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cycline
pan-informationist

Registered: 09/11/13
Posts: 164
Loc: Dissoversum
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'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland
#18939152 - 10/06/13 07:35 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24386229
Quote:
The Irish health minister has published a plan to make the state "tobacco-free" by 2025.
Dr James Reilly has defined a "tobacco-free Ireland" as a state where less than 5% of the population smoke.
According to the latest figures, 22% of people aged 15 and over regularly smoke cigarettes in the Republic of Ireland.
The plan makes 60 recommendations to significantly reduce smoking over the next 12 years. Tobacco would still be available, but at an increased cost.
The recommendations also include the introduction of a ban on smoking in cars where children are present and new on-the-spot fines for breaches of smoking laws. 'De-normalisation'
The plan calls for greater restrictions on the types of outlets from which tobacco products can be sold, advocating a ban on all self-service cigarette vending machines and greater regulation of tobacco retailers.
It also sets out several recommendations for what it called the "de-normalisation" of tobacco use in Irish society.
The health minister said: "Smoking is the leading cause of preventable death in Ireland.
"Each year at least 5,200 people die from diseases caused by tobacco use. This represents almost one in five of all deaths," Dr Reilly added.
The tobacco-free plan has been published almost a decade on from the Irish smoking ban.
In March 2004, the Republic of Ireland became the first state to introduce a total ban on smoking in the workplace, controversially including pubs and clubs in the legislation.
The ban has been largely hailed as a success, with a 97% compliance rate. 'Morally wrong'
Earlier this year, a study of the effects of the ban estimated that up to 3,726 smoking-related deaths were prevented since 2004.
Reacting to the latest initiative to eradicate tobacco use, a spokesman for smokers' group Forest Éireann told Irish broadcaster RTÉ it was "morally wrong to de-normalise smoking"
He said that would result in "stigmatising consumers of a legal product enjoyed by hundreds of thousands of adults throughout the country".
"Smokers contribute a huge amount of money to the government through tobacco taxation," he added.
"De-normalising tobacco will drive more and more people to the black market and the fringes of society."
The Tobacco Free Ireland report was compiled by the Tobacco Policy Review Group.
The group consists of 12 staff from the Irish Department of Health, the Irish Health Service Executive (HSE)and the National Tobacco Control Office.
-------------------- “To see a world in a grain of sand, And a heaven in a wildflower; Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, And eternity in an hour.” — Auguries of Innocence, William Blake
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Synthe
Gatorade me, bitch!



Registered: 11/10/12
Posts: 7,961
Loc: Three bags of Funyuns
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: cycline]
#18939190 - 10/06/13 07:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah it carries a lot of risks, I'm on the edge about this. But then again, who's really gonna go buy smokes illegally?
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ChRnZN
Din of Doom



Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 6,265
Loc: ADK
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Synthe]
#18939193 - 10/06/13 08:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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morally wrong my ass
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
― C.S. Lewis
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huffinglue
tryin to stay sober


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 450
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: ChRnZN]
#18939261 - 10/06/13 08:36 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You drive prices(taxes) high enough on anything and there will be a black market for it.
-------------------- I fucking hate grammer nazis! Yes, I can't spell. Yes, I don't have perfect grammer. I post from my phone and dont give a shit about people whose lifes are so boring they get off on putting people down for not having perfect fucking grammer, even though they know excactly what there saying.. Fuck You. It's just a ride mang...
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Synthe
Gatorade me, bitch!



Registered: 11/10/12
Posts: 7,961
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: huffinglue]
#18939277 - 10/06/13 08:41 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah but its a weaksauce drug. Back in prohibition, well, alcohol is a helluva drug. Nicotine on the other hand is like fuckin' coffee.
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huffinglue
tryin to stay sober


Registered: 09/26/08
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Synthe]
#18939283 - 10/06/13 08:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah, but not to quit. I've heard it compaired to gettin off heorin, although I have no scientific or personal experience with that. Yet.
-------------------- I fucking hate grammer nazis! Yes, I can't spell. Yes, I don't have perfect grammer. I post from my phone and dont give a shit about people whose lifes are so boring they get off on putting people down for not having perfect fucking grammer, even though they know excactly what there saying.. Fuck You. It's just a ride mang...
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Synthe
Gatorade me, bitch!



