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Offlinesweeper54
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Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 6 days, 12 hours
Re: Obamacare [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18936936 - 10/05/13 05:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The problem here is ACA IS THE LAW OF THE LAND and until you become a national party again and not a party of contrived districts of old white guys, you're going to have to live with it.

And because you're not a national party anymore, all you have left is to hold the country hostage. Which isn't helping your imagine any.

Have a nice day:grin:


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InvisibleImperfect Iam
^means imperfect,not I'm perfect
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Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 7,237
Loc: center of the universe Flag
Re: Obamacare [Re: sweeper54]
    #18937529 - 10/05/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Lol all this started with a post to see how many people I could fool and B_boy figured it out right off the bat I figured wow that's the end of that one but when I posted now be nice political discussion almost always turns out to be arguments and can turn friends into enemies turned out to be absolutely correct and just for the record before it's said I don't want to hear I was never your friend! Hahahaha


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All you touch, and all you see, is all your life will ever be- Pink Floyd

Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans- John Lennon


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InvisibleImperfect Iam
^means imperfect,not I'm perfect
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Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 7,237
Loc: center of the universe Flag
Re: Obamacare [Re: Imperfect Iam]
    #18937539 - 10/05/13 07:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

And that's not aimed at you sweeper54 I liked your points of view!:smile:


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All you touch, and all you see, is all your life will ever be- Pink Floyd

Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans- John Lennon


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Offlinesweeper54
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Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
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Re: Obamacare [Re: Imperfect Iam]
    #18937594 - 10/05/13 07:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

cc1 that line only works on the street, not in a Political Discussion Forum.

The average American on the street can barely tell you what day of the week let alone the date. In here, if you can't tell the difference between OC and ACA Zap will eat you alive and you'll be gone in a couple of posts.

ACA law of the land


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InvisibleImperfect Iam
^means imperfect,not I'm perfect
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Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 7,237
Loc: center of the universe Flag
Re: Obamacare [Re: sweeper54]
    #18937721 - 10/05/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah I know he is heavy duty into this shit, fuck I would much rather chat mushrooms but each there own


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All you touch, and all you see, is all your life will ever be- Pink Floyd

Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans- John Lennon


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Obamacare [Re: sweeper54] * 1
    #18937762 - 10/05/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
The problem here is ACA IS THE LAW OF THE LAND and until you become a national party again and not a party of contrived districts of old white guys, you're going to have to live with it.




That's racist.
Quote:




And because you're not a national party anymore, all you have left is to hold the country hostage. Which isn't helping your imagine any.

Have a nice day:grin:




I'm not a party but the Republicans are very much a national party.  You act as if they don't control the House of Representatives and most of the statehouses.  As to the stupid THE LAW OF THE LAND whine, THE LAW OF THE LAND can be changed and even a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT can be repealed.  Further, if it is THE LAW OF THE LAND how come Obama can decide that several parts of it do not have to be enforced?  Congress has the power of the purse, which is also THE LAW OF THE LAND and they can repeal or defund this crap sandwich any time they want to.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Obamacare [Re: Imperfect Iam] * 1
    #18937770 - 10/05/13 08:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cc1 said:
Yeah I know he is heavy duty into this shit, fuck I would much rather chat mushrooms but each there own



There's about 50 different forums here.  I've repeatedly requested that mods move obviously political threads posted in the Pub but for some reason they refuse.  I don't get it.  The Pub is supposed to be laid back.  Politics is never laid back.


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InvisibleImperfect Iam
^means imperfect,not I'm perfect
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Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 7,237
Loc: center of the universe Flag
Re: Obamacare [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #18937835 - 10/05/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with you on this WTF :smile:


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All you touch, and all you see, is all your life will ever be- Pink Floyd

Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans- John Lennon


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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 26 days
Re: Obamacare [Re: sweeper54]
    #18938271 - 10/05/13 10:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
The problem here is ACA IS THE LAW OF THE LAND and until you become a national party again and not a party of contrived districts of old white guys, you're going to have to live with it.

And because you're not a national party anymore, all you have left is to hold the country hostage. Which isn't helping your imagine any.

Have a nice day:grin:





Do you mean when you say, 'holding hostage' that the House of Representatives does NOT have the 'right' to control what is paid for and what is not?  :smirk:


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Offlinesweeper54
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Registered: 11/07/12
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Re: Obamacare [Re: starfire_xes]
    #18938966 - 10/06/13 05:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

They don't if they are unwilling to put that clean CR to a vote.

