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Wydue Wanano
MUH SCIENCE


Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 37
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success
#18937174 - 10/05/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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So, I inoculated a number of BRF jars about a month ago. I used dark rye flour instead of BRF because I looked it up and it seemed an acceptable substitute.
They colonized for about two weeks, and then stalled. They have barely budged since, and it's been another two weeks. I've read many reports saying that this is commonly due to insufficient gas exchange, though I have holes punched into the tops of every jar, and am not covering them with the aluminum I sterilized them with.

The two jars to the left (and this is a real knee slapper) are on a cedar wood substrate. I know it's a fungicide, but before I could find vermiculite I had to make do, so I just boiled and drained it several times before coating in dark rye flour, and they are the only ones which have absolutely exploded with mycelium. I tossed out most of the cedar wood jars early on because I figured it was a retarded idea and it wouldn't work. Regrets.
What's going on here? The temperature in my room is usually around a balmy 26'C, so I don't imagine that's the problem.
EDIT: However, I am noticing tiny droplets of water which collect only on areas where there is mycelium, and they look like they're sandwiched between it and the glass. Would too much water cause this kind of stalling?
-------------------- W'sup, I'm a fourth year chem major. Got chemistry questions? Ask me! I know the most about physical and organic chemistry.
Edited by Wydue Wanano (10/05/13 06:00 PM)
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Pestile

Registered: 05/02/13
Posts: 875
Loc: Northern Europe
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Re: Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success [Re: Wydue Wanano]
#18937303 - 10/05/13 06:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't even know where to start, but I guess I'll start with telling you those jars are bunk.
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   The Corbett Report Open Source Intelligence News
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success [Re: Pestile]
#18937729 - 10/05/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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wrong jars, they tend to stall due to gravity compacting them at the bottom and drawing moisture to the bottom as well, it's not the water droplets thats common and no worries
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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vertygo
Stranger



Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 355
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success [Re: cronicr]
#18938222 - 10/05/13 10:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Can someone post a link to the right jars ?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success [Re: Wydue Wanano]
#18938653 - 10/06/13 01:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wydue Wanano said:


Looks nasty
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Wydue Wanano
MUH SCIENCE


Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 37
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success [Re: cronicr]
#18939845 - 10/06/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: wrong jars, they tend to stall due to gravity compacting them at the bottom and drawing moisture to the bottom as well, it's not the water droplets thats common and no worries
Thank you, that's probably it then. Even then, why would it not be colonizing around the top layer of substrate? It wouldn't be compressed or overly wet there. Should I wait and see where these go or should I just ditch these and start again?
Vertygo, I think the right jars would be the short/fat wide mouth half pint jars.
Also pastywhyte, besides the jars filled with cedar (which I'll admit look pretty rank) what exactly looks nasty? As far as my nub brain can tell the mycelium at least looks pretty normal.
-------------------- W'sup, I'm a fourth year chem major. Got chemistry questions? Ask me! I know the most about physical and organic chemistry.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success [Re: Wydue Wanano]
#18939858 - 10/06/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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That creamy looking white shit in there is almost certainly evidence of some nasty bacteria. See the hard leading edge? Bacteria. IMO nothing in those jars in any way resembles healthy mycelium
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Wydue Wanano
MUH SCIENCE


Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 37
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success [Re: Pastywhyte]
#18939962 - 10/06/13 12:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mmmmmyep I can now see that some whitish stuff doesn't look like mycelium. Though it's very little, how did you see that from the picture?
Edit: also the jars don't smell bad. Smells pretty much like rye flour.
-------------------- W'sup, I'm a fourth year chem major. Got chemistry questions? Ask me! I know the most about physical and organic chemistry.
Edited by Wydue Wanano (10/06/13 12:15 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success [Re: Wydue Wanano]
#18939983 - 10/06/13 12:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Once you've done a few hundred quarts or so ya kinda start to get a feel for this But just the way that the edges of the white shit in general are moving and the "melted" look that is going on is the giveaway. The greasy appearance of the sub inside is also a clue. Time to review your sterile tek (really start with a proper tek, don't try to experiment until you know what good results look like) and start over. Do your research, be patient, and the mushies will come 
Also you might not smell anything yet, but give it time. Though I have had bacterial contams that did not smell, even after shaking I would say to keep an eye on your "better looking" jars, they might pull through. But those ones in the middle and on the right are probably fucked.
Edited by Pastywhyte (10/06/13 12:22 PM)
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Wydue Wanano
MUH SCIENCE


Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 37
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success [Re: Pastywhyte]
#18940007 - 10/06/13 12:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Dangit, I could've started over weeks ago if I'd just posted here earlier :P
Thanks for the help everyone. I will probably post results of those cedar jars for anyone's potential curiosity.
Maybe it's just some cruel irony that the jars where I didn't follow any instructions whatsoever are the only ones working as planned.
-------------------- W'sup, I'm a fourth year chem major. Got chemistry questions? Ask me! I know the most about physical and organic chemistry.
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Pestile

Registered: 05/02/13
Posts: 875
Loc: Northern Europe
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Re: Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success [Re: Wydue Wanano]
#18940045 - 10/06/13 12:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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All those jars are toast. You say you've punched holes in the lids. What kind of filters are you using?
Were you trying to make PF cakes? If so you need to follow the tek better. Fill the jars and make sure the top layer is vermiculite, this acts as a filter.
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   The Corbett Report Open Source Intelligence News
Edited by Pestile (10/06/13 12:33 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success [Re: Pestile]
#18940067 - 10/06/13 12:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pestilence said: All those jars are toast.
^^^This is correct. . . I just wanted to let the OP down easy 
Quote:
Wydue Wanano said: Dangit, I could've started over weeks ago if I'd just posted here earlier :P
Just a tip, if you start a new project every week or two you never need to wait and you will learn a lot more a lot faster
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Wydue Wanano
MUH SCIENCE


Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 37
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success [Re: Pestile]
#18940352 - 10/06/13 01:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Are you absolutely sure the two on the left are toast? The mycelium is still spreading steadily, and closing in around the remaining %40.
I don't have any filters over the holes. I read tons of posts while lurking that covering them wasn't necessary. The top layer is dry verm which I read should be enough of a barrier. What kinds of filters should I be using? I think my problem was that I constantly handled the jars because it's my first grow and such. After they stalled I even flipped them upside down for more air as was suggested by some other forumgoers. Probably not the best idea.
Thank you so much for the help guys, really appreciate it.
-------------------- W'sup, I'm a fourth year chem major. Got chemistry questions? Ask me! I know the most about physical and organic chemistry.
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OneiricOutsider
Drucid Leamer


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 136
Loc: In the autumn shade
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Re: Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success [Re: Wydue Wanano]
#18940612 - 10/06/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think it's safe to say you should dump those and start over. They look way too wet, and the jars aren't even filled to the brim like BRF cakes should be. Even if you don't smell it, contamination is likely. Which guide did you follow? I used the PF Tek shown here http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15223324 and didn't experience any problems, give it another shot
Edited by OneiricOutsider (10/06/13 02:38 PM)
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Wydue Wanano
MUH SCIENCE



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 37
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success [Re: OneiricOutsider]
#19018040 - 10/23/13 09:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I read it directly from the PF tek website, I've since gone for RRs Youtube videos. I've got a second batch rolling right now, and despite the spore solution being seemingly piss weak, they are all colonizing and obviously doing much better. One is at about 90% after only 12 days (!!!)
I just found this thread to say: TAKE THIS, NAYSAYERS

I decided to keep the cedar jars just in case, and this lil' mutha showed up this morning. I've refrigerated the jars until I can get a casing together. I've also learned that trying to get cakes out of the tall 1/2 pint jars is just a bad time.
-------------------- W'sup, I'm a fourth year chem major. Got chemistry questions? Ask me! I know the most about physical and organic chemistry.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success [Re: Wydue Wanano]
#19018178 - 10/23/13 09:51 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Are those jars fully colonized? Because invitro pins on a partially colonized sub is almost guaranteed evidence of a contam. At any rate cubes are like weeds and can produce fruit bodies in some pretty atrocious conditions. I saw a post where a guy who tried to flush a sub down his toilet during a moment of paranoia, ended up with some sub stuck in the s bend and ended up producing a few fruits. Don't think he got much weight outta it but does go to show what kind of conditions cubes can fruit in 
Hey if you can get fruits outta that then power to you but, I would keep my expectations low.
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Pestile

Registered: 05/02/13
Posts: 875
Loc: Northern Europe
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Re: Stalled Mycelium, and unexpected substrate success [Re: Wydue Wanano]
#19018714 - 10/23/13 10:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Don't count your chickens before they are hatched.
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   The Corbett Report Open Source Intelligence News
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