Registered: 11/10/12
Posts: 7,961
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: huffinglue]
#18939288 - 10/06/13 08:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think it's a safe bet that the majority of smokers would choose to be unaddicted if they could. I mean, if only there was a better way to get off the smokes, then at least if they banned them, the government could also give away free effective treatment. Of course what I'm talking about is idealistic and unrealistic, but if only, right? I lost family to lung cancer. It's a shitty fuckin drug.
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Synthe]
#18939408 - 10/06/13 09:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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As long as you can't go to jail for smoking it then I don't care.
Enough people smoke trying to be edgy.
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huffinglue
tryin to stay sober


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 450
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Synthe]
#18939448 - 10/06/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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well fuck yeah we don't want to be addicted to that shit. Not only cause its so bad for you, but the smell. The fuckin smell is gross and gets in EVERYTHING. I'm tryin to quit/cut down with ecigs. My mom hasn't touched a real cig in 15 months since she started ecigs. She quit when I quit alcohol. She says she still has cravings for a real one all the time though.
-------------------- I fucking hate grammer nazis! Yes, I can't spell. Yes, I don't have perfect grammer. I post from my phone and dont give a shit about people whose lifes are so boring they get off on putting people down for not having perfect fucking grammer, even though they know excactly what there saying.. Fuck You. It's just a ride mang...
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Chuckfinely
another round for me an my buddy

Registered: 06/27/13
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: huffinglue]
#18939538 - 10/06/13 10:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
huffinglue said: Yeah, but not to quit. I've heard it compaired to gettin off heorin, although I have no scientific or personal experience with that. Yet.
Not even close. I've heard of people getting maybe a little shakey, maybe a day or two of being agitated, but never 10 days of puking, cold sweats, and shaking so hard its difficult to talk
Its different for everyone though. I personally cant be addicted to cigg's. I smoked a pack a day for 4 years when i was young and it was cool, but as soon as the cool factor wore off I went cold turkey with no side effects and no cravings. To this day I can smoke a cig once a month if i take a bunch of benzo's and a cig will feel good, but it gets tossed within 3 puffs and i have no desire for another
On the other hand I have a friend who is having a hell of a time stopping smoking. Shortness of breath, agitation, craving, the whole nine yards. But the guy can cold turkey heroin and only get a little short of breath and a little sweaty for like 2 days, not violently sick like I would.
Different people I suppose 
On topic though I dont think they should control cig's to such an extent just like they shouldn't be controlling pot so harshly. It should be up to the individual on what they want to consume, not the government
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms



Registered: 04/09/11
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Synthe]
#18939850 - 10/06/13 11:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Synthe said: Yeah but its a weaksauce drug. Back in prohibition, well, alcohol is a helluva drug. Nicotine on the other hand is like fuckin' coffee.
Nicotine is very addictive. Don't underestimate it. There's a black market for cigarettes in Europe already. Also there was coffee prohibition in Europe a few hundred years ago and guess what happened.
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Synthe
Gatorade me, bitch!



Registered: 11/10/12
Posts: 7,961
Loc: Three bags of Funyuns
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#18940167 - 10/06/13 12:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know it's addictive, but it's not "fun" enough of a drug to buy illegally unless you were already addicted.
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Synthe]
#18940872 - 10/06/13 03:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's about time they started DE-normalizing that gnarly shit somewhere. Now I just need to move to ireland.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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topdog82
Death Spirit



