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WScott
´ ɑ `▽ ᑲᓇᑕ


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Coffee and Conversation
#18936558 - 10/05/13 03:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Coffee seems to allow for a more dynamic and free flowing conversation from my experience with it the past few months. Before that I almost never had a cup. Coffee seems to go together with bookshops or lounges and of course cafés where it seems fashionable to talk, or at least read. I guess my question is does coffee stimulate literate discourse like alcohol can potentially stimulate belligerence or what? Is it okay to accept that caffeine does something to social aptitude or should one strive to be as conversational without any stimulant?
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HalluciNate
Trippage! / Loving



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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: WScott] 1
#18936567 - 10/05/13 03:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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IMO one should strive to be conversational without any stimulant.
If I were to drink any caffeine right now I'd have one heck of a headache to deal with afterwords.
What happens on the day when the java runs dry?
-------------------- We are here to assist, to teach you to evolve as we go through this process together. We give our own version of things only to bring you to a higher consciousness. No matter what situation you find yourself in, it is the power of your thoughts that got you there. It is also the impeccable belief that thought creates that will transform your experience and the planetary existence.
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WScott
´ ɑ `▽ ᑲᓇᑕ


Registered: 07/31/05
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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: HalluciNate]
#18936588 - 10/05/13 03:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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If I drink 2 or more coffees in a day and don't have any the next, I will get a headache the next day after, like clockwork. Has to do with dilation of blood vessels in the brain and some receptor not turning on or not turning off I don't know. So that aspect deters me.
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: WScott]
#18936635 - 10/05/13 03:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Coffee is absolutely exquisite. I love it with lots of coconut milk.
Since it's a stimulant, using it in moderate dosages is going to amp up your brain & its output. Too much and you'll get like, caffeine anxiety and withdrawal. Caffeine is already a socially acceptable drug. As long as one doesn't use it as a crutch, I don't see why it would be problematic.
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full blown human
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Big_Dave


Registered: 07/07/13
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Ah caffeine, what a great gift to the world. Some say the arrival of tea in europe led to the renaissance. And imo, coffee is lightyears ahead of tea. I like it black and as bold as possible...every morning.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: Big_Dave]
#18937771 - 10/05/13 08:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
I like it black and as bold as possible...every morning
I count in the hundreds the number of people whom I have heard say "I have to have my morning coffee."
For breakfast, I may or may not have orange juice, but it is never 'my' orange juice and I often miss days because it is not a requirement.
That possessive phrasing from coffee drinkers and the never missing of a ritual substance is called A D D I C T I O N.
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WScott
´ ɑ `▽ ᑲᓇᑕ


Registered: 07/31/05
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Before work I would for a number of weeks began by consuming a coffee milk shake with added protein. At the peak of my experiment with caffeine dependance I was also consuming, on average, 2 cups of dark roast coffee throughout the day. While I enjoyed the effect of increase focus towards the tasks of the job, I did not like the feeling of needing to use it to have a good day of work. I substituted apple juice for the morning coffee milk shake and drank mostly water from then on. I experienced long lasting headaches two days after making the change but was fine a day after that. Is there anything wrong with 1-2 coffees a day? If they're prepared black?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: WScott]
#18937844 - 10/05/13 08:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I never used the word wrong. I only addressed need and the pretense of non-addiction.
An ex-ex-gf always needed 'her' post work cocktail (or more). She turned into a raging alcoholic and never saw it. Even after a DUI and worse.
On the other hand, coffee (or caffeine) addicts tend to remain fully functional with minimal health risks, but still in denial.
Me: Just skip one morning out of 10,000.
Coffee drinker: Why should I skip what I like?
Basically, long-term drinkers simply cannot do it.
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Withinity
Untitled


