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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18934503 - 10/05/13 02:43 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

And some are able to make fart noises when putting their hand under the armpit.


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Invisibleteknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18934505 - 10/05/13 02:44 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If James Randi was legit, he should have payed Wim Hof by now, imo.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18934509 - 10/05/13 02:47 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I mean he should pay or recant chi as being anything mystical or supernatural.

It's not really a false dichotomy imo, because I think those are the only two options he has.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18934513 - 10/05/13 02:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)



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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18934533 - 10/05/13 02:53 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Hahaha, so funny.

What is the definition of supernatural, and was UV light at one time supernatural?

So I think the word supernatural is inherently meaningless and doesn't pertain to science at all.


Edited by teknix (10/05/13 03:13 AM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18934562 - 10/05/13 03:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Get this.

If the phenomena is due to quantum entanglement then there wouldn't be any evidence of transference of data, because it would be instantaneous and like in non-locality, the only evidence would be the action of the atoms and the way they act.

The same way that quantum communication would take place, how could you measure it if there is nothing traveling between the points in this dimension?

Which was my argument to as why Seti fails and is barking up the wrong tree by trying to get signals which are limited to the speed of light and would be an extremely inefficient means of communication if you wanted to relay messages light years away.

Chew on that.

:cool:


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18934573 - 10/05/13 03:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

IE; the only way you could know is if you had both objects (The transmitter and receiver) in the same place to observe them at the same time.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix] * 1
    #18934574 - 10/05/13 03:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What is the definition of supernatural, and was UV light at one time supernatural?

Supernatural, legal dictionary:

1. Of or relating to existence outside the natural world.
2. Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces.
3. Of or relating to a deity.
4. Of or relating to the immediate exercise of divine power; miraculous.
5. Of or relating to the miraculous.

Could supernatural mean that we just don't have a way to measure it?

There's no way to measure what goes beyond nature, hence Randi is able to debunk faux like you and the rest.


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Invisibleteknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18934581 - 10/05/13 03:09 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

No shit, all you're saying is that we don't have a way to measure it, how is that profound? Especially when there is evidence of it, that is visible to your naked eye, yet you can't measure it. How do you like those apples?

So U.V. light was once considered or should have been considered supernatural and non-existent?

Yeah, that makes a ton of sense bro.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18934585 - 10/05/13 03:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

How long was the Higgs Boson supernatural and non-existent . . .

:lol:

So I think the word supernatural is inherently meaningless and doesn't pertain to science at all. It actually would be a hindrance to discovery if you think something doesn't exist just because you can't currently measure it with the given technology that we have.


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OfflineHeffy
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Registered: 08/30/04
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: DustJuice]
    #18934588 - 10/05/13 03:13 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DustJuice said:
I guess so much of this stuff is so elusive and hard to prove because the serious practitioners guard their techniques and abilities. This in itself opens the door for skeptics. But imagine if they did lay it all out on the table and it was proven, surely some big greedy corporation would find a way to patent it, sell it and/or misuse it. So I understand the secrecy.



More likely this stuff is so elusive and hard to prove because the serious practitioners are all frauds.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18934594 - 10/05/13 03:15 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

So U.V. light was once considered or should have been considered supernatural and non-existent?

U.V light was measurable the whole time.

I am still talking about what you can't measure because it goes beyond science.

Try to understand.


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18934596 - 10/05/13 03:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
He will make some excuse and say it is biological rather than supernatural, which chi is biological. I think all of our cells are connected through the blastula on the quantum level. I mean all of our cells come from the same meristematic cells that form the blastula, before the differentiate. (Like in binary fission.)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goose_bumps
Quote:

The sympathetic nervous system also causes a reflex called piloerection, which makes the muscles attached to the base of each hair follicle contract and force the hair up. Goose bumps cause the hairs to stand up, just as porcupines raise their quills when threatened.




What evidence do you have that the hairs on your arm are moving due to the manipulations of chi rather than the effects of plioerection?


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I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: Heffy]
    #18934605 - 10/05/13 03:23 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Nothing really, other than piloerection is cause by the autonomous system and not "controlled", afaik.

I've been able to do this for years, here is an example from about 3 years ago :

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13469771#13469771

Even if it is caused by piloerection, then how am I controlling the sympathetic nervous system, which would be testament to the fruits of the practice?

Which yes, I am controlling it, and that is what chi is about. (imo)

I don't think it is supernatural at all. I think it is something we can all do with proper practice.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18934609 - 10/05/13 03:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

That's why I took biology, to attempt to bring the phenomena into the objective world.

But yeah, a lot of the guys who claim it is supernatural and give you tons of beliefs to follow are hoaxsters. I consider John Chang a hoaxster. Just because I'm a skeptical person and prefer truth over belief. But not that belief can't be of benefit to some, but it is generally a hindrance (imo).

IE; we learn to control the autonomous system, not cast magical spells.

I'm sure you have all felt in passing what I can feel on command at some point in your life.

If feels a lot like electricity, if you have ever been zapped, yet it hasn't ever been measured in the same manner, so what is it then? Something is traveling through my body that feels similar to electricity, yet much more pleasant.


Edited by teknix (10/05/13 03:47 AM)


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18934652 - 10/05/13 03:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Even if it is caused by piloerection, then how am I controlling the sympathetic nervous system, which would be testament to the fruits of the practice?

Which yes, I am controlling it, and that is what chi is about. (imo)





So the value of chi practice is that you can get your hair to stand on end by altering your emotional state in a way which activates your symphatic nerve system?

No offense......but that sounds like the most useless skill ever. Care to try and sell me on the benefits?


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: Heffy]
    #18934657 - 10/05/13 03:55 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You must have missed the other things I wrote, plus there is a lot more, but I think that doing it for the sake of gaining powers would be worthless anyway.

It's bliss flowing through your body, the hairs or goose bumps are just a side-effect. You could practice reading better.

Do you know what the CNS and PSNS is and what benefits you could gain by actually controlling it?

You missed the ramifications or what it entails with shallow thinking and cynicism.


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: Heffy]
    #18934662 - 10/05/13 04:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I think that doing it for the sake of gaining powers would be worthless anyway.



What is the purpose of the practice then?
Why do most of the established chi masters make a point of demonstrating their "powers"?
Why are you making videos in an attempt to demonstrate your "powers"?


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Registered: 04/05/00
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: teknix]
    #18934667 - 10/05/13 04:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

cirque du soleil inspired me more :shrug:


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: The Best Objective Evidence of Chi. [Re: Heffy]
    #18934673 - 10/05/13 04:04 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Do you know what the CNS and PSNS is and what benefits you could gain by actually controlling it?



Of course I do. What evidence do you have that there is an invisible energy force that allows people to control them?

Quote:

You missed the ramifications or what it entails with shallow thinking and cynicism.



No I didn't. Obviously there are benefits developing the skill to control your mind and body. That is a different argument than the one you made in the OP.


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