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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#18940880 - 10/06/13 03:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lord_McLovin said:
Quote:
Synthe said: Yeah but its a weaksauce drug. Back in prohibition, well, alcohol is a helluva drug. Nicotine on the other hand is like fuckin' coffee.
Nicotine is very addictive. Don't underestimate it. There's a black market for cigarettes in Europe already. Also there was coffee prohibition in Europe a few hundred years ago and guess what happened. 
Damn, little did I know about the coffee thing
Also, you gotta get into the mind of a teenager. At the ripe age of 16, I was ready to do anything stupid and rebellious
IMO the key isnt illegalization. It is scientific information and regulation. Lets say that in the future you had an ID card. If you wanted to get a pack of cigarettes for the first time, you would have to watch a dcumentary on the pros and cons of smoking. Then, after 1 hour, you could go ahead an buy it. And every 100th pack of ciggies, you would have to rewatch the documentary
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: topdog82] 1
#18940890 - 10/06/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Maybe you should have to have graduated highschool before you can smoke ciggies
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Konyap]
#18940910 - 10/06/13 03:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Illyabo said: Maybe you should have to have graduated highschool before you can smoke ciggies
That law is already in place. You can't buy it unless you are 18. I think they should bump it up to the age of 21 and make them fully understand that health reprocussions of smoking
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: topdog82]
#18941001 - 10/06/13 03:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nobody knows the reprecusssions though, they know tobacco, they don't know what the other shit is.
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Synthe
Gatorade me, bitch!



Registered: 11/10/12
Posts: 7,961
Loc: Three bags of Funyuns
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: topdog82]
#18941063 - 10/06/13 04:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
Illyabo said: Maybe you should have to have graduated highschool before you can smoke ciggies
That law is already in place. You can't buy it unless you are 18. I think they should bump it up to the age of 21 and make them fully understand that health reprocussions of smoking
I'd be okay with it going up to 21, but it's already so normalized, I saw an episode of cops where
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Spiderbaby
?



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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Synthe]
#18941111 - 10/06/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Synthe said: Yeah it carries a lot of risks, I'm on the edge about this. But then again, who's really gonna go buy smokes illegally?
There is already a massive black market for cigarettes in this country due to heavy taxation. Although I could see a slow and long term effort against tobacco smoking being effective
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Achuma
Aluminium Fedora



Registered: 11/22/09
Posts: 865
Loc: Smegmaguay
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Konyap]
#18941170 - 10/06/13 04:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nicotine withdrawal is a massive bitch to go through. It took approximately 2 weeks to stop having cravings but it took approx 3 months to return to relative emotional stability. During that time I had basically constant anger, without provocation, which led in several instances to displaced violence (beating the shit out of the doorjamb of my apartment with a metal pot until my girlfriend got me to stop, was one example).
I quit because I knew it was killing me and causing suffering in my lungs and throat. Had I been forced to quit by the government reducing availability, I wouldn't view it as a divine sign that it's time to withdraw from tobacco. I would find the guy selling loosies for $3 apiece to stave off the anger problems.
I guess I am saying people will quit when they choose to. It's an act of willpower, not enforcement. I hope for the best though.
-------------------- Achuma's Psilocybe Extraction Pictorial
Pictured: crystalline extract derived from Psilocybe Cubensis. See link for detailed instructions, as well as a lengthy discussion on the properties of light.
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huffinglue
tryin to stay sober


Registered: 09/26/08
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Chuckfinely]
#18942238 - 10/06/13 08:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The part about different people withdrawing differently is right. The rest of your post just totally contridics itself.
-------------------- I fucking hate grammer nazis! Yes, I can't spell. Yes, I don't have perfect grammer. I post from my phone and dont give a shit about people whose lifes are so boring they get off on putting people down for not having perfect fucking grammer, even though they know excactly what there saying.. Fuck You. It's just a ride mang...
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Fungi
Psycho4ctive


Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 393
Loc: Melbourne
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: huffinglue]
#18942565 - 10/06/13 10:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you want to smoke, at least grow your own organic tobacco plants. The garbage you call cigarettes are full of pesticides, GMOs and other chemicals.
-------------------- Formerly known as Psycho4ctive To Fathom Hell or Soar Angelic, Just Take a Pinch of Psychedelic
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huffinglue
tryin to stay sober