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I agree and it seems like that morning Coffee is Ritualized pretty hard. They never shut up about it until they get 'their' dose.
OP, that's really upto you if you want to be conversational or not and whether drugs help you do it but when you think of it in terms of needing Coffee as a stimulant to converse IMO there are other underlying issues coming into play mainly Anxiety.
Consider this, if you go to a cafe and you just drink the free water eventually you wont be welcome at the cafe, so you gotta remember the key component to coffee is that it is a multi-billion dollar industry, the fact that you start relating it to social aptitude and thinking in some cases it's necessary for conversation, means that Business is a booming. They sucked you in to thinking you need their product to function which means you keep coming back and filling their pockets.
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Edited by Withinity (10/05/13 09:35 PM)
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WScott
´ ɑ `▽ ᑲᓇᑕ


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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: Withinity]
#18938064 - 10/05/13 09:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's more like the difference between driving 50 km/hr and 80 km/hr, imo. Functionality isn't the issue.
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Withinity
Untitled


Registered: 04/11/10
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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: WScott]
#18938158 - 10/05/13 10:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Whatever works for you my friend, i have never felt any stimulating effects from drinking a coffee or a Red-bull so i'm probably a tad bias and could never understand what all the fuss was about.
I still maintain the idea that if your relying on Nitrous Oxide to obtain those extra 30 KM/PH your ignoring the Engine under your own hood which can be tuned to run an extra 30 without having to rely on outside sources. The problem is that your not an automobile and when your off the Coffee your probably gonna be running below 50KM/PH a.k.a 'Im a bit cranky until Ive had my coffee' unlike a car which wont mindfuck itself when withdrawing from a substance.
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Edited by Withinity (10/05/13 10:07 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: Withinity]
#18938422 - 10/05/13 11:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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My car is fussy without jet fuel.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: WScott]
#18939182 - 10/06/13 07:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
WScott said: Before work I would for a number of weeks began by consuming a coffee milk shake with added protein. At the peak of my experiment with caffeine dependance I was also consuming, on average, 2 cups of dark roast coffee throughout the day. While I enjoyed the effect of increase focus towards the tasks of the job, I did not like the feeling of needing to use it to have a good day of work. I substituted apple juice for the morning coffee milk shake and drank mostly water from then on. I experienced long lasting headaches two days after making the change but was fine a day after that. Is there anything wrong with 1-2 coffees a day? If they're prepared black?
Hell there's nothing wrong with addiction if you are willing to accept any possible consequences. I'm speaking as a life long addict and it's gotten me through some really hard times. Right now my habit is Kratom.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Parkseerf


Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 1,611
Loc: Louisiana
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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: Icelander]
#18939510 - 10/06/13 10:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: WScott]
#18939516 - 10/06/13 10:07 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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i drink decaf, no wonder i'm such a poor conversationalist
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: She turned into a raging alcoholic and never saw it.
How do they not see it?
Quote:
Me: Just skip one morning out of 10,000.
Coffee drinker: Why should I skip what I like?
Oh.
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full blown human
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
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Well, caffeine is demonstrably physically addictive. That aside, it's definitely a good drug for conversation. I prefer it in green tea, though.
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Rool Kat
Rutabga


