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OfflineGratuitous Grace

Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 21
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: My totally square wife dropping hints... [Re: Universe]
    #18935633 - 10/05/13 10:58 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The one rap I HATE from her goes like this - "Stop all this talk about tripping. You're not a teenager anymore. You and your drugs.. give it up. We're old -that's for young people. We have kids and responsibilities, we can't be doing that shit". I wish there was a way to make her change her mind along those lines. I think that tripping adds something to my life that I don't ever want to give up and I hate to see her miss out on it.



I don't know how old you are ... I'm in my very early-40s ... but I remember '91 oh so well.  Bad economy, First Gulf War, massively disillusioned college students ... I think that's when we as 20-somethings (now 40-somethings) knew that we were a generation, very separate and distinct from our parents' generation.  Maybe even united against?  I know, it wasn't the '60s.  There wasn't much love, for starters.  But, we had also gotten good LSD back.  It made the scene again, and I think that that time, that subculture, that generation was really ready and open to it.  We were also pretty open to hearing some fresh ideas about life, how to live it -- genuine alternatives to our parents' trip.  Which I guess worked for them?  I don't know ... the whole thing got me so uptight.  Of course we all said we'd never cross the line for money, and of course I did.  (C'mon ... the economy improved and there were investment banking jobs again ... LOL!)  For me, back and forth over the years, living well and wrong, living poor and right.  I can't seem to get the combination ... LOL!

The point is, it's a Herculean struggle to "make our parents proud" (or however you want to formulate the whole paternalistic trip that Western society in the form of the "totally square wife" enjoys laying on us all) AND at the same time to satisfy the mind, which is so obviously dying to break free of it all, to open up, to stop regretting the past and panicking about the future, to live powerfully in this moment, and to get on with its own evolution.  That's what it was built to do, and that's what it wants to do, and the whole thing just seems totally natural.  Also totally natural and obvious is that psychedelics are potentially an important and valuable tool on that journey.  A tool that's unrivaled in quickly and powerfully showing people like us (Westerners), who weren't fortunate enough to be born into a mental-freedom-loving society, the possibilities.

Sadly, the reality confronting us in this lifetime is that none of this is natural at all.  In fact, it cuts directly across the grain of proper society (to be read as meaning that comprised of the materially wealthy and politically and socially powerful) -- and those who pretend to inhabit proper society.  That part's completely obvious.  What's slightly less obvious (but only slightly) is that we're all in this gigantic (by now) hole and we just can't stop digging.  When things go south, and they always do eventually, we seem compelled to pick up that shovel.  In a way, that's become the only solution we see.  Not getting what you want?  Tighten up and try harder -- really screw yourself into the ground until you're locked down solid.  He got what he wanted?  Damn ... I should have done what he did.

You have jobs and kids and responsibilities?  Beautiful, man.  It seems to me that you're blessed with so many vehicles with which to raise yourself and everyone around you up ... high ... really high!  I don't have kids, but I suspect that, without having had the powerful experiences I've had, I wouldn't know how to teach them that managing directors at Goldman Sachs and reality TV stars and YouTube sensations are not the world's most highly realized beings.  I don't know ... maybe they are?  Nah.  Too many scandals, too many scams, too much dishonesty and getting over.  That's pretty vile stuff ... which of course we're supposed to celebrate.  The money and power and prestige certainly seem to flow to that end of the pool.  I don't know if it's the deep end or the shallow end, but I have my guess.

Whatever ... I'm probably just paddling around in the kiddie pool.  But, my experience tells me that this can be totally sufficient.  Deeply fulfilling.  Not lacking whatsoever.  And then the realization comes that there's nothing to be gained by trying to drown everyone swimming around me ... I can swim, they can swim.  And we can keep swimming because it's all like summer vacation when we were kids, and the summer was *never* going to end because September was just sooo far away, and so there was nothing to do but swim around.  And ride bikes and play tag.  Totally in the moment with no regrets, with no worries, with absolute presence.  And now imagine what an awesomely powerful dad, employee or boss, husband, responsibility-fulfill-er you'd be, I'd be, we'd be if we approached every grown-up situation with that same absolute presence of mind.  Your kids would be wild successes, your customers would keep coming back, your wife would live in a state of total satisfaction and ecstasy, and every little life responsibility would get taken care of.  And you'd hardly even know it.  I bet you wouldn't even know you were working your ass off just taking care of business.  You'd inherently know exactly what to do at every moment ... and you'd just do it.  Effortless.  As effortless as it was to run around outside all day when you were a kid.  Even though you came home exhausted.