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Posts: 450
Loc: Texas
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Fungi]
#18942821 - 10/06/13 11:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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But, there. So. Goooooood. Hmmmm. Like steak and potatoes. That hooks deep. I wish I wasnt addicted, honestly, but I also honestly don't want to quit. I love smoking. Except that damn smell.
-------------------- I fucking hate grammer nazis! Yes, I can't spell. Yes, I don't have perfect grammer. I post from my phone and dont give a shit about people whose lifes are so boring they get off on putting people down for not having perfect fucking grammer, even though they know excactly what there saying.. Fuck You. It's just a ride mang...
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: huffinglue]
#18943049 - 10/07/13 12:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Tobbaco farmers can get nicotine poisoning cutting their plants down, nicotine is a organic pesticide, smoking it is retarded. With or without the gmo, sketchy synthetic pesticides, and other gnarly additives. its bad enough on its own. You could kill yourself by drinking Ecigarette glycerin, or spilling enough on you and not cleaning it off. Ive heard 1 drop of pure nicotine would be fatal.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
Edited by musiclover420 (10/07/13 12:53 AM)
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms



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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Achuma]
#18943150 - 10/07/13 01:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achuma said: I quit because I knew it was killing me and causing suffering in my lungs and throat. Had I been forced to quit by the government reducing availability, I wouldn't view it as a divine sign that it's time to withdraw from tobacco. I would find the guy selling loosies for $3 apiece to stave off the anger problems.
I guess I am saying people will quit when they choose to. It's an act of willpower, not enforcement. I hope for the best though.
This sums it up pretty nicely. Come on guys, this is the shroomery, get over that "my drug is better than yours"-attitude, it makes you look silly. Prohibition of anything has always and will always backfire, how much more suffering do we need until we realize this?
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#18943766 - 10/07/13 08:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lord_McLovin said:
Quote:
Achuma said: I quit because I knew it was killing me and causing suffering in my lungs and throat. Had I been forced to quit by the government reducing availability, I wouldn't view it as a divine sign that it's time to withdraw from tobacco. I would find the guy selling loosies for $3 apiece to stave off the anger problems.
I guess I am saying people will quit when they choose to. It's an act of willpower, not enforcement. I hope for the best though.
This sums it up pretty nicely. Come on guys, this is the shroomery, get over that "my drug is better than yours"-attitude, it makes you look silly. Prohibition of anything has always and will always backfire, how much more suffering do we need until we realize this?
Maybe we could weanthe tobacco-addicted public off cigs using snus and ecigs?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cigarette
This time, the gov should sell e-liquid that is tobacco extract. The full taste and buzz of tobacco. None of the pure nicotine dizzy crap
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NWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: ChRnZN]
#18944302 - 10/07/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noodle473 said: morally wrong my ass
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
― C.S. Lewis
the article is quoting someone who is saying it's morally wrong to de-normalize smoking because it stigmatizes people. they aren't saying smoking is morally wrong.
I think this initiative isn't even that ground breaking. did you guys read it?
it seems pretty awesome to me
1) not letting people smoke in cars with children
2) banning self-service cigarette machines (likely preventing minors from buying them)
3) We have passed similar legislation here in the USA like not letting people smoke within certain distances from doors, getting rid of "smoking sections" in many restaurants etc.
the less people smoking cigarettes the better. its not like they are making it illegal they are just discouraging it.
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: NWlight]
#18944599 - 10/07/13 12:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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freaking I would laugh if the government figured out how much throat and lung cancer patients cost on society and just put that out through cigarettes.
They never would do anything remotely logical or sane though because they have vices as much as we do.
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BittrBuffalo
Deaconica

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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: cycline]
#18945437 - 10/07/13 03:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The position of Health Minister is essentially that of the Surgeon General. Of course smoking is bad for you. They're not trying to outlaw smoking outright, they're just trying to discourage people from smoking. I was in school in Ireland right after the smoking ban was passed, and people had mixed feelings about it. Smoking in pubs had been part of Irish culture, but most smokers I had met that were forced to smoke outside essentially said that while it's a pain to step outside for a smoke, everyone's probably better off for it.
This isn't anything that isn't already happened in America, or anywhere else, really. You know, "Smoke-Free America" and all that. Shit--go buy a pack in Canada or Australia and you'll get a bunch of gory pictures of blackened lungs and rotted tracheas. As far as I know, cigarette vending machines have been illegal (federally) in the US for a few years now. Nothing to be outraged over.
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
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RockyRaccoon



Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 4,645
Loc: tromaville
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: cycline]
#18945440 - 10/07/13 03:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Damn it. Let the smokers smoke!
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Rootless
Stranger