Registered: 05/29/12
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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: Withinity]
#18950468 - 10/08/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Although I'm going to dispute much of what you say, it's not meant as a personal criticism but merely to show that there's another side to the issues that you may not be aware of.
Quote:
Withinity said: I agree and it seems like that morning Coffee is Ritualized pretty hard. They never shut up about it until they get 'their' dose.
OP, that's really upto you if you want to be conversational or not and whether drugs help you do it but when you think of it in terms of needing Coffee as a stimulant to converse IMO there are other underlying issues coming into play mainly Anxiety.
Consider this, if you go to a cafe and you just drink the free water eventually you wont be welcome at the cafe, so you gotta remember the key component to coffee is that it is a multi-billion dollar industry, the fact that you start relating it to social aptitude and thinking in some cases it's necessary for conversation, means that Business is a booming. They sucked you in to thinking you need their product to function which means you keep coming back and filling their pockets.
I quit drinking anything other than coffee or water in restaurants more than a decade ago. I always drink water, and only drink coffee if it's early and I'm meeting some friends at the restaurant and planning on some extended conversation.
OK, I lied there. I sometimes will drink hot chocolate at restaurants in lieu of coffee.
And I've NEVER had anyone at any restaurant complain or react to the fact that I drink water and not a revenue-producing beverage like coffee.
Not everyone gets addicted to everything.
I don't get addicted to anything I've used long term, even though the substances are among those with the highest potential for addiction.
I was a 3-pack a day smoker for several years before quitting, never missed it in any way.
I was a serious abuser of alcohol for even more years, from age 22 until age 39 when I got a wake-up call, courtesy of a DUI.
While my second wife (who was born and raised in East Germany during the cold war) and I were waiting for the US and German governments to pass her security clearance, (so that we could marry) I had to quit both smoking and drinking, but I had to keep booze and cigarettes on hand because I had to be prepared to host a senior officer and his wife who "might" drop in between 7 and 9 pm, known in the old army as "Visiting Hours." It never bothered me to drink water and serve booze to my guests, or to not smoke my own cigarettes. I couldn't do that because I was so broke that I simply could not replace my own consumption.
Several years later, when I got badly shot up in Vietnam and was in constant, unremitting pain/agony; I was given unlimited morphine as I was not expected to live through the event.
Quitting the morphine was a non-event, at least as far as any craving for it; it was a huge event in the pain and agony field though. Even so, there was a desire for the pain to end, but not a desire to have more morphine.
I drink two or three med-large mugs of Coffee daily, but often get engrossed and forget the coffee entirely. I only notice that when I walk past the coffee pot, and notice I forgot to get a cup.
I know, CSBro'...
Edited by Rool Kat (10/08/13 04:57 PM)
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: Rool Kat]
#18953205 - 10/09/13 08:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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And I've NEVER had anyone at any restaurant complain or react to the fact that I drink water and not a revenue-producing beverage like coffee.
Would you not get thrown out if you reserved the best table for 10:00 in the morning and only ordered free tap water, either continuously or once till the cafe or restaurant closed?
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
Edited by liquidlounge (10/09/13 08:26 AM)
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Rool Kat
Rutabga


Registered: 05/29/12
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Quote:
liquidlounge said: And I've NEVER had anyone at any restaurant complain or react to the fact that I drink water and not a revenue-producing beverage like coffee.
Would you not get thrown out if you reserved the best table for 10:00 in the morning and only ordered free tap water, either continuously or once till the cafe or restaurant closed?
No, the real question is would I get thrown out if I decided that I'd be more comfortable naked, and thence immediately proceeded to get that way.
But as fascinating as those absurd flights of fantasy might be for you to conceptualize, neither have any relevance to this thread and so I don't intend to discuss either question.
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: Rool Kat]
#18955105 - 10/09/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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No
So if everyone sat in the same restaurant only ordering free tap water the whole day they would not get thrown out?
But as fascinating as those absurd flights of fantasy might be for you to conceptualize, neither have any relevance to this thread and so I don't intend to discuss either question.
You thought you had a point in your reply to the underlined in Withinity's quote which didn't actually make sense. It was your lack of reading comprehension I am pointing out.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Rool Kat
Rutabga


Registered: 05/29/12
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Assumptions and context.
You make far too many of the former, but your total lack of understanding of the later puts you at a significant disadvantage.
My condolences, sir.
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: Rool Kat]
#18955200 - 10/09/13 04:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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If X writes YYY. Z comprehends this as YYP, Z mess up like most do in this society because they do not pay attention. That is the process of dumbing down ourselves.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Withinity
Untitled


