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DpRwav
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Darwinism
#18931979 - 10/04/13 04:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Its occurred to me that every example i see about survival of the fittest is always an interspecies battle. its always a lion killing an antelope etc.
I forget which documentary i was watching but these deer would spend their day deciding which water hole to go to. The study was trying to suggest that the observed "alpha males" of the group would basically decide for the whole herd.
this was found to not be the case. other deer would point their heads in the direction of the water hole and basically once the majority pointