterilized each time I inoculated a new jars.
I flame sterilized them using an homemade isopropyl alcohol flame using tin foil, cotton and rubbing alcohol. A large amount of soot was produced on the needle and I didn't rub the soot off before inoculating the jars. Could these dots be the soot from the alcohol flame?
It's just odd since I have it in all my jars and it hasn't appeared on any of the mycelium.
Should I try to rinse it off at the time of birthing and see if they are in the mycelium?
I'm also planning to place the possible contaminated cakes in the same fruiting chamber that I'm currently using for my first batch (I don't remember if my first batch had the small black dots, but I did wipe off the needle after flaming). Would that be okay or will it contaminate my first batch with the same contamination. I read that fully colonized mycelium was fairly resistant to contaminates.
This photo is of a fully colonized cake still in the jar:

Thank you for your help!
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Gretchenmeister
Starbeing/Psilocybin Savant



Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 1,032
Loc: From the Stars
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Re: Are these tiny black dots contaminations, soot or tiny vermiculite particles? Photo attached [Re: nrgfx]
#18942260 - 10/06/13 08:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The pic is very hard to see the black spots in the pic. But I do see what you are talking about. It doesn't look to me like the jar is fully colonized there, I see a circular dip down from the top where your verm layer is, which could be indicative of a contam.
Birth it last if you are birthing other cakes, and check it out with gloved hands. If you think it is a contam you will have to decide to trash it or try to salvage it somehow.
-------------------- What's wrong with folks? Point your IRC client to irc.socialirc.com, port 6667, #cultivation and #shroomery for live chat with like minded hobbyists and connoisseurs. Mush Porn
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nrgfx
Enthusiastic Beginner


Registered: 09/19/13
Posts: 35
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Re: Are these tiny black dots contaminations, soot or tiny vermiculite particles? Photo attached [Re: Gretchenmeister]
#18942322 - 10/06/13 08:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gretchenmeister said: The pic is very hard to see the black spots in the pic. But I do see what you are talking about. It doesn't look to me like the jar is fully colonized there, I see a circular dip down from the top where your verm layer is, which could be indicative of a contam.
Birth it last if you are birthing other cakes, and check it out with gloved hands. If you think it is a contam you will have to decide to trash it or try to salvage it somehow.
Thank you for your advice! I appreciate it.
I think there is full thick mycelium behind that brown area. The vermiculite acting as a filter fell down the side due to the shrinkage of the substrate once the mycelium formed.
I'll birth it last as you advised. If all the black dots wash off and there doesn't seem to be any of the contamination on the mycelium do you think it's all safe to place in my fruiting chamber along with my other cakes?
If it is contam, how would I go about salvaging it? Should I cut off that area?
Thanks!
Edited by nrgfx (10/06/13 09:17 PM)
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nrgfx
Enthusiastic Beginner


Registered: 09/19/13
Posts: 35
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Re: Are these tiny black dots contaminations, soot or tiny vermiculite particles? Photo attached [Re: nrgfx]
#18942469 - 10/06/13 09:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've been looking through the contamination faq and I've come across this image.
http://www.shroomery.org/images/23418/Rhizopus_stolonifera.jpg
I'm pretty sure it's pin mold and it's in most of my jars:( I'm very disappointed since it's ruined 16 jars. Does anyone know what caused it and how I can take preventative measures next time? It's just a bit odd since it happened to all my separate batches with different spore syringes. I've been extremely careful about sterilization and using a glove box.
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Gretchenmeister
Starbeing/Psilocybin Savant



Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 1,032
Loc: From the Stars
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Re: Are these tiny black dots contaminations, soot or tiny vermiculite particles? Photo attached [Re: nrgfx]
#18942483 - 10/06/13 09:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
nrgfx said: I've been looking through the contamination faq and I've come across this image.
http://www.shroomery.org/images/23418/Rhizopus_stolonifera.jpg
I'm pretty sure it's pin mold and it's in most of my jars:( I'm very disappointed since it's ruined 16 jars. Does anyone know what caused it and how I can take preventative measures next time? It's just a bit odd since it happened to all my separate batches with different spore syringes. I've been extremely careful about sterilization and using a glove box.
Looks to be near the top too.
You are using a pc to sterilize? If so, you are letting the pc depressurize on its own?
You cover your jar lids with foil?
Where do you incubate or otherwise let your jars colonize?
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nrgfx
Enthusiastic Beginner


Registered: 09/19/13
Posts: 35
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Re: Are these tiny black dots contaminations, soot or tiny vermiculite particles? Photo attached [Re: Gretchenmeister]
#18942551 - 10/06/13 10:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gretchenmeister said:
Quote:
nrgfx said: I've been looking through the contamination faq and I've come across this image.
http://www.shroomery.org/images/23418/Rhizopus_stolonifera.jpg
I'm pretty sure it's pin mold and it's in most of my jars:( I'm very disappointed since it's ruined 16 jars. Does anyone know what caused it and how I can take preventative measures next time? It's just a bit odd since it happened to all my separate batches with different spore syringes. I've been extremely careful about sterilization and using a glove box.
Looks to be near the top too.
You are using a pc to sterilize? If so, you are letting the pc depressurize on its own?
You cover your jar lids with foil?
Where do you incubate or otherwise let your jars colonize?
I've been using a pc to sterilize but I haven't be letting it depressurize on it's own. I did rinse the pressure cooker under cold water so I could unhatch the lid. I had a problem with the lid's lock malfunctioning and locking the first time around when I left it locked over night to cool.
Yup, I did cover all the jars lids with foil.
I incubated the jars in a home made incubator. A large container with warm water heated with an aquarium heater with a smaller container inside. Recently, I've stopped using the incubator since people mentioned that it may increase contaminates. I think they were right!
I'm thinking the reason it happened to all my jars is that I didn't place enough dry verm as a filter. I bought different jars that were a bit smaller so I think the verm was still wet. I can see some mycelium creeping up to the top of the filter verm. Also for my first batch, the dry verm filter was thicker and I had no problems with contaminates.
Would the thin layer of verm may been the reason why all my jars were contaminated with pin mold?
Thank you for all the help:)
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Gretchenmeister
Starbeing/Psilocybin Savant



Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 1,032
Loc: From the Stars
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Re: Are these tiny black dots contaminations, soot or tiny vermiculite particles? Photo attached [Re: nrgfx]
#18942668 - 10/06/13 10:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well based on the information you provided I have to stress the importance of letting your pc depressurize on its own. Some folks even put a wet towel over the vents to prevent particles from entering as it cools. When you assist in releasing pressure you allow "bad air" to be sucked in at a very fast rate, and also be sucked into your jars.
I agree that TiT (Tub in Tub Incubators) can be a contam vector. I do however think that keeping colonizing jars in a dark container of their own has advantages. First it keeps dust from falling on the jar lids, or foil. Second, if you have contams, often times you can smell them when you open the tub to check your jars, because of the confined space.
Let your pc cool on its own and see if your luck doesn't change
-------------------- What's wrong with folks? Point your IRC client to irc.socialirc.com, port 6667, #cultivation and #shroomery for live chat with like minded hobbyists and connoisseurs. Mush Porn
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nrgfx
Enthusiastic Beginner


Registered: 09/19/13
Posts: 35
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Re: Are these tiny black dots contaminations, soot or tiny vermiculite particles? Photo attached [Re: Gretchenmeister]
#18942769 - 10/06/13 11:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gretchenmeister said: Well based on the information you provided I have to stress the importance of letting your pc depressurize on its own. Some folks even put a wet towel over the vents to prevent particles from entering as it cools. When you assist in releasing pressure you allow "bad air" to be sucked in at a very fast rate, and also be sucked into your jars.
I agree that TiT (Tub in Tub Incubators) can be a contam vector. I do however think that keeping colonizing jars in a dark container of their own has advantages. First it keeps dust from falling on the jar lids, or foil. Second, if you have contams, often times you can smell them when you open the tub to check your jars, because of the confined space.
Let your pc cool on its own and see if your luck doesn't change 
Thank you very much! I'll follow your advice next time and make sure to make a thicker layer of filter verm. Your conclusions make sense since my first batch was all good and I let it cool naturally.
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nrgfx
Enthusiastic Beginner


Registered: 09/19/13
Posts: 35
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Re: Are these tiny black dots contaminations, soot or tiny vermiculite particles? Photo attached [Re: nrgfx]
#18947052 - 10/07/13 09:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I just made a new batch of pf tek jars and I took a look at them after the pc depressurized and I placed a wet towel on top. I opened one to see if the verm filter was wet. It was dry but the top of the lid had a bit of condensation. Is that normal? Don't worry, I plan to pressure cook them again since I opened a few jars to examine:)
I've also noticed that the verm filter that makes contact with the wet verm in my new jars have tiny black pepper like particles similar to the contamination that I suspected in the photo. I'm thinking it might just be vermiculite or brown rice that was burnt. I'm hoping to store my new pf tek jars somewhere until future use after I see if my current batch is contaminated. What would be the best way to store non inoculated jars?
Thanks!
Edited by nrgfx (10/07/13 10:54 PM)
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,855
Last seen: 9 hours, 50 minutes
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Re: Are these tiny black dots contaminations, soot or tiny vermiculite particles? Photo attached [Re: Gretchenmeister]
#18947409 - 10/07/13 10:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gretchenmeister said: Well based on the information you provided I have to stress the importance of letting your pc depressurize on its own. Some folks even put a wet towel over the vents to prevent particles from entering as it cools. When you assist in releasing pressure you allow "bad air" to be sucked in at a very fast rate, and also be sucked into your jars.
Should be the other around. If you release the pressure the air gets sucked out of the jars along with any water in the jar that is still above 212F
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nrgfx
Enthusiastic Beginner


Registered: 09/19/13
Posts: 35
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Re: Are these tiny black dots contaminations, soot or tiny vermiculite particles? Photo attached [Re: Kizzle]
#18967929 - 10/12/13 11:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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So the jar in the photo started pinning in vitro so I decided to birth it. It smelled fine while I was rinsing it and it looked like fine vermiculite fell into the sides that created that circle in the photo. It was fully colonized behind the circle. I was able to wash off most of the fine black particles.
I don't think it's contaminates, I think it might be fine vermiculite particles since the particles never spread since taking the photo.
Does it sound like mold or just fine vermiculite particles?
To be safe, I birthed it into a mini fruiting chamber using a soda bottle to keep it separate from my other cakes in the sgfc. If the suspected cake starts pinning more and looks healthy, should I place it into my existing sgfc?
Thank you for all the help!
Bump
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