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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: Rool Kat]
#18957333 - 10/09/13 11:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Greetings Mr Roolkat & Liquidlounge.
Quote:
RoolKat said:
Not everyone gets addicted to everything.
I don't get addicted to anything I've used long term, even though the substances are among those with the highest potential for addiction.
I was a 3-pack a day smoker for several years before quitting, never missed it in any way.
I was a serious abuser of alcohol for even more years, from age 22 until age 39 when I got a wake-up call, courtesy of a DUI.
I can kinda related to that after being a chain smoker of 5 years straight, although i don't miss it now it would be Denial to say i was not an addict during those 5 years.
Quote:
RoolKat said: Quitting the morphine was a non-event, at least as far as any craving for it; it was a huge event in the pain and agony field though. Even so, there was a desire for the pain to end, but not a desire to have more morphine.
IMO this is the source of most addiction it always stems from inside the individual the substance just becomes a medium to escape pain, depression, anxiety etc they all root from the same place anyway. I cant relate to being in such physical pain that i would need morphine to cure it though the concept rings the same tone to me as a depressed person using weed or alcohol to numb out and forget would be depression.
I maintain the idea that a well balanced individual both in body and mind would be much less prone to addiction and if they did become addicted to pain relieving substance I would question how balanced they were to begin with. It should be noted i'm talking more within the context of emotional turmoil which seems to be a big part of the human condition , our society turns to drugs for relief on a major scale.
Quote:
RoolKat said: And I've NEVER had anyone at any restaurant complain or react to the fact that I drink water and not a revenue-producing beverage like coffee.
In this case all i can say is Good for you because i have personally been kicked out of a 'Cafe'(no plural)for this reason. Besides that in my experience you get looked at like a weirdo , people even offer to buy you coffee and show some kind of blank/confused look on their face when you explain that you are actually drinking water by choice.
Quote:
Liquidlounge said: So if everyone sat in the same restaurant only ordering free tap water the whole day they would not get thrown out?
Fucking oath they would get thrown out. Though from the business perspective you would never want/allow that to happen , how are you gonna pay the rent with all your customers draining your water bill constantly whilst giving nothing back
Coffee is a Multi-Billion dollar industry but really its just a subsection of Caffeine! So consider how well and how often people keep coming back to other Caffinated products such as Coca Cola and Energy drinks.
I cant help but wondering about the addictive potential of Caffeine when taking all these industries into consideration.
I agree its not so black and white , there is another side to it wherein individuals are able to maintain the use of substances in moderation though for the most part i don't think we do. Don't get me wrong there are always exceptions to every rule but bringing into reference what i said above , we are generally unbalanced for the most part which in turn leads to a 'need' for some kind of consumption. This is where i tie it back to all the Multi-billion dollar industries profiting off that 'need'. Its not so much that substances are addictive rather than we are bunch of addicts and in this society its highly encouraged IMO.
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Edited by Withinity (10/09/13 11:41 PM)
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: WScott]
#18957923 - 10/10/13 04:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'll drink a jar of coffee and still not conversate.
semi-pragmatic drug, don't really become social of it
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Rool Kat
Rutabga


Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 526
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Re: Coffee and Conversation [Re: Withinity]
#18958597 - 10/10/13 10:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Withinity said: Greetings Mr Roolkat & Liquidlounge.
Quote:
RoolKat said:
Not everyone gets addicted to everything.
I don't get addicted to anything I've used long term, even though the substances are among those with the highest potential for addiction.
I was a 3-pack a day smoker for several years before quitting, never missed it in any way.
I was a serious abuser of alcohol for even more years, from age 22 until age 39 when I got a wake-up call, courtesy of a DUI.
I can kinda related to that after being a chain smoker of 5 years straight, although i don't miss it now it would be Denial to say i was not an addict during those 5 years.
Quote:
RoolKat said: Quitting the morphine was a non-event, at least as far as any craving for it; it was a huge event in the pain and agony field though. Even so, there was a desire for the pain to end, but not a desire to have more morphine.
IMO this is the source of most addiction it always stems from inside the individual the substance just becomes a medium to escape pain, depression, anxiety etc they all root from the same place anyway. I cant relate to being in such physical pain that i would need morphine to cure it though the concept rings the same tone to me as a depressed person using weed or alcohol to numb out and forget would be depression.
I maintain the idea that a well balanced individual both in body and mind would be much less prone to addiction and if they did become addicted to pain relieving substance I would question how balanced they were to begin with. It should be noted i'm talking more within the context of emotional turmoil which seems to be a big part of the human condition , our society turns to drugs for relief on a major scale.
Quote:
RoolKat said: And I've NEVER had anyone at any restaurant complain or react to the fact that I drink water and not a revenue-producing beverage like coffee.
In this case all i can say is Good for you because i have personally been kicked out of a 'Cafe'(no plural)for this reason. Besides that in my experience you get looked at like a weirdo , people even offer to buy you coffee and show some kind of blank/confused look on their face when you explain that you are actually drinking water by choice.
Quote:
Liquidlounge said: So if everyone sat in the same restaurant only ordering free tap water the whole day they would not get thrown out?
Fucking oath they would get thrown out. Though from the business perspective you would never want/allow that to happen , how are you gonna pay the rent with all your customers draining your water bill constantly whilst giving nothing back
Coffee is a Multi-Billion dollar industry but really its just a subsection of Caffeine! So consider how well and how often people keep coming back to other Caffinated products such as Coca Cola and Energy drinks.
I cant help but wondering about the addictive potential of Caffeine when taking all these industries into consideration.
I agree its not so black and white , there is another side to it wherein individuals are able to maintain the use of substances in moderation though for the most part i don't think we do. Don't get me wrong there are always exceptions to every rule but bringing into reference what i said above , we are generally unbalanced for the most part which in turn leads to a 'need' for some kind of consumption. This is where i tie it back to all the Multi-billion dollar industries profiting off that 'need'. Its not so much that substances are addictive rather than we are bunch of addicts and in this society its highly encouraged IMO.
And greetings to you, Withiniity, and thanks for a non-confrontational response!
I think the key to addiction is to recognize that addiction is the result of changes in the addicted person's body-chemistry that produce a physical dependence. That dependence results in adverse impacts on the body if the body does not get the substance to which it is addicted. Some persons undergo these changes and some (with me being one of these) do not undergo them.
And I was absolutely not talking about taking substances in moderation in my own case. I would frequently drink to the point that when I woke up the next day, I had utterly no idea where I had been for the last hour of two of the night before, or where I had been.
In Germany where I was stationed at the time ('64) I once lost my car for 6 weeks, Is even reported it as "Stolen," since I had looked for it all that time.
Then, one day as I was riding with a buddy, going out to pick up a blind date, we turned up a side street, and there, buried under 6 weeks of accumulated leaves and bird shit, sat my car, neatly parked and locked, and undisturbed.
I also once broke the stone out of my class-ring. Crawling to my '66 Corvette...
And perhaps I was too brief in my comments about not being asked to leave if I didn't order coffee (or other revenue producing menu item) in lieu of just water. I just reread my original remark and see that I did not specifically mention that I ordered food. In fact, I always order food when I go to a restaurant and my bill is always at least $10, and I never tip less than 20%.
In my old age, unless the service is so BAD that it's either "slap the shit out of the wait-person" to get their attention or leave an insultingly small tip, I tip a min of $2 on a bill less than $10, or 20%. That's because many, if not most restaurants pay waitstaff quite a bit less that minimum wage so tips become part of basic compensation. And that total compensation is so small that many folks make more from unemployment. I think it's unethical, but the bottom line is I use the service, I expect to pay a fair price for it.
So, I get that you are talking about a different situation, and assume that you mean you drink water and do not order any other menu items. I grant you that such behavior is unwelcome anywhere, and your original statement, in the context, is accurate and applies universally. Sorry for the confusion, my bad.
Nice chatting with you,
Bart
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