Registered: 08/29/13
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: RockyRaccoon]
#18945539 - 10/07/13 04:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Addiction is nothing to mess with. Especially when you put someone into a corner like that.
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RockyRaccoon



Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 4,645
Loc: tromaville
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Rootless]
#18945546 - 10/07/13 04:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rootless said: Addiction is nothing to mess with. Especially when you put someone into a corner like that.
You're right. If this actually happened, there would be a huge smokers rebellion.
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dokunai
Cactus, Cannabis, Cubensis

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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: RockyRaccoon]
#18945886 - 10/07/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Smoking is shitty and I deeply hate the tobacco companies. My mom died from smoking.
But, I also think there are certain types of decisions we shouldn't make for people, and this is one of them. Many people despise weed and other drugs as much as I dislike tobacco, but I certainly do not want them deciding if pot or whatever else is OK for me to do to my own body.
I'm all for preventitive measures and help for smokers to quit. But, banning tocacco is never going to be the answer. Do you want the DEA/ATF/etc kicking down your neighbor's door in full SWAT gear screaming "get on the ground, where are the fucking Marlboros?"
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huffinglue
tryin to stay sober


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 450
Loc: Texas
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: dokunai]
#18946497 - 10/07/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hahaha. That last part got me. Funny shit right there. Sad thing is, I could see that happening eventually...
-------------------- I fucking hate grammer nazis! Yes, I can't spell. Yes, I don't have perfect grammer. I post from my phone and dont give a shit about people whose lifes are so boring they get off on putting people down for not having perfect fucking grammer, even though they know excactly what there saying.. Fuck You. It's just a ride mang...
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: ChRnZN]
#18946762 - 10/07/13 08:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noodle473 said: morally wrong my ass
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
― C.S. Lewis
Its very sad that this pattern has persisted for so long
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dokunai
Cactus, Cannabis, Cubensis

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 1,878
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: huffinglue]
#18946827 - 10/07/13 08:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
huffinglue said: Hahaha. That last part got me. Funny shit right there. Sad thing is, I could see that happening eventually...
That's exactly how I felt when writing it. Kind of funny but maybe not too far off where this might be headed.
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Posts: 19,563
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: dokunai]
#18947800 - 10/08/13 01:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would laugh if people started getting raided for cigarettes. At least it would show the world how the rest of us counterculture types interested in things deemed illegal by oppressive governments. At least nicotine is actually hurting people. And I love that C.S Lewis quote.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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BittrBuffalo
Deaconica

Registered: 05/19/13
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: musiclover420]
#18948673 - 10/08/13 09:22 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think you guys are seriously misunderstanding what's going on here. Nobody is making cigarettes illegal in Ireland. They're just trying to discourage people from using them. Making them illegal would be absolutely retarded--it would be impossible to force everyone to quit and the state would lose revenue obtained through taxation over it. Besides, who gives a shit if smoking is considered "not normal"? It's already not the norm, in fact that's why teenagers do it. Are you really that concerned about fitting in?
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: BittrBuffalo]
#18949597 - 10/08/13 01:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
BittrBuffalo said: I think you guys are seriously misunderstanding what's going on here. Nobody is making cigarettes illegal in Ireland. They're just trying to discourage people from using them. Making them illegal would be absolutely retarded--it would be impossible to force everyone to quit and the state would lose revenue obtained through taxation over it. Besides, who gives a shit if smoking is considered "not normal"? It's already not the norm, in fact that's why teenagers do it. Are you really that concerned about fitting in?
It doesn't matter if its still legal there, they're artificially inflating the price of cigarettes in spite of smokers.
There's no appeasement between me and busy body assholes
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BittrBuffalo
Deaconica

