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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Cyclic [Re: cheeshcat]
    #18924783 - 10/03/13 07:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cheeshcat said:
We are peaceful by nature. the end




Wrong, very wrong. This is obvious to anyone not doing this.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (10/03/13 07:31 AM)


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18925845 - 10/03/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

"Be certain that the nature of the mind is empty and without foundation.

One's own mind is insubstantial, like an empty sky.

Divorced from views which constructedly determine [the nature of] emptiness,

Be certain that pristine cognition, naturally originating, is primordially radiant-
Just like the nucleus of the sun, which is itself naturally originating.

Be certain that this awareness, which is pristine cognition is uninterrupted,
Like the coursing central torrent of a river which flows unceasingly.

Be certain that conceptual thoughts and fleeting memories are not strictly identifiable,
But insubstantial in their motion, like the breezes of the atmosphere.

Be certain that all that appears is naturally manifest [in the mind],
Like images in a mirror which [also] appear naturally.

Be certain that all characteristics are liberated right where they are,
Like the clouds of the atmosphere, naturally originating and naturally dissolving.

There are no phenomena extraneous to those that originate from the mind.
[So], how could there be anything on which to meditate apart from the mind?

There are no phenomena extraneous to those that originate from the mind.
[So], there are no modes of conduct to be undertaken extraneous [to those that originate from the mind].

There are no phenomena extraneous to those that originate from the mind.
[So], there are no commitments to be kept extraneous [to those that originate from the mind.]

There are no phenomena extraneous to those that originate from the mind.
[So], there are no results to be attained extraneous [to those that originate from the mind.]

There are no phenomena extraneous to those that originate from the mind.
[So], one should observe one's own mind, looking into its nature again and again.

If, upon looking outwards towards the external expanse of the sky,
There are no projections emanated by the mind,
And if, on looking inwards at one's own mind,
There is no projectionist who projects[thoughts] by thinking them,
Then, one's own mind, completely free from conceptual projections, will become
luminously clear.

[This] intrinsic awareness, [union of] inner radiance and emptiness, is the Buddha-body of Reality,
[Appearing] like [the illumining effect of] a sunrise on a clear cloudless sky,
It is clearly knowable, despite its lack of specific shape or form.

This naturally originating inner radiance, uncreated from the very beginning,
Is the parentless child of awareness

It is the naturally originating pristine cognition, uncreated by anyone

[This radiant awareness] has never been born and will never die

Though manifestly radiant, it lacks an [extraneous] perceiver

Though it has roamed through cyclic existence, it does not degenerate

Though it has seen Buddhahood itself, it does not improve

Though it is present in everyone, it remains unrecognized

Still, one hopes for some attainment other than this

Though it is present within oneself, one continues to seek it elsewhere"

The Tibetan Book of the Dead



"life is what you make it, don't ever fake it":tongue:


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Cyclic [Re: Icelander]
    #18929444 - 10/04/13 02:43 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

cheeshcat said:
We are peaceful by nature. the end




Wrong, very wrong. This is obvious to anyone not doing this.



We have both sides naturally in us. For caring for our offspring or pack we are loving and peaceful towards them naturally, too.


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Offlinecheeshcat
Stranger


Registered: 06/23/13
Posts: 129
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Cyclic [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18929883 - 10/04/13 06:34 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

How is it a necessity? No I would absolutely not say it's a necessity for an 'organism' to cause ruin, injury and or pain to survive. That is sadism, because an individual does not inflict pain unless an individual wants or chooses to inflict pain and that is governed by the individuals free will. According to your dictionary I'm evil, inferring that I cause ruin, injury and pain but according to my reality I am not. :rolleyes:


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OfflineMuffinShroomMan
Stranger


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 1,079
Last seen: 1 year, 6 days
Re: Cyclic [Re: cheeshcat]
    #18930771 - 10/04/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

A specific exception does not break the rule.... and I think under the right circumstances... you and anyone else can cause ruin injury and pain... or be evil.

The fact that you don't cause pain would be a product of you're upbringing. And can you really say you don't cause pain? On a physical or an emotional level? To anyone ... ever in your life?