The point seems to get completely lost when we start trying to label the experience as being appropriate for kids, for teenagers, for adults, for geriatrics.  Aren't we doing all the same stuff that we used to do???  Sure, it's more serious, it's heavier ... in fact, it's very heavy.  But, it's just going out there and applying energy to situations.  We've forgotten or don't appreciate that it really could be just as light as playing little league -- where we didn't think and analyze and scheme our way through the game from the bleachers.  We just grabbed our bat and glove and showed up and played the game.  And tried to hit a home run, 'cause that was cool.  And if it didn't happen, it didn't happen ... no one got bent about it, or started reminiscing about baseball seasons past, or plotted anyone's downfall.  You just rode your bike home.  Like Hofmann did in 1943.  Easy as that.

So, it doesn't seem to me to be an issue of kids' stuff versus grownup stuff.  Or square wives versus hip wives.  It seems to me to be a problem best formulated by a question -- that being, how to turn on and tune in without dropping out?  That hits on what I think is the unbeatable but also the unbearable thing about psychedelics, right?  Once you get that taste, see that glimpse, experience that possibility ... well ... you can't exactly go back.  Like, back to where?  A cocktail party?  Watching the Giants?  There's intense cognitive dissonance in trying to do it all the old way with a new you.  The new you is a better you -- quite clearly -- so the old way has to go.  But, the old way is the wife's way, right?  And she can't go, and she's not going to let you go (go where ... to live on a mountain in India?) ... so now all we've done is move from intra- to inter-personal disharmony.

The solution has got to be in doing the old thing in a new way.  Richard Alpert suggested that an industrial loan officer at a bank in San Francisco could run such a clean life, such a scrupulously honest life, such an open and giving life that industrial loan officer-ing could become the perfect vehicle for an intensely fulfilling and spiritual life.  A life lived in the moment with evolution occurring without effort.  Behind the scenes.  I don't know if he's right.

And I don't know if your wife or anyone's wife would or could hear something, read something, watch something ... something that registers the thought that it's time to take off the mask and forget the drama and stop playing games.  To call this all kids' stuff or whatever ... when I hear that ... it just strikes of fear, I guess.  Massively defensive.  A manifestation of that very Western and paternalistic ethic that's actually not very ethical at all.  Not understanding, not forgiving, not compassionate.  That same past-regretting, future-panicking mindset that I'm afraid is bound to lead to a very bad end followed almost immediately by a horrible new start.  Psychedelics obviously appeal to teenagers.  Your wife's right about that.  Personally, they appealed to me as a teenager!  But, I wasn't ready for them as a teenager.  It seems to me that they're actually much more appropriate for oldsters like us ... LOL!  Who have a few years under their belts, who have tasted some minor materialistic triumphs and defeats, and who understand that this -- this thing we have now and the way we're doing this thing -- is just not enough.  We're here for what ... an 80-something-year moment if we're lucky?  This is actually a matter of some urgency.  (Not to make anyone overly tight about it.)


Edited by Gratuitous Grace (10/05/13 11:20 AM)


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Offlinesof4r0ckeRs1984
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Registered: 07/30/10
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Re: My totally square wife dropping hints... [Re: Gratuitous Grace]
    #18935853 - 10/05/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I wouldn't go to a forest in the night with a woman in order to trip.


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OfflineLord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms
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Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 3,071
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Re: My totally square wife dropping hints... [Re: sof4r0ckeRs1984]
    #18936044 - 10/05/13 01:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Is it you that wants this or her?


--------------------
Stand up. You're not alone.


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InvisibleLucid Toast
Suggestion expert
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Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 820
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: My totally square wife dropping hints... [Re: dontthinkso]
    #18937092 - 10/05/13 05:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

dontthinkso said:
I'm married, two kids, house in the suburbs, totally square life.

But back in the day, I did a lot of experimenting with psychedelics.  It was an obsession for awhile.  Then I developed some physical problems with it, including very painful stomach cramps, and a series of terrible trips made me hang it up for good a long time ago.

Lately I've been getting an itch to go back again.  I don't really know why, maybe it's your basic midlife crisis of trying to recapture youth.  Cheaper than a sports car I guess!

But here's the thing that's got me thinking.  My wife is totally square about drugs.  She smoked pot once or twice, and hated it.  But she's into the "natural" thing in a huge way.  And recently she dropped hints twice that she would like to try mushrooms.

I am scared that she'll flip out.  She gets stressed out pretty easily.  On the other hand, I feel like a profound trip could be something that could be really good for her to get her to... I don't even know how to describe it.  But I think everyone who has ventured deep into psychedelics knows the basic idea - like we've been out there and lived to tell about it.  Nothing in everyday life that you throw at us is going to phase us.  It's all small beans compared to what we've experienced.  You don't know stress until you've been in the throes of a bad trip.  What people call "work stress"?  Pffft.  Give me a fuckin' break.

I've always felt like my experimentation with psychedelics has given me a perspective on life that works to my advantage.  I want that feeling for her, and think she could benefit from it.

I am thinking about presenting it as a shamanistic ritual for her.  I think she will eat this up, and will be more likely to have a good experience.  I want to take her into the woods for a night and be her sitter, and play up the ritual of it all.

At the same time, I'm scared that she'll freak the fuck out, and hate me "letting" her do it.

Any advice here?  I'm tempted but also somewhat reluctant to go through with this.





I'd give her a 0.2 her first time letting her know its verry little, this will have her Hungary for the real experience I'd suggest just a 1g or maybe 2 g each for a light exp


--------------------
You have to let it go neo, fear, doubt. Disbelief



"The menu is not the meal."
Alan watts

“Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.”
Bill Hicks


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Invisiblebarong
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Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 666 666 Posts!
Re: My totally square wife dropping hints... [Re: Lucid Toast]
    #18937153 - 10/05/13 05:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

i doubt that 0.2g would even register

A 1g dose is an excellent start, put her in the 'high zone' without tripping balls, so she enjoys the experience, A month later, have her try 2 grams, and see how she goes. After that, hit her with a monster dose!

would love to hear how this pans out


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Offlinedontthinkso
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Registered: 07/24/13
Posts: 52
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: My totally square wife dropping hints... [Re: Universe]
    #18937952 - 10/05/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


The one rap I HATE from her goes like this - "Stop all this talk about tripping. You're not a teenager anymore. You and your drugs.. give it up. We're old -that's for young people. We have kids and responsibilities, we can't be doing that shit". I wish there was a way to make her change her mind along those lines. I think that tripping adds something to my life that I don't ever want to give up and I hate to see her miss out on it.




My wife is pretty good about accepting me for who I am.  I have gone through jags of various things that I expected her to give me shit for - poker, for example, but she just took it in stride that it was something I wanted to do, then it was something I wanted to do.

I won't lie - that dialogue that you're hearing from her goes through my head as well, and puts me in a place of doubt.  I might do it once and realize it was a mistake and that I gave it up for good reasons and shouldn't have returned. 

I have a mental image of me with dilated pupils with my tongue hanging out of my mouth, unable to really function, and part of me looks on that from the outside and thinks "pathetic".  The other part of me is still fascinated with the inner journey.  It's weird stuff that can be seen from so many angles, none of them really wrong, none of them really right either.


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Offlinedontthinkso
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Registered: 07/24/13
Posts: 52
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: My totally square wife dropping hints... [Re: Gratuitous Grace]
    #18937985 - 10/05/13 09:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Gratuitous Grace said:
Quote:

The one rap I HATE from her goes like this - "Stop all this talk about tripping. You're not a teenager anymore. You and your drugs.. give it up. We're old -that's for young people. We have kids and responsibilities, we can't be doing that shit". I wish there was a way to make her change her mind along those lines. I think that tripping adds something to my life that I don't ever want to give up and I hate to see her miss out on it.



I don't know how old you are ... I'm in my very early-40s




I just wanted to say that was beautiful writing, and had some definite connections to my headspace as well.  Peace to you and your journey on this little ball in the middle of space.


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Offlinedontthinkso
Stranger
Registered: 07/24/13
Posts: 52
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: My totally square wife dropping hints... [Re: sof4r0ckeRs1984]
    #18937992 - 10/05/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sof4r0ckeRs1984 said:
I wouldn't go to a forest in the night with a woman in order to trip.




You're afraid she'll get scared there?

All of my best experiences are out in nature.  All of my worst experiences are cooped up in a bunch of manmade walls.

YMMV.


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Offlinedontthinkso
Stranger
Registered: 07/24/13
Posts: 52
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: My totally square wife dropping hints... [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #18937996 - 10/05/13 09:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Lord_McLovin said:
Is it you that wants this or her?




All I have from her so far is twice repeated "mushrooms are on my bucket list".  So, is she serious?  I don't know.

Do I want it?  Yes and no.

So... both? Neither?  Unclear as of yet.


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Offlinetarponio
Loves rain
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Registered: 07/28/09
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Re: My totally square wife dropping hints... [Re: dontthinkso]
    #18938099 - 10/05/13 09:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If you are going to do it. Make sure you don't doubt it even 1 percent. GO all in or don't do it all. You dont want the thought in the back of your head. Should we have done this. It will make things uncomfortable. Good luck. I think you should do it at a manageable dose. Maybe try some Bridgesii.


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OfflineSaint Marcus
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Re: My totally square wife dropping hints... [Re: tarponio]
    #18946824 - 10/07/13 08:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I would definitely recommend that you go for it. Show her how amazing these sacraments can be. But... In case anything starts to go sour always bring an abort pill or two. Xanex saves lives. As you know bad trips can be horrifying and soul scarring. Shell be great and I really dig the idea of playing up the ritual. If she is big into the natural and holistic she will b gravy.


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