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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Repertoire89] 1
#18951450 - 10/08/13 07:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey, man--doctors tell patients to quit smoking all the time. Does that make them busybodies? He's the Minister of Health, not your next door neighbor. I think he's qualified to speak on the matter and discouraging smoking is kind of in his wheelhouse.
Artificial inflation is the name of the game. Perceived value is what determines a "going rate". Monetary value is the abstract association of how much energy a population is willing to trade for a commodity. If you want a product to go down in price, get yourself and at least several thousand others in your area to quit buying it. It's supply and demand. Pushers/governments know that peddling a physically addictive substance will reliably produce repeat customers. The government wants its cut for what's being sold on its territory. If you're not interested in participating in that, well, I guess it's time to quit.
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
Edited by BittrBuffalo (10/08/13 08:22 PM)
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Repertoire89]
#18951650 - 10/08/13 08:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
BittrBuffalo said: Hey, man--doctors tell patients to quit smoking all the time. Does that make them busybodies? He's the Minister of Health, not your next door neighbor. I think he's qualified to speak on the matter and discouraging smoking is kind of in his wheelhouse.
Artificial inflation is the name of the game. Perceived value is what determines a "going rate". Monetary value is the abstract association of how much energy a population is willing to trade for a commodity. If you want a product to go down in price, get yourself and at least several thousand others in your area to quit buying it. It's supply and demand. Pushers/governments know that peddling a physically addictive substance will reliably produce repeat customers. The government wants its cut for what's being sold on its territory. If you're not interested in participating in that, well, I guess it's time to quit.
Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
There's no appeasement between me and busy body assholes
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BittrBuffalo
Deaconica

Registered: 05/19/13
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Repertoire89]
#18951673 - 10/08/13 08:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I still don't see how the Minister of Health qualifies as a busybody asshole if he's telling people they shouldn't smoke because it's bad for your health.
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: BittrBuffalo]
#18951850 - 10/08/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
BittrBuffalo said: I still don't see how the Minister of Health qualifies as a busybody asshole if he's telling people they shouldn't smoke because it's bad for your health.
And creating an artificial surcharge for cigarettes, like a busybody asshole.
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BittrBuffalo
Deaconica

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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Repertoire89]
#18952040 - 10/08/13 10:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's all an artificial imposition, money is an idea that has no inherent value, man...
So essentially, he's telling you what you don't want to hear and taking advantage of your addiction by raising the prices of your substance of choice? If you were Irish, that is...
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: BittrBuffalo]
#18952318 - 10/08/13 11:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
BittrBuffalo said: It's all an artificial imposition, money is an idea that has no inherent value, man...
So essentially, he's telling you what you don't want to hear and taking advantage of your addiction by raising the prices of your substance of choice? If you were Irish, that is...
You falsely assume that I'm a smoker. Money is not an idea, it is a form of currency with relative value to actual commodities which people have to work for - trading time from their already short lives.
He's not telling me what I don't want to hear, he's robbing people by imposing arbitrary taxes under the guise of "helping" his victims. No one wants his help, go ask smokers how much they want his help.
Busy body assholes like the men behind that "tobacco free plan" make me sick, they're the bane of humanity.
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Spiderbaby
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Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 1,439
Loc: Ireland
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Repertoire89]
#18954837 - 10/09/13 03:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Given the massive amount of money tobacco usage costs the state in medical expenses and given that tobacco products cost pennies to produce I think it is fitting that it is heavily taxed
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Spiderbaby]
#18954929 - 10/09/13 03:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Spiderbaby said: Given the massive amount of money tobacco usage costs the state in medical expenses and given that tobacco products cost pennies to produce I think it is fitting that it is heavily taxed
What about food? Heart disease is running rampant, should fat people and the out of shape be taxed heavily for their food or just everyone?
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Spiderbaby
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Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 1,439
Loc: Ireland
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Repertoire89]
#18954957 - 10/09/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's the thing tobacco is a drug people don't really need so it's easy to tax that but food is necessary so taxing it heavily would be unfair. You could argue that unhealthy foods could be taxed heavily but many unhealthy foods are only unhealthy if eaten as part of an unhealthy diet and lifestyle.
So it would probably be the most fair to everyone to just heavily fine fat people who are out of shape. Also the parents of fat children should be fined heavily depending on how fat their children are.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Spiderbaby]
#18955040 - 10/09/13 03:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alternately they could mind their own business and let smokers buy their cigarettes for reasonable prices.
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Spiderbaby
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Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 1,439
Loc: Ireland
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Repertoire89]
#18955055 - 10/09/13 03:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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And let who decide what prices are reasonable, tobacco companies?
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Spiderbaby]
#18955188 - 10/09/13 04:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spiderbaby said: And let who decide what prices are reasonable, tobacco companies? 
That's far more reasonable price wise than the tobacco companies + heavy arbitrary government taxes.
This is a prime example of why I don't care about people and their liberties anymore, or any "injustices" which befall humanity. The population at large support their own oppression, they vote for heavier taxes, new wars, new theocratic bans on what they're "allowed" to do.
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Spiderbaby
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Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 1,439
Loc: Ireland
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Repertoire89]
#18955293 - 10/09/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Currently in this country cigarettes are about €9.40 for a 20 box. The cigarette company typically charges €2.06 and the remaining €7.34 is tax.
Do you really believe that if cigarettes weren't taxed the cigarette companies would willingly sell them for €2.06 even though they know people are still happy to pay almost 5 times that amount?
If cigarettes are to be sold I would prefer to see as much of the profit as possible going to the state than to a company which profits from millions of drug addicts
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Spiderbaby]
#18955631 - 10/09/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spiderbaby said: Currently in this country cigarettes are about €9.40 for a 20 box. The cigarette company typically charges €2.06 and the remaining €7.34 is tax.
Do you really believe that if cigarettes weren't taxed the cigarette companies would willingly sell them for €2.06 even though they know people are still happy to pay almost 5 times that amount?
If cigarettes are to be sold I would prefer to see as much of the profit as possible going to the state than to a company which profits from millions of drug addicts
Bet you would.
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LobsterSauce