What is Bonehner afraid of?


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Offlinesweeper54
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Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
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Re: Obamacare [Re: sweeper54]
    #18938983 - 10/06/13 05:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
The problem here is ACA IS THE LAW OF THE LAND and until you become a national party again and not a party of contrived districts of old white guys, you're going to have to live with it.

That's racist.




Correct, it is racist that the pubs have chopped up their states to maximize the disgruntled old white man vote.

Quote:

I'm not a party but the Republicans are very much a national party.  You act as if they don't control the House of Representatives and most of the statehouses.




Correct again, the HOUSE is all you'll ever have a chance of controlling, (see contrived districts above). Statehouses are not national, they are STATES, national affects all.

Quote:

As to the stupid THE LAW OF THE LAND whine, THE LAW OF THE LAND can be changed and even a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT can be repealed.




Correct once again, but when you control only the HOUSE, the Senate and the POTUS can tell you to go fuck yourself.

Quote:

Congress has the power of the purse, which is also THE LAW OF THE LAND and they can repeal or defund this crap sandwich any time they want to.




You are good at most this, correct again, but each house congress  has but 1/3 or as much as 1/2 that power if they are united, which it is not, (See Senate and POTUS above)

What you got wrong is, they DON'T have the right to hold the country hostage. IF you want a law changed it requires a vote and your party does not have the votes.

ACA LAW OF THE LAND.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
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Re: Obamacare [Re: sweeper54] * 1
    #18938991 - 10/06/13 05:57 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
They don't if they are unwilling to put that clean CR to a vote.

What is Bonehner afraid of?





You are wrong.  They absolutely have the right to fund or not fund whatever program they decide to fund.  It's spelled out clearly in the constitution. 

It was done this ways so one group of people or political party couldn't ram their agenda down the throats of the minority.

There is a concept called the Tyranny of the Majority--

"The phrase "tyranny of the majority" (or "tyranny of the masses"), used in discussing systems of democracy and majority rule, envisions a scenario in which decisions made by a majority place its interests so far above those of an individual or minority group as to constitute active oppression, comparable to that of tyrants and despots. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

The US is specifically NOT a democracy for that very reason.  that is why there are separate branches of the government--to give checking power to the minority so an overbearing Federal Government can't ram their fucking bullshit agenda down our throats. 

By the way, when the democrats controlled the house they also used their power to defund programs they didn't like or want.


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Invisibleilus
Bred in Captivity
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Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 3,152
Loc: Around the bend.
Re: Obamacare [Re: reality_check] * 1
    #18939005 - 10/06/13 06:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

reality_check said:
I agree,
Obamacare takes money from the young healthy people by making it mandatory to have insurance at a steep price.
That money is used to fund the dying baby boomer population that they will loose money on in the long run.

It has become a mandatory tax to steal the wealth from the middle class.
All the premiums will go up and if you do not comply the penalties will keep getting worse.
They will ask you on your tax return for proof of insurance and if you don't have it they take the money away on the spot.

There is no checks or balances, they answer to no one.
Its complete bullshit.
just like the two party system.
These fools fight with themselves like children in preschool.

Do you really think they have anyone's best intentions in mind but themselves?





I have to bump this post again because it is the best response ive heard out of anyone ive talked to or any talking head on tv. Spot on.


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Offlinesweeper54
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Registered: 11/07/12
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Re: Obamacare [Re: ilus]
    #18939032 - 10/06/13 06:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

They absolutely have the right to fund or not fund whatever program they decide to fund.  It's spelled out clearly in the constitution. 




But the house has to vote for it, then the Senate has to vote for it and the pres sign it. That's how a law is passed/changed.

The House does not have the Constitutional right to say if you don't change some law we are not going to fund the gov. That is NOT what the forefathers had in mind for 'Checks and Balances'.

And furthermore you don't want the House to take those kind of powers. Look where the NSA wiretaps went.

WHERE is the  "tyranny of the majority"? A law was passed and your conservative  Supreme Court cleared it where's the  "tyranny of the majority" ?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Obamacare [Re: sweeper54] * 1
    #18939095 - 10/06/13 07:10 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
Quote:

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
The problem here is ACA IS THE LAW OF THE LAND and until you become a national party again and not a party of contrived districts of old white guys, you're going to have to live with it.

