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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
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The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord
#18939489 - 10/06/13 10:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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That is, in the light of Christ.
All other happiness is merely transient happiness, which isn't true happiness at all because it is accompanied by sadness. Thus the world can never satisfy. Even in the rare event that circumstances come together perfectly for you and your own happiness, that state of affairs is virtually impossible to maintain for very long. Eventually something will go wrong and you will have to confront the same old problem of unhappiness again.
Let us imagine if our exceedingly wealthy neighbor offered to pay us $325,000 to watch their children for a year and help them with their homeowrk. Consider the utmost care and effort we put into doing what our neighbor had asked of us and careful we would be to carry out their every instruction.
So my brothers and sisters in the Lord, if we are willing to put forth that much effort in the pursuit of temporary, imperfect happiness why do we hesitate before putting forth the same or greater effort in the pursuit of eternal perfect happiness?
God is so gracious and merciful that he cannot help but take notice whenever we sincerely attempt to please Him. Hence he is prepared to grant us most undeserving and unworthy sinners, so much grace and divine assistance that provided our intent is pure, we can scarcely fail our mission. But such is the Lord our God, so loving and kind and compassionate.
Let us pray: May almighty God have mercy on us poor sinners and help us to resist the temptations of the flesh, in order that we may become holy servants of the Most High. We ask this through Christ, our Lord. Amen.
Edited by Deviate (10/06/13 10:04 AM)
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Stargrazer
Bridge Burner


Registered: 02/11/13
Posts: 64
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18939500 - 10/06/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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nahh
-------------------- Tis not by irony that nature itself kills the beast.
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Yogi1
Squatchin

Registered: 04/01/13
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18939571 - 10/06/13 10:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I believe in the flying Spaghetti Monster and his noodly appendage!!!
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Stargrazer]
#18939612 - 10/06/13 10:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- ...or something
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Yogi1]
#18939684 - 10/06/13 10:54 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stargrazer said: nahh
Quote:
Yogi1 said: I believe in the flying Spaghetti Monster and his noodly appendage!!!

congrats but what does that have to do with the topic?
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Yogi1
Squatchin

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18939806 - 10/06/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said:
Quote:
Stargrazer said: nahh
Quote:
Yogi1 said: I believe in the flying Spaghetti Monster and his noodly appendage!!!

congrats but what does that have to do with the topic?
The only true happiness is within thy noodly appendage, can I get a ramen?
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Withinity
Untitled


Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 1,357
Loc: Côte d’Ivoire
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Yogi1]
#18939866 - 10/06/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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One Bowl of Ramen coming up.
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Edited by Withinity (10/06/13 11:42 AM)
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Yogi1
Squatchin

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Withinity]
#18939872 - 10/06/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thats not Ramen, thats actually unholy shrimp which is a sin according to the word of god contained inside the bible.
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leon trout
Estimated Prophet



Registered: 09/13/12
Posts: 1,089
Loc: The Timbers of Fennario
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Yogi1]
#18939873 - 10/06/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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jah pastafari...
-------------------- “I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in poverty. Actually, I’m more intrigued by the 23 per cent who are apparently doing quite well for themselves.” ~ St. Jerome of Marin
the bus come by & i got on, that's when it all began
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Yogi1
Squatchin

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: leon trout]
#18939877 - 10/06/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
leon trout said: jah pastafari...
"It all started with the word, and the word was arrrghh!" -Piraticus 20:20
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18939933 - 10/06/13 12:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Absolutely not. I'm not a poor sinner and I don't need the mercy of a violent and vengeful god. That kind of slavery is not my cup of tea. Nor does it seem so to many here from the replies. But you go ahead and knock yourself out.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Icelander]
#18940000 - 10/06/13 12:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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thats exactly the problem it seems we have a spirituality and mysticism forum where everyone besides me, markosthegnostic and a few other posters is a god damn atheist.
as timothy leary so eloquently described in his trip report for his first ever mushroom, he realized that the path of the mystic was the inner path. i am interested in in communicating with people who share that belief. all the worlds major religions are the same to me,because they all teach that in their own way.
the mystic looks within himself for love, happiness, and all spiritual treasure, whereas the ordinary man looks outside himself.
now how many people actually believe in looking within? i am curious, because it seems like every time i make a thread on a mystical or spiritual topic, the majority of responses are from skeptics and non believers.
the problem with discussing mysticism with non believers is how incredibly ignorant they tend to be. the experience is like if you were a scientist and an atheist and you went to an evolution forum wishing to discuss evolution and you were met with nothing but a bunch of young earth creationists who do nothing but arrogantly ridicule your ideas about evolution.
can you see how that would be dissapionting?
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Yogi1
Squatchin

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18940100 - 10/06/13 12:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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HA, youre shocked a spirituality forum is full of agnostics and there are only a couple people who would post here who believe in a book made by god but not made by god but is forever but is based on the context of the actual writers.
You are the minority for a good reason sire.
The path IS within, not without.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18940127 - 10/06/13 12:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: thats exactly the problem it seems we have a spirituality and mysticism forum where everyone besides me, markosthegnostic and a few other posters is a god damn atheist.
as timothy leary so eloquently described in his trip report for his first ever mushroom, he realized that the path of the mystic was the inner path. i am interested in in communicating with people who share that belief. all the worlds major religions are the same to me,because they all teach that in their own way.
the mystic looks within himself for love, happiness, and all spiritual treasure, whereas the ordinary man looks outside himself.
now how many people actually believe in looking within? i am curious, because it seems like every time i make a thread on a mystical or spiritual topic, the majority of responses are from skeptics and non believers.
the problem with discussing mysticism with non believers is how incredibly ignorant they tend to be. the experience is like if you were a scientist and an atheist and you went to an evolution forum wishing to discuss evolution and you were met with nothing but a bunch of young earth creationists who do nothing but arrogantly ridicule your ideas about evolution.
can you see how that would be dissapionting?
Life is full of disappointments.
I suggest you find yourself a great religious forum full of like minded christians to play with. There must be plenty of those out there. This should solve your problem handily.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Yogi1
Squatchin