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 19,884
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Repertoire89]
#18957730 - 10/10/13 02:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Most of mainland Europe cigarettes are cheap, unlike Ireland.
3.50/4e box Spain
5e Germany
9.40e Ireland
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Spiderbaby
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Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 1,439
Loc: Ireland
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: LobsterSauce]
#18958848 - 10/10/13 11:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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And people from mainland Europe smoke like chimneys
Spanish price for a box of cigarettes = €3.50/4 Spanish smoking rate for males = 36.4%
German price for a box of cigarettes = €5 German smoking rates for males = 37.4%
Irish price for a box of cigarettes = €9.40 Irish smoking rates for males = 26.5%
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Spiderbaby]
#18959123 - 10/10/13 12:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spiderbaby said: And people from mainland Europe smoke like chimneys
Spanish price for a box of cigarettes = €3.50/4 Spanish smoking rate for males = 36.4%
German price for a box of cigarettes = €5 German smoking rates for males = 37.4%
Irish price for a box of cigarettes = €9.40 Irish smoking rates for males = 26.5%
Since when was it yours or anyone else's business if someone chooses to smoke? I don't like techno or hip-hop so I'm going to tax anyone who listens to that kind of music, also going to tax people who watch TV.
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huffinglue
tryin to stay sober


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 450
Loc: Texas
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Spiderbaby]
#18959133 - 10/10/13 12:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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God damn. I only pay $5 for a pack here in texas. In shreveport there only $3, and I hear there cheep as hell in virginia too.
-------------------- I fucking hate grammer nazis! Yes, I can't spell. Yes, I don't have perfect grammer. I post from my phone and dont give a shit about people whose lifes are so boring they get off on putting people down for not having perfect fucking grammer, even though they know excactly what there saying.. Fuck You. It's just a ride mang...
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Spiderbaby
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Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 1,439
Loc: Ireland
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: 'Tobacco-free' plan for Republic of Ireland [Re: Repertoire89]
#18959244 - 10/10/13 12:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Since when was it yours or anyone else's business if someone chooses to smoke? I don't like techno or hip-hop so I'm going to tax anyone who listens to that kind of music, also going to tax people who watch TV.
Techno and hip-hop don't eventually kill many of their listeners, don't cause a long list of diseases and don't cause massive expenses to the health system. Finally techno and hip-hop aren't highly addictive drugs produced, marketed and sold by large ruthless multinational corporations so I can't really see what comparison you are trying to make here.
Bottom line is tobacco companies make billions from selling a dangerous drug to people, nations can't stop this but they can tax it to offset the cost of the damage the industry causes.
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