That's racist.




Correct, it is racist that the pubs have chopped up their states to maximize the disgruntled old white man vote.




How is it that someone who thinks they are as smart as you seem to think you are is unaware that both sides gerrymander and have done so for decades?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Obamacare [Re: sweeper54] * 1
    #18939099 - 10/06/13 07:13 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
Quote:

They absolutely have the right to fund or not fund whatever program they decide to fund.  It's spelled out clearly in the constitution. 




But the house has to vote for it, then the Senate has to vote for it and the pres sign it. That's how a law is passed/changed.

The House does not have the Constitutional right to say if you don't change some law we are not going to fund the gov.




Except they do.

You may wish they didn't, yet they do. The same as when Democrats shut-down the government multiple times.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Obamacare [Re: sweeper54]
    #18939552 - 10/06/13 10:15 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

For what reason should the House be forbidden from amending legislation and the Senate not?  The House passed 3 CRs.  The first one defunded ACA and got sent back with ACA funding back in.  The House accepted that then passed another CR with a delay for the ACA, SOMETHING OBAMA HAS IMPLEMENTED NUMEROUS TIMES HIMSELF IN DEFIANCE OF THE LAW.  That didn't get through the Sewnate either.  Then the House passed a CR saying that if anybody has to abide by the ACA then everybody does.  This is a concept known as "equal protection under the law".  I know this is not palatable to liberal fascists who maintain power by granting favors to select cronies. 

Reality_check is completely right about who gets screwed the most.


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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: Obamacare [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18939832 - 10/06/13 11:33 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't care how many amendments they add they just have to pass the senate and the pres.

Quote:

OBAMA HAS IMPLEMENTED NUMEROUS TIMES HIMSELF IN DEFIANCE OF THE LAW.




Its good to be the King

Be sides what is the role of the POTUS? Implement the laws passed by congress?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Obamacare [Re: sweeper54]
    #18939941 - 10/06/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
I don't care how many amendments they add they just have to pass the senate and the pres.




They also have to pass the House of Representatives.  Or didn't you know that?
Quote:



Quote:

OBAMA HAS IMPLEMENTED NUMEROUS TIMES HIMSELF IN DEFIANCE OF THE LAW.




Its good to be the King




We never had one before
Quote:



Be sides what is the role of the POTUS? Implement the laws passed by congress?




Domestically that is supposed to be it.  He has much more leeway with foreign policy.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Obamacare [Re: sweeper54]
    #18939957 - 10/06/13 12:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
I don't care how many amendments they add they just have to pass the senate and the pres.






That's right.  And any changes the Senate makes have to be reconciled (i.e. 'passed' as you say) by the House.  THEN the President can himself decide whether it becomes law or not.  If he doesn't like it he vetoes it.

Even then, a supermajority can overturn the president's veto.  It takes a 2/3 supermajority of the House and The Senate to overturn the veto. 

You might ask why?  " parliamentary procedure requires that any action that may alter the rights of a minority has a supermajority requirement"  Again, it is this way in order to prevent 'the tyranny of the majority'

This is the fundamental safeguard for our freedom--the ability of each of the houses and the president to prevent each other from dictitorial type law and rule.  And THIS is what it seems like 99% of Americans don't understand about our government.

There is one more check.  A law that is passed--let's use a very clear, unambiguous example--for example, if the congress and the president passed a law that said, say, 'All People Caught With Drugs May Be Jailed and Executed Without Trial'  Then the courts would come back and check the power of the president and congress by voiding the law. 

You see, checks and balances.  Rule of Law.  Rule of Law doesn't mean that the House can't block funding--but it does mean that the President CANNOT unilaterally take a law and implement the parts of it he wants, and set aside the parts he doesn't want. 

Now, if The Left doesn't like the way the constitution works, there is a way they can overrturn it and make new rules, i.e. amend the constitution. 

And that is for either a 2/3 super-majority of state legislatures to propose and amend the constitution or 2/3 of the house and senate propose the ammendment, then have 2/3 of the state legislatures ratify the proposed ammendment so it becomes law. 

So you see, states have significant power to keep the Federal government in check also.

So what is your problem with this system?  You would rather have a dictatorship?


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