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Icelander]
#18940133 - 10/06/13 12:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Free thinkin be all like, why you not think like me bro?
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Yogi1]
#18940136 - 10/06/13 12:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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if you agree that the path is within then why do you disagree with me? because i use christian terminology?
do you realize that that would be like disagreeing with someone if they state something in russian but then agreering with the very same thing stated in spanish?
when i say, happiness is in the Lord i could very well say happiness is within the Self. both statements mean the very same thing so if youre going to agree with one and not the other, youre the one who owes an explanation.
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Deviate
newbie
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Icelander]
#18940145 - 10/06/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Deviate said: thats exactly the problem it seems we have a spirituality and mysticism forum where everyone besides me, markosthegnostic and a few other posters is a god damn atheist.
as timothy leary so eloquently described in his trip report for his first ever mushroom, he realized that the path of the mystic was the inner path. i am interested in in communicating with people who share that belief. all the worlds major religions are the same to me,because they all teach that in their own way.
the mystic looks within himself for love, happiness, and all spiritual treasure, whereas the ordinary man looks outside himself.
now how many people actually believe in looking within? i am curious, because it seems like every time i make a thread on a mystical or spiritual topic, the majority of responses are from skeptics and non believers.
the problem with discussing mysticism with non believers is how incredibly ignorant they tend to be. the experience is like if you were a scientist and an atheist and you went to an evolution forum wishing to discuss evolution and you were met with nothing but a bunch of young earth creationists who do nothing but arrogantly ridicule your ideas about evolution.
can you see how that would be dissapionting?
Life is full of disappointments.
I suggest you find yourself a great religious forum full of like minded christians to play with. There must be plenty of those out there. This should solve your problem handily.
with a psychedelic bent though? i am interested in discussing the truth as revealed by psychedelics, because psychedelics have played a major role in my understanding the Truth.
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Yogi1
Squatchin

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18940149 - 10/06/13 12:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: if you agree that the path is within then why do you disagree with me? because i use christian terminology?
do you realize that that would be like disagreeing with someone if they state something in russian but then agreering with the very same thing stated in spanish?
when i say, happiness is in the Lord i could very well say happiness is within the Self. both statements mean the very same thing so if youre going to agree with one and not the other, youre the one who owes an explanation.
No youre saying "the only true happines is happiness in the (christian) lord." First of all that a ridiculous statement as I find happiness in a lot of other experiences, and right now youre backpedaling. Apologetics are the lowest form and least respected of fundamentalist religions.
EDIT, you cant possibly believe gays will burn in some ridiculous underground sea of eternal fire for expressing love to eachother while experiencing a trip.
Edited by Yogi1 (10/06/13 12:51 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18940164 - 10/06/13 12:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
the problem with discussing mysticism with non believers is how incredibly ignorant they tend to be.
Ignorant means without knowledge and yet belief without factual evidence is pure ignorance.
There is one law of gravity because facts converge. There are several hundred thousand religions or sub-flavors of religions because there is nothing to base them on; hence the wide divergence.
If you could present actual reason why an agnostic should choose your belief system over all the others then you might have a real discussion; otherwise all you have is a bold assertion that does not stand out from the other hundreds of thousands of bold assertions.
--------------------
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18940168 - 10/06/13 12:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Deviate said: thats exactly the problem it seems we have a spirituality and mysticism forum where everyone besides me, markosthegnostic and a few other posters is a god damn atheist.
as timothy leary so eloquently described in his trip report for his first ever mushroom, he realized that the path of the mystic was the inner path. i am interested in in communicating with people who share that belief. all the worlds major religions are the same to me,because they all teach that in their own way.
the mystic looks within himself for love, happiness, and all spiritual treasure, whereas the ordinary man looks outside himself.
now how many people actually believe in looking within? i am curious, because it seems like every time i make a thread on a mystical or spiritual topic, the majority of responses are from skeptics and non believers.
the problem with discussing mysticism with non believers is how incredibly ignorant they tend to be. the experience is like if you were a scientist and an atheist and you went to an evolution forum wishing to discuss evolution and you were met with nothing but a bunch of young earth creationists who do nothing but arrogantly ridicule your ideas about evolution.
can you see how that would be dissapionting?
Life is full of disappointments.
I suggest you find yourself a great religious forum full of like minded christians to play with. There must be plenty of those out there. This should solve your problem handily.
with a psychedelic bent though? i am interested in discussing the truth as revealed by psychedelics, because psychedelics have played a major role in my understanding the Truth.
If christians are all that great they should accept your ways of finding your truth. I mean the lord is revealing the truth to them right? They are not relying on their own understanding right?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Yogi1
Squatchin

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#18940174 - 10/06/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
the problem with discussing mysticism with non believers is how incredibly ignorant they tend to be.
Ignorant means without knowledge and yet belief without factual evidence is pure ignorance.
There is one law of gravity because facts converge. There are several hundred thousand religions or sub-flavors of religions because there is nothing to base them on; hence the wide divergence.
If you could present actual reason why an agnostic should choose your belief system over all the others then you might have a real discussion; otherwise all you have is a bold assertion that does not stand out from the other hundreds of thousands of bold assertions.

Why the spirituality forum be all vague and agnostic?!?!?!
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Yogi1]
#18940343 - 10/06/13 01:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said:
Quote:
Deviate said: if you agree that the path is within then why do you disagree with me? because i use christian terminology?
do you realize that that would be like disagreeing with someone if they state something in russian but then agreering with the very same thing stated in spanish?
when i say, happiness is in the Lord i could very well say happiness is within the Self. both statements mean the very same thing so if youre going to agree with one and not the other, youre the one who owes an explanation.
No youre saying "the only true happines is happiness in the (christian) lord." First of all that a ridiculous statement as I find happiness in a lot of other experiences, and right now youre backpedaling. Apologetics are the lowest form and least respected of fundamentalist religions.
all i am saying is this, the source of happiness, the wellspring of life, is to be found within the human heart not in the world of sensory experience.
you can disagree with that all you want, only make sure thats what you are disagreeing with.
now traditionally, this truth, along with most other spiritual truths, have been described with christian terminology in our culture. this i find very beautiful and lovely, so i use it. I love christianity and it is my favorite way of exprressing spiritual truth.
I could say the same thing in a non christain way, since all the worlds religions teach this. so why not focus on the truth rather than how it is expressed? I told you its as if youre saying this idea is wrong because its written in russian and the russians hate homsosexuals, therefore all russian ideas are wrong. if it was written in spanish, then it would be true. thats basically what your argument has been.
Quote:
EDIT, you cant possibly believe gays will burn in some ridiculous underground sea of eternal fire for expressing love to eachother while experiencing a trip.
you cant possibly believe the fate of homosexuals has anything to do with the location of the source of happiness. why cant you make a point without bringing up homosexuals? its ridiculous.
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Yogi1
Squatchin