It feels good doing it. It just does.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Cyclic [Re: cheeshcat]
    #18930844 - 10/04/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

How is it a necessity? No I would absolutely not say it's a necessity for an 'organism' to cause ruin, injury and or pain to survive. That is sadism, because an individual does not inflict pain unless an individual wants or chooses to inflict pain and that is governed by the individuals free will. According to your dictionary I'm evil, inferring that I cause ruin, injury and pain but according to my reality I am not. :rolleyes:

What would you feed your stomach with? And the organisms you ruin and injure when breathing air and drinking water or the particles you destroy when moving?

That is sadism, because an individual does not inflict pain unless an individual wants or chooses to inflict pain and that is governed by the individuals free will. According to your dictionary I'm evil, inferring that I cause ruin, injury and pain but according to my reality I am not. :rolleyes:

My dictionary? It's a legal dictionary, pick any other major dictionary and it will define evil as the same. If you don't want to debate using dictionaries to get to conclusions I suggest you stop communicating in English.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


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OfflineMuffinShroomMan
Stranger


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 1,079
Last seen: 1 year, 6 days
Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18930866 - 10/04/13 11:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I didn't even think about going down to the particle level with it... proves the point even better!

And our choice to keep us alive allow us to eat and destroy the world we live on.. everything counters the argument.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3


Edited by MuffinShroomMan (10/04/13 11:51 AM)


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OfflineMuffinShroomMan
Stranger


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 1,079
Last seen: 1 year, 6 days
Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18930904 - 10/04/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think though that any effort to thwart our evil is valiant... but seems to always be in vain. Maybe its just delaying the inevitable? I mean... it obviously is... inevitably we will all be extinct... maybe we are delaying our self-extinction? Long enough to terraform? And then what? Maybe just delaying for more information to disprove that our end will be our own? Searching for a fight maybe? Something else to conquer? Is that our end? And what then? When we have complete control over everything in existence? What will our race do? Become bloated and fight amongst ourselves? Its just an endless cycle... no point in human history will be worth living... its just a question of how enjoyable of a time you can have I suppose... and I think we could have a lot more fun in space ships than mustangs.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,761
Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18933352 - 10/04/13 09:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

A blind homeostasis or dynamic flux looks cyclic especially in context of peace and violence.

In peace we grow lax and chaos emerges then a reversal of order and disorder wakes us up and we reestablish some harmony.  It is constant and even rhythmic. Not one cycle but many organic systems that rise into the stream and settle into the waking dream


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineMuffinShroomMan
Stranger


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 1,079
Last seen: 1 year, 6 days
Re: Cyclic [Re: redgreenvines]
    #18933682 - 10/04/13 10:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What is a dynamic flux?

And a blind homeostasis.... we have the ability to change ourselves... but lack the knowledge or power to choose the best self?


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,761
Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18935008 - 10/05/13 07:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

try dictionaries for the vocabulary, I thought you were smarter than 90% of your local area tribesmen...
anyway, I agree that you may feel lost in the face of what might be the best attitude at any particular moment,
but your choice of who to be at any moment is complicated by your habits which hold more sway than your preferences.

part of waking up to the human condition is understanding that habit is stronger than preference, but you can plan and implement routines that build a  select few new habits. although many people just give up and go to sleep.

like choosing your battles


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineMuffinShroomMan
Stranger


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 1,079
Last seen: 1 year, 6 days
Re: Cyclic [Re: redgreenvines]
    #18936148 - 10/05/13 01:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
try dictionaries for the vocabulary, I thought you were smarter than 90% of your local area tribesmen...
anyway, I agree that you may feel lost in the face of what might be the best attitude at any particular moment,
but your choice of who to be at any moment is complicated by your habits which hold more sway than your preferences.

part of waking up to the human condition is understanding that habit is stronger than preference, but you can plan and implement routines that build a  select few new habits. although many people just give up and go to sleep.

like choosing your battles





Sorry but you lost me right there. I ask questions. Take it or leave it. I answer them too when I can.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,761
Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18936382 - 10/05/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I make it up as seems suitable.
Nothing cryptic about habits (operating on automatic) and finding opportunity to act differently than comme d'habitude.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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