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18940349 - 10/06/13 01:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I got happiness when I was an atheist, agnostic, hippy, and now again as an agnostic. I dont see how the christian lord has shit to do with overall happiness.
Dawkins seems to be just fine.
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#18941447 - 10/06/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
the problem with discussing mysticism with non believers is how incredibly ignorant they tend to be.
Ignorant means without knowledge and yet belief without factual evidence is pure ignorance.
There is one law of gravity because facts converge. There are several hundred thousand religions or sub-flavors of religions because there is nothing to base them on; hence the wide divergence.
If you could present actual reason why an agnostic should choose your belief system over all the others then you might have a real discussion; otherwise all you have is a bold assertion that does not stand out from the other hundreds of thousands of bold assertions.
I could give reasons why agnostics should choose my belief system, not proof but reasons certainly. However that is not where my interest lies. I already explained in another thread but to sum up, let's say I tried to respond to your post and debate with you. Do you think my answer, regardless of how good it was, would change your mind? I highly doubt it. Instead, you would come back with more arguments. Then where would we be? Another theist vs atheist debate.
The reason this forum was created is because of that problem. Try to look at this from my perspective. Do you really think I want to have to defend all my spiritual beliefs, to the same tired arguments against them, every time I make a post? It's not even that i dont like debate, I do and I have debated with atheists a great deal. In fact, if you would like to debate with me, I would be happy to do it provided you agreed to be respectful. What i dont like is being expected to have to proof my beliefs on a forum specifically made for people to discuss beliefs which could not be proven easily. It would like if you went to a science forum and it had been taken over by a bunch of young earth creations who expecrted you to prove evolution over and over again every time you made a post. Dont you think you would get tired of the same thing over again and desire a forum where you could discuss your ideas with other sceintifically minded people?
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Yogi1]
#18941492 - 10/06/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said: I got happiness when I was an atheist, agnostic, hippy, and now again as an agnostic. I dont see how the christian lord has shit to do with overall happiness.
Dawkins seems to be just fine.
Here we go again with "I don't see" assumption. You are assuming that because you don't see a relationship between two things, there isn't one.
It's so ridiculously simple. Christians believe that happiness comes not from our situation in life (which is what our nature tells us to believe, hence all our desires for pleasures of the flesh) but from within us, from our hearts.
Now you can agree with that, or not, I don't care. But to pretend you don't understand is just absurd. It's not complicated. We believe happpiness comes from within and thus that we should seek it there. The other major world religions teach the exact same thing. Do you know anything about Buddhism or Hinduism? Its not unique to the Christian idea of God, but obviously for Christians who believe that all good things come from the Lord, we are gonna identify that inner happiness as being from the Lord.
it's clear to me that when you say you got happiness, you are not talking about inner happiness because no one who truly understood inner happiness would make the kind of statements you make. Thats fine, if youre happy with your life in the world, more power to you. Some of us however, we miserable in the world. Luckily there is an alternative.
Edited by Deviate (10/06/13 06:00 PM)
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Icelander]
#18942090 - 10/06/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Deviate said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Deviate said: thats exactly the problem it seems we have a spirituality and mysticism forum where everyone besides me, markosthegnostic and a few other posters is a god damn atheist.
as timothy leary so eloquently described in his trip report for his first ever mushroom, he realized that the path of the mystic was the inner path. i am interested in in communicating with people who share that belief. all the worlds major religions are the same to me,because they all teach that in their own way.
the mystic looks within himself for love, happiness, and all spiritual treasure, whereas the ordinary man looks outside himself.
now how many people actually believe in looking within? i am curious, because it seems like every time i make a thread on a mystical or spiritual topic, the majority of responses are from skeptics and non believers.
the problem with discussing mysticism with non believers is how incredibly ignorant they tend to be. the experience is like if you were a scientist and an atheist and you went to an evolution forum wishing to discuss evolution and you were met with nothing but a bunch of young earth creationists who do nothing but arrogantly ridicule your ideas about evolution.
can you see how that would be dissapionting?
Life is full of disappointments.
I suggest you find yourself a great religious forum full of like minded christians to play with. There must be plenty of those out there. This should solve your problem handily.
with a psychedelic bent though? i am interested in discussing the truth as revealed by psychedelics, because psychedelics have played a major role in my understanding the Truth.
If christians are all that great they should accept your ways of finding your truth. I mean the lord is revealing the truth to them right? They are not relying on their own understanding right?
I never said they didn't accept it, I said that most christians forums dont have a psychedelic bent to them. Hence most of the members there are not experienced with psychedelics. Its not that I am afraid of being judged by them, its simply a matter of wanting to find like minded people. I dont have any problems with christians, i just feel like the shroomery is a rather unique place.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18942278 - 10/06/13 08:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well then quit whining about it and accept it for the unique place it is. It's never going to be just how you want it to be. It isn't the way I would prefer it to be either.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18942485 - 10/06/13 09:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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"...a mighty hot dog is our Lord...I'm not talking about hate, no, I'm talking about ate. Dinner at eight. Let's eat!..."
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Icelander]
#18942496 - 10/06/13 09:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Well then quit whining about it and accept it for the unique place it is. It's never going to be just how you want it to be. It isn't the way I would prefer it to be either.
I know that, but I am going to continue pointing it out when people post things which are against the purpose of the forum. Would you tolerate it if you were an atheist and evolution researcher and people kept posting young earth creationist theories on a evolution forum?
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#18942532 - 10/06/13 09:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Deviate
newbie
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: CosmicJoke]
#18942585 - 10/06/13 10:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't think you understand quite where I am coming from. A reverence for greater states of freedom as revealed through the psychedelic experience is exactly what I'm all about.
I feel as though the mindset on this forum is that spirituality has no precise definition and thus there are many valid ways in which one can express it. However, religion is not one of them.
Do you see the contradiction there? the people who are preaching tolerance, are very intolerant of the religious people they see as intolerant.
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Deviate
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18942602 - 10/06/13 10:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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To elaborate, let me say this. I could probably write a post expressing the exact same idea as I expressed in this thread, only clothe the idea in hip, shroomery language and get a completely different set of responses.
If I use Christian terms on the other hand, I can predict that the response will be overwhelmingly negative.
Ideally, that shouldn't be on a forum like this. People should be able to go beyond the words themselves and evaluate ideas.
I am more than capable of expressing spiritual concepts in non christian terms. the reason I use christian terms is because christianity is one of my passions in life. I absolutely love the Bible and the whole Christian religion, even some of the wacky and very heretical sects interest me. For example, I love to study mormonism even though I dont believe it to be true.
Edited by Deviate (10/06/13 10:22 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18942640 - 10/06/13 10:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Well then quit whining about it and accept it for the unique place it is. It's never going to be just how you want it to be. It isn't the way I would prefer it to be either.
I know that, but I am going to continue pointing it out when people post things which are against the purpose of the forum. Would you tolerate it if you were an atheist and evolution researcher and people kept posting young earth creationist theories on a evolution forum?
I used to whine too about the true believers who come into my main forum and won't play by the rules there but I got over it. Now I just come over here to play and even shit out. I'd have never come over here if it weren't for them. True story.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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CosmicJoke
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18942652 - 10/06/13 10:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, let's take a closer look at your idea without dressing it up in Christian terminology. You argue that nobody would hesitate putting all their effort into a large financial payout, but would be reluctant to do the work that needs to be done for personal growth for its own sake. Well, maybe I agree, but if that's the case I'd suggest you turn off browsing the internet and the Shroomery and do exactly what it is that you need to realize your greatest aspirations. I'll believe it when I see it. Lead by example, not by a sermon.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Deviate
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: CosmicJoke]
#18942669 - 10/06/13 10:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said: Well, let's take a closer look at your idea without dressing it up in Christian terminology. You argue that nobody would hesitate putting all their effort into a large financial payout, but would be reluctant to do the work that needs to be done for personal growth for its own sake. Well, maybe I agree, but if that's the case I'd suggest you turn off browsing the internet and the Shroomery and do exactly what it is that you need to realize your greatest aspirations. I'll believe it when I see it. Lead by example, not by a sermon.
What makes you think that posting on the shroomery is incompatible with my greatest aspirations?
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Icelander
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: CosmicJoke]
#18942670 - 10/06/13 10:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: CosmicJoke]
#18942858 - 10/06/13 11:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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When even MtG pokes fun at your Christian thread, it's probably time to lighten up
Exactly.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#18942895 - 10/06/13 11:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have 5 of their LPs now. I wish I had em all.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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cez


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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18942946 - 10/06/13 11:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Deviate I used to vibe with alot of your posts. You've lost me as of late 
I don't dismiss the Christian ideology, but I dismiss it as the only source of liberation..If there is such a thing.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18942988 - 10/07/13 12:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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So my brothers and sisters in the Lord, if we are willing to put forth that much effort in the pursuit of temporary, imperfect happiness why do we hesitate before putting forth the same or greater effort in the pursuit of eternal perfect happiness?
Who is assuming that people are NOT doing this? You are. That's presumptuous of you. Who evaluate's how much effort you are making, and if it's what Buddhists call "Right Effort" ?
God is so gracious and merciful that he cannot help but take notice whenever we sincerely attempt to please Him. Hence he is prepared to grant us most undeserving and unworthy sinners, so much grace and divine assistance that provided our intent is pure, we can scarcely fail our mission. But such is the Lord our God, so loving and kind and compassionate.
The masculine pronoun for God is offensive to many people and for different reasons. The Aramaic Name was Abwoon, 'Cosmic Mother-Father' or 'Cosmic Birther.' Do you think the patriarchal Greek authors of the gospels were going to reveal a feminine deity or feminine-masculine deity even if a mystic Iesous used it? No. If you want to buy into Augustine's Original Sin doctrine, and go about flagellating yourself for your unworthiness to live, go ahead and enjoy your masochism. Iesous himself never even heard of the Original Sin doctrine. He was Jewish, and held that humans have a good and an evil inclination, the Yetzer Tov and the Yetzer Hara, respectively. BTW, Christianity from its beginning was a religion of celebration, not asceticism. That was John the Baptist's trip which was surpassed by a new teaching. Christianity like most every other religion had its share of masochists. I used to suffer from that disorder, but fortunately, it's been in remission now for decades. My sex life is well integrated and it is no longer an alien force trying to seduce me by "the glamour of Satan" and whatever. The "Abba" of the NT is another conception of God - certainly not the concept of YHWH who is a genocidal tyrant of cosmic proportion. Don't get too attached to the concepts of God, they are just ideas, not God. There is nothing biblical to illustrate one-sided kindness and compassion of God. As Isaiah 45:7 points out "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Have you ever read the Tenach? Can't be the same God-IDEA.
Let us pray: May almighty God have mercy on us poor sinners and help us to resist the temptations of the flesh, in order that we may become holy servants of the Most High. We ask this through Christ, our Lord. Amen.
Well, I for one am not a "whore-monger," or a "glutton," but it's difficult to say what a "wine bibber" is, unless it means a drunk, which I am not either, even though I drink wine nightly. Hmm, I hope it occurs to you that Paul was WRONG about the imminent end of time, and the return of Christ. Advising people not to marry because the end was near was bum advice. So was becoming a martyr IMO and allowing children to be eaten alive by big cats, or covered with pitch and burned alive as torches for night spectacles in the coliseum. The modern expression 'child abuse' doesn't even come close to mass delusions of smiling Christians, singing hymns as they entered the coliseum. These are the things that stand out to people opposed to religion in general but Christianity in particular. Keeping one's mind on mythically described 'heaven' or 'paradise' does not negate the historicity of atrocities because Christians wouldn't make offerings to local deities, thereby sparing their lives. This was all ego, it was not going to offend Ultimate Reality to put some food down in front of a stone carving.
What part of these egotistical behaviors that pass for holiness do you not get. The Gnostics got it and continued to live, because their religion was truly inward, as you claim to be all about. Most people here obviously do not find your language, modeled on biblical writ, to be romantic, or uplifting. Serving has lost its meaning in the 21st century, and being "a slave for Christ" is archaic and uninviting. Fortunately, for those who intuit that there is Truth to be mined somewhere in Christianity, the Good LORD led two moronic Muslim manure miners to the Nag Hammadi library, wherein we can find teachings from other than the misogynistic, sexually hung-up, Saul called Paul of Tarsus. Half of the Pauline writings are forgeries, and even the authentic Paul was just plain wrong about so much, like the 'end times,' that he projected this into a mythic future instead of understanding it as an eschatological Present (like the modern mystic Eckhart Tolle describes). Maybe you need to watch Monty Python's The Life of Brian. The wrong messiah drops a sandal and the multitudes adopt it as a religious symbol. Paul writes some [genuine] letters, and they are turned into holy scriptures. Awaken from your assumptions!
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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White Beard

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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18943512 - 10/07/13 05:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: the problem with discussing mysticism with non believers is how incredibly ignorant they tend to be. the experience is like if you were a scientist and an atheist and you went to an evolution forum wishing to discuss evolution and you were met with nothing but a bunch of young earth creationists who do nothing but arrogantly ridicule your ideas about evolution.
can you see how that would be dissapionting?
I thought you said true happiness doesn't come from the world. Whether this thread was filled completely with Christians, or completely with atheists, shouldn't matter to your overall happiness, right?
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Icelander
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#18943805 - 10/07/13 08:44 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Saul called Paul of Tarsus
For sure one of the worse things to ever befall Christianity. Beware of the zealot convert.
If there is anything to get out of Christianity the Gnostics are the ones who got it imo.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Deviate
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: White Beard]
#18945370 - 10/07/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
White Beard said:
Quote:
Deviate said: the problem with discussing mysticism with non believers is how incredibly ignorant they tend to be. the experience is like if you were a scientist and an atheist and you went to an evolution forum wishing to discuss evolution and you were met with nothing but a bunch of young earth creationists who do nothing but arrogantly ridicule your ideas about evolution.
can you see how that would be dissapionting?
I thought you said true happiness doesn't come from the world. Whether this thread was filled completely with Christians, or completely with atheists, shouldn't matter to your overall happiness, right?
No, this is an incorrect understanding. First of all, that would only be the case assuming I were completely perfected in love and charity. But I am not completely perfected yet, so I still experience frustration/dissapointment, etc and that is perfectly ok. The idea is not to suppress your emotions, a Christian should feel no shame in his feelings even if they are contrary to the gospel.
But more importantly, being perfected in love and charity is not the same as indifference. It's not a cold detatchment devoid of emotion. For example, Jesus lamented his faithless generation, he felt compassion for them and said they were like lost sheep without a shepard.
The confusion comes from your wrong identification with your mind/emotions as your self. The Self awareness I am seeking, involves a realization of your identity as one with the eternal I AM consciousness which is ever unchanging. The experiencer never changes but the content of experience is constant change. THe confusion comes from the fact that you think your emotions are part of you whereas the computer screen is not Youre drawing the line in the wrong place. In actuality, the computer screen and your emotions are both part of the ever changing world, whereas the light of Christ, is ever beyond the world. That is why Jesus said that he had conquered the world. So Jesus could still lament and feel sad over atheists and sinners who don't understand the unlimited love and glory of God instead must suffer the many afflictions that life in the world brings. Yet even those his emotions might be of sadness, he would ever be aware of himself as one with God, one with unlimited peace, wisdom and bliss. So he could never feel sad or despair in the way an ordinary man does because his understanding of any situation is so far above that of an ordinary man.
Sometimes we do have to deal with emotions which are contrary to the gospel. for example, we are taught to love our neighbors. Well sometimes I run into someone I dont love. sometimes I even feel hatred for someone. By trying to suppress that feeling and pretend that I love the person when I really don't, is the wrong approach. The right approach is to behave charitably toward the person regardless of what I am feeling on the inside, reminding myself that despite that persons glaring imperfections, I am not perfect either, so who am I to judge? We are going to be judged according to the standard with which we judge the world. So if we can find it in our heart to forgive people, God will forgive us. Beautiful, right?
But perhaps more importantly, it is a wrong under
Edited by Deviate (10/07/13 03:36 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18945389 - 10/07/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Who are you to say how gods going to judge people? Other christians have a different take on this. And this is what I don't get.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Deviate
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Icelander]
#18945410 - 10/07/13 03:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Who are you to say how gods going to judge people? Other christians have a different take on this. And this is what I don't get.
The Bible says so. I don't know of any Christians who have a different take on this.
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Icelander
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18945433 - 10/07/13 03:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You're kidding right. Most christians I've met believe you have to accept jesus as your personal savior to be forgiven and accepted by god.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Deviate
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Icelander]
#18945475 - 10/07/13 03:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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No I am not kidding. In the Bible, Jesus says that you will be judged by the standard with which you judge the world, that if you forgive others you will be forgiven but if you do not forgive others, your heavenly father will not forgive you.
I have never heard any Christian of any denomination deny this to be true.
Now whether you have to "accept Jesus" to ever heaven (can you clarify what you mean by that? It sounds pretty vague to me) is a separate issue. When Jesus said those words, he was speaking to believers, not atheists.
As a Catholic, my church teaches that anyone from any religion can be saved provided they lived a morally upright life and tried to follow God as best they knew how, which is what the Bible teaches (in the book of acts Peter says "I now see that God is no respector of persons but rather anyone from any nation who lives uprightly and in fear of Him is acceptable to Him). The Catholic Church also teaches that upon one's death, God makes a "final appeal" to them, so even someone who was a sinner their entire life, would be given one last chance to turn back to God and be saved.
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Icelander
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18945549 - 10/07/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Now whether you have to "accept Jesus" to ever heaven (can you clarify what you mean by that? It sounds pretty vague to me) is a separate issue. When Jesus said those words, he was speaking to believers, not atheists.
John 14:6
Viewing the King James Version. Click to switch to 1611 King James Version of John 14:6.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
The fundys interpret this to mean that one must accept jesus as ones personal savior to be forgiven and accepted by god. You're not going to tell me you are unaware of that? I grew up in the Baptist church so I know.
How do people receive this free gift of salvation?
The Bible says to repent (Luke 13:5). That means to be sorry for, and to turn away from, sinful habits. The King James Bible says: “If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved” (Romans 10:9).
Born-again Christians are just people like you and me who have said with their mouth that they are now making Jesus Christ the Lord of their life. They also genuinely believe in their heart that God raised Him from the dead. According to the Bible, they are then saved.
What type of prayer do Christians pray to God when they become saved and born again? Something along the lines of what follows is enough — but you can make it personal by using your own words.
A guide to what to pray:
“Dear Father in Heaven, I realize that I am a sinner and need forgiveness. I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sin. I am willing to turn from my sins and lead the life you want me to lead. I now invite Jesus Christ to come into my heart and I receive Him into my life as my personal Savior. I am willing, by God's grace, to follow and obey Christ as the Lord of my life.”
Like I said what I don't get is if god is informing all the christians of what is true how come they don't agree?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Deviate
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18945723 - 10/07/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Because they have different minds and because of the human ego, pride and ignorance result in disputes and sectarianism. The Bible warns about that too.
There is one truth but different minds see it differently. None of the verses you posted actually say that a man must believe in Jesus. Some Christians might interpret it that way, but does the Bible actually say that? No. When Jesus said he was no one came to the Father but by Him, he didn't say that he was incapable of saving someone who didn't believe in him during their earth life. Jesus told his followers that he had been given all power in heaven and on earth. Assuming he was that powerful, I think it would clearly be within his ability to save someone who did not know him during their time on earth but never the less was a righteous and morally upright person.
So I don't really understand what you are confused about. Why should all Christians agree? It's not like the moment you call yourself a Christian, God comes down from heaven and corrects all your misunderstandings. No, being at a Christian is something you have to work at, very hard in fact. Overcoming the human ego and fallen consciousness is the greatest challenge of humanity. Merely calling oneself a Christian says nothing about how far along in this process one is. Perhaps it is the case that God is informing all Christians and all who reach a certain point on the path, do more or less agree. Alhough cant you see how being raised in a certain church which taught a particular version of the truth might cause one to continue believing in that version even if they were spiritually evolved enough to accept a deeper understanding?
You also need to remember that while we receive protection and assistance from God and his angels, there are demons who are enemies of the truth working against us. They are the reason that humanity has failed to progress further spiritually despite God's revelation of the truth to us. They will do everything in their power to confuse and deceive us, especially when it comes to religion. They promote heresies and disputes and the splitting of Christ's church into opposing factions.
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Icelander
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18945935 - 10/07/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Christians should agree so they know what the fuck their talking about. It's the whole of the baptist sect and much more who believe that. It's not just a handful of people. This is a major point of contention in the religion and it's not a small matter when you are talking about salvation. If you're wrong and they're right you could be leading people towards damnation.
And I think it was you who said that just because it's not stated in the bible directly doesn't mean it's not true.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Deviate
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Icelander]
#18946093 - 10/07/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes and? As I said, demons introduce heresies and in an attempt to distort the truth and misguide people. My answer was an adequate response to you question.
As for me leading people to damnation, I highly doubt that. I am not telling people not to believe in Jesus. If anything, I am promoting more stringent requirements for salvation than the Baptists. I am saying, don't stop merely at accepting Jesus, but pursue virtue and righteousness. TDo your best to follow Christ's teachings in your own life instead of just expecting all your sins to be forgiven regardless of how much an effort you make to obey the commandments.
I've heard baptists argue that you should be so grateful for the gift of salvation that you will obey the commandments. Well guess what? I wasn't. I still wanted to sin even after believing in the gospel. Then baptists might say something like, then you didn't really believe enough or you weren't actually saved in the first place. Well then what was I supposed to do? I couldn't make myself believe more than I already did or make myself thankful enough not to sin when i really didn't feel that way. ALl I could do was pray to God for his grace and do my best to change my own behavior in the hope that God would see my effort and my cries and choose to have mercy on me. And that is exactly what the catholic church says to do, we are supposed to pray and do good works, not because we merit our own salvation, but because we merit grace when we do these things.
THe baptist position really does not make sense to me. They cant have it both ways, if the baptists are right, then you could go out killing people and still be saved, unless of course youre supposed to feel so thankful for your salvation that all of a sudden you love God and want to serve him. But then if you dont feel that way, maybe youre not actually saved, which destroys the whole assurance of salvation thing. So how they can preach assurance of salvation and at the same time say maybe youre not saved if youre still in sin? To me that is no different from the catholic position that we dont have assurance of salvation.
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Icelander
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18946193 - 10/07/13 06:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah it's some crazy shit those fundies believe. I do like your approach better for sure. Really my only objections to religion are with the fundies usually. They try to control your trip and aren't satisfied to just do theirs. If you want to believe in jesus or buddha or santa it's no real skin off my nose unless you aim to try and force me and I don't see you doing that.
btw I ultimately forgive everyone for everything as I've stated several times here over the years. We didn't choose to be human and human nature includes some really poor behavior and we all do it. In the end we are all doing our best even if we don't manage it very well much of the time. I feel a lot of empathy for humanity actually. That doesn't keep me from getting pissed off at our shenanigans though.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Deviate
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Icelander]
#18947140 - 10/07/13 10:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think that is why Jesus taught us to forgive. You're right that we really are doing our best, the majority of the time at least and people who do stupid and unkind things usually do them because they don't know any better or because of hurt and pain which they don't know how to deal with.
I'm not worried about trying to convince other people what to do believe, because the Bible says that our responsibility is only to warn other people about the Kingdom of God and the coming judgement which will separate the righteous from the wicked. We are also supposed to speak of the Glory of God and proclaim his salvation and his wondrous deeds. Praise the Lord.
Once we have done that, it's up to them to choose whether or not to believe it and whatever choice they make does not affect our ability to love God. Trying to force your beliefs on someone against their will, is against the will of God. If God wanted that person to believe something by force, he would make them believe it himself.
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Icelander
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18947571 - 10/07/13 11:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Bible says that our responsibility is only to warn other people about the Kingdom of God and the coming judgement which will separate the righteous from the wicked.
But aren't the "wicked" just misguided same as you and me and for the reasons you mentioned among others? And what is this separation? Why would god separate itself from itself? Isn't it the creator and everything part of everything else which is god?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Connection
Wise Man!!



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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Icelander]
#18947717 - 10/08/13 12:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I pick the spaghetti god.
-------------------- Life is an expression of countless endless words that are true for you and the universe and all the time it will come to your mind life and spirit of humanity and your life you are truly grateful to be alive you are the great one of this universe you are wise and truly endless in your nature...
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CosmicJoke
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18947727 - 10/08/13 12:34 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Deviate said: What makes you think that posting on the shroomery is incompatible with my greatest aspirations?
It's not posting on The Shroomery that's incompatible as much as the sense of persuading others to join your cause. I suspect the only gift you have is (as Ice might say selfishly) to work on yourself, and the other motives will be called out as phony, just as they have been. Create a space in yourself where others can do what they need to do.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Deviate
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Icelander]
#18948178 - 10/08/13 04:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Icelander said: But aren't the "wicked" just misguided same as you and me and for the reasons you mentioned among others?
Indeed, the wicked are often misguided just like us which is why our Lord Jesus Christ instructed us to pray for them. In fact, if you recall he even prayed for the soldiers as they were crucifying him (forgive them father for they know not what they do). Do you see what a radical departure this is from the mindset most people have? Jesus Christ taught us to look at life from a radically different perspective, a complete overhaul of one's attitude is required in order to follow him and I find that extremely fascinating.
However, the excuse of being misguided doesn't mean the wicked don't have to experience the consequences of their actions. On the contrary, the fact that we experience the consequences of our actions is one of God's laws. Originally, before the fall of man, we didn't need to experience such severe consequences to what we did in order to learn, because we had a conscious connection to the Lord our God. However, because we decided to turn away from the Lord of Hosts and rebel against him like the devil and his angels, we lost that intimate connection with the Lord God and thus we entered the school of hard knocks. In the school of hard knocks, God will not always direct us what to do. Instead he lets us make our own choices, the only catch being that we must then experience the consequences of our choices.
I have made many mistakes in my life and as a result, I had to experience the consequences of my mistakes. From these experiences, I gradually learned about the laws of God (or as a secular person might put it, the reality of the world) and this knowledge began to empower me to make better decisions, decisions that are more in line with God's purpose and will. So if I had to experience the consequences of my actions, why should not the wicked also have to?
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And what is this separation?
Matthew 13:24-30:
The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
The Parable of the Tares Explained
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! The Parable of the Hidden Treasure
Mathew 25-30: When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' 37 Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' 40 The King will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' 41 Then he will say to those on his left, `Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44 They also will answer, `Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 45 He will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
That is the separation and judgment.
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Why would god separate itself from itself? Isn't it the creator and everything part of everything else which is god?
Indeed everything is part of everything but as you can see, God has chosen to create individual beings out of himself and in the case of mankind he has chosen to entrust those individual beings with many of his own attributes (God made man in his own image), freedom among them. He also created a beautiful planet for these beings to inhabit and gave it to them. In this way, God gets to experience his own limitless eternal being from an infinite array of completely unique perspectives, as he plays hide and seek with himself through the eyes and hearts of his offspring, eventually rejoicing with them when they find their way to home Him.
However, you must remember that God is good. Although he desired for his creation to be free, he also desired for it to grow, yay even to flourish. He wished for his people to find happiness and meaning in their lives and to learn how to use his energy intelligent and beautiful ways. In fact, we can look at life as a grand opportunity to experiment with God's energy. Everything that we do, is a manipulation of one basic energy, which Christianity calls the Lord our God. Sin is a misuse of God's energy and so when we commit sin, we create an energetic vector which will find its way back to us as part of a natural process set in place by the Lord our God when he created the universe. The purpose of this kind of law was to ensure that evil would not overtake the world and his creation would not self destruct.
What is evil? It is that which is out of sync with the laws of God, the holy one of Israel. Lets take stealing for example. Lets assume that you planted an orchard and you harvested 100 bushels of golden delicious and 50 bushels of jonagold. Then in the night, while you slept exhausted from a long day of harvesting apples, I snuck into your orchard and stole all of your apples. Why is this wrong? because since I did not grow the apples myself, I do not deserve to have the apples. The reason for this is because if everyone just relied on stealing apples from each other to get their apples, before long there would no longer be any apples because someone needs to actually GROW apples in order for us to have apples. So illl gotten gains are evil because they are unsustainable, they lead to negative growth and destruction and instead peace and harmony.
So God gives us the freedom to experiment with evil and experience its pleasures and its consequences. However, he does not allow us to experiment with evil forever. He places a limit on it out of respect for the good.
Recall now that as you said, everyhing is part of everything or as the Catholic Church puts it, God is the "all in all". So from the knowledge that the Lord our God is fundamentally one, we can look at individual souls as extensions of the creator. In the second parable I gave you, Jesus affirms the oneness of all things by informing us that whatever we do to each other, we do to him.
Essenstially God designed his creation with self correction mechanisms in place. Those parts of himself which do not function in accordance with his laws (unrepentent evil doers) are removed and burnt up just as you would throw away a tool that wasn't working or fire a baby sitter who abused your children. God could in fact destroy us the moment we rebel against Him (indeed, the wages of sin is death), but because he is loving and merciful, he allows us many years to turn our lives around before the final judgment. He does not enjoy destroying evil doers but he would rather do that, then allow evil to reign forever. Some souls simply will not change their evil ways. When he comes to them at their death with his "final appeal" they are given the choice to enter his presence or depart into the lake of fire, where according to Jesus there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. These wicked souls would rather choose that option than expose themselves to the glorious presence of the almighty. The almighty then obliges.
If you were really a former Christian, how is it that you must ask questions like why God would separate sinners from the righteous? Perhaps you never truly understood Christianity and thats why it didn't seem to work for you. Honestly, your questions trouble me, as they indicate large gaps in your understanding of the Lord of heaven's armies and our relationship to Him.
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Yogi1
Squatchin

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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18948189 - 10/08/13 05:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Deviate said: No I am not kidding. In the Bible, Jesus says that you will be judged by the standard with which you judge the world, that if you forgive others you will be forgiven but if you do not forgive others, your heavenly father will not forgive you.
I have never heard any Christian of any denomination deny this to be true.
Now whether you have to "accept Jesus" to ever heaven (can you clarify what you mean by that? It sounds pretty vague to me) is a separate issue. When Jesus said those words, he was speaking to believers, not atheists.
As a Catholic, my church teaches that anyone from any religion can be saved provided they lived a morally upright life and tried to follow God as best they knew how, which is what the Bible teaches (in the book of acts Peter says "I now see that God is no respector of persons but rather anyone from any nation who lives uprightly and in fear of Him is acceptable to Him). The Catholic Church also teaches that upon one's death, God makes a "final appeal" to them, so even someone who was a sinner their entire life, would be given one last chance to turn back to God and be saved.
The bible also says gays go to hell for liking penis and slaves should obey their masters as they obey their god.
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Deviate
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Yogi1]
#18948195 - 10/08/13 05:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Why is it that you you think you must inform me of what the Bible says?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18948255 - 10/08/13 05:42 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Be troubled all you want. I wanted to hear your answer to see if you are actually different than most other christians.
I think your god sucks frankly. "Their will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. "
I'll stick with having empathy for others and doing my best and trying not to pay evil with more evil.
But you knock yourself out if it floats your boat. Fortunately imo your views (if they can be called yours) are not in a majority here.
and
Nor do I think the adherence to a organization with such a horrific history up to the present of atrocities is something that I think jesus would have any part of. Seriously. (Don't make me post the lists)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (10/08/13 06:56 AM)
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Icelander
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18948257 - 10/08/13 05:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Deviate said: Why is it that you you think you must inform me of what the Bible says?
For the very same reason you feel the need to come here and preach to us.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Deviate
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Icelander]
#18948547 - 10/08/13 08:22 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You take me so seriously.
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Deviate
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18948580 - 10/08/13 08:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Christianity is just one crazy religion in this crazy world of ours. its an ancient tool kit for diminishing the human ego and that is what i find so interesting about it.
But your expectations of it seem so completely unrealistic to me.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Icelander]
#18948623 - 10/08/13 09:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Icelander said: Saul called Paul of Tarsus
For sure one of the worse things to ever befall Christianity. Beware of the zealot convert.
If there is anything to get out of Christianity the Gnostics are the ones who got it imo.
Yay Ice!
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18949041 - 10/08/13 11:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: Christianity is just one crazy religion in this crazy world of ours. its an ancient tool kit for diminishing the human ego and that is what i find so interesting about it.
But your expectations of it seem so completely unrealistic to me.
I expect an institution that proclaims and sets moral standards for human behavior to be and example of those behaviors. When I took the time to Google "atrocities committed by the Catholic church" I was amazed at the amount and sickened and saddened.
If it's an ancient tool for diminishing human ego, which I have serious doubts about, it seems to have had the opposite effect in way too many cases. If I'm to take spirituality seriously I have to avoid that road.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Deviate
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Icelander]
#18951871 - 10/08/13 09:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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thats fair albeit unrealistic expectation. However, what so called Chrisitains have done throughout history really doesn't effect one's own ability to follow the teachings to ego transcendence.
its like saying guns are bad because they have killed people. would that prevent you from using a gun if a situation arose where you needed one though?
All Im doing is reporting my experience. I used to be one of those spiritual but non but not religious people and a devout atheist prior to that. I owned a Bible for the sole purpose of disproving it.
After expewriencing ego transcendence on drugs, I decided I want to pursue spiritual growth, but I did not know to do it, besides reading some spiritual books and pathetic attempts at meditation which I usually became bored with after 10 or 15 minutes. I was solely dependent on drugs for my spiritual experiences and it was very frustrating. yet i could never have imagined myself joining a church, alone a christian church. i also believed that gnostic christianity was the only right christianity.
i even got caught up in the teachings of a new age organization (which I now believe is incredibly corrupt) that mixed gnostic concepts with eastern ones. this orginzation pretty much did nothing but critisice the catholic church non stop.
i started to feel disollusioned because i no longer believed (actually i never really believed in the first place, but some part of me wanted it to be true because i kept reading it) in the new age teachings. it was one of those websites with channeled information, im sure youve seen them before. Yet I found blatant misinformation about the real world which could be proven with a quick google search presented as channelled information from Jesus Christ. I figured if I cant even trust "Jesus" on earthly matters, why should I trust him on heavenly matters?
so that ended my foray into the new age movement. yet i was still left with this problem. I was very unhappy in my life, always had been except when i was a young child. ever since starting kindergarten, i had been pretty miserable except during summers when i could be alone. I always struggled to fit and get along with the other kids. in college, i struggled with not knowing what to study, because i didnt really want to do anything. But I knew that I had experienced something very special on psychedelics, something i could not forget no matter how hard i tried. I felt like they offered a promise to heal my messed up psyche that caused me to be so miserable all my life. I felt like i had contacted the divine. yet i could not seem to integrate the experiences into my every day life. I became very depressed because nothing in life was satisfactory to me. every time id hear a beautiful piece of music or catch sight of a sunset, i would feel filled with a longing, a longing for the paradise id experienced on psychedelics.
but i just didnt understand how to make it a reality rather than just a fantasy. the reason the new age website appealed to me was because in part because it offered spiritual "tools", which were mostly incredibly long prayers which were so ridiculously long that you never wanted to begin saying one for fear that you wouldn't have the motivation to finish. but thats when it hit me. i realized that the new age website, was really just a ripoff of traditional religion. sure it presented as being superior and all but when it really came down to it, what did they say to do? to pray. a couple years later, i found a good LSD connection which was a new drug for me, in the past I had used only marjuana and mushrooms.
for some reason, LSD made me feel compelled to study the Bible and the catholic church. it was quite strange but every time i would trip, i would feel like i had suddenly become a devout christian and i actually liked the feeling. LSD also allowed me to peer deep into my psyche and explore things like what effect prayer had. I could see how saying hail marys caused certain energies to flow into my mind, which brought me nearer to God. So LSD helped to give me the essential thing i had been lacking before, faith. on LSD it was obvious to me that things like praying, going to church, receiving sacraments had effects on the psyche. In fact, thats why people do them. Thats why almost every culture that has ever existed has performed rituals. People do them because they work. It might seem strange to a scientific minded person, which I used to be, but thats just the kind of beings we are.
so after seeing that these things work, i decided to experiment more with these new forms of energy. I became catholic and started going to mass and receiving communion, which had such a powerful effect on me that i cannot believe it was mere placebo, especially because i was so dissolutioned with life at the time that i didn't really care that i was receiving communion or expect anything from it.
i also began studying the Bible and i realized that i had been making things unecessarily complicated and confusing. the Bible to me, is basically the story of good and evil and the message is that good will be rewarded while evil will be punished. the reason its so long is because humans are so thick skulled that we need it drilled home to us continually.
but anyway, i now finally understand what this spirituality business that has confused me so many for so many years is all about. its simply being good instead of evil. it comes down to having good will towards all people. Its so simple.
The different spiritual tools like prayer, meditation, sacraments, etc are aids to help us change our hearts from evil to good. practicing spirituality in a structered way, like under the guise of a particular religion, is a very good way to instill good spiritual habits. Some souls need that structure and I think I am one of them, because I am so disorganized. another reason ive found that a church or outside influence is helpful is because it tells you what to do. if instead you create your own spiritual practice, your ego will trick you into creating one that it doesn't find threatening.
so thats how i came to be a practicing catholic and its nice. its nice to meet other people in your church who wouldnt hesitate to help you if you ever were in trouble, its nice to meet people with spiritual interests in this insanely materialistic country, its nice to have a priest you can trust and one of the priests at my church is probably the nicest person ive ever met. he is from india and everyone loves him.
the inside of the church is beautiful, the music is beautiful, i love the medieval feel to it. you see, the catholic church is an extremely medieval organization. very little has changed in the past 1,000 years and I have always been fascinated by that time period in history, so the fact that there is this relic leftover from another era and I can go there every week and do pretty much the exact same thing that my ancestors did in Europe in the middle ages, i find pretty cool.
i just feel like christianity and religion in general is so misunderstood in modern times. i look at it as a means giving structure to the spiritual life. it's really just a reflection of the human psyche. you see, the stories in the Bible, the mythology, the image of a man hanging on a cross, the beautiful church architecture which glorifies God, the rituals, etc of all these things have powerful psychological effects which help reinforce the teachings. the reason humans developed these things and they caught on so well, is because they are powerful images and stories.
sure, we could make spirituality all dry and boring. we could explain the concepts without any stories, no noah's ark, no david and golieth, no epic battles, no kings, princes, magicians and beautiful maidens, no adam and eve and a serpent, no churches, etc. but those are the very things which add color and humanity to it. they make it more fun and interesting.
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Icelander
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Re: The only true happiness, is happiness in the Lord [Re: Deviate]
#18952841 - 10/09/13 04:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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thats fair albeit unrealistic expectation. However, what so called Chrisitains have done throughout history really doesn't effect one's own ability to follow the teachings to ego transcendence.
its like saying guns are bad because they have killed people. would that prevent you from using a gun if a situation arose where you needed one though?
What makes that unrealistic? And where do you draw the line at what is acceptable in the representatives supposedly ordained and inspired by God? And why does one need to involve themselves in such stuff if it isn't healthy? I could be wrong as it's been so long since I've read the bible but didn't Jesus reject the religious leaders of his time and preach against what they were doing in the name of god?
And the gun analogy is not good. You don't need to be a practicing catholic or whatever to seek out a full and rewarding spiritual life. Right?
And how could spirituality be dry and boring if it's real and different from what most people are doing?
Edited by Icelander (10/09/13 04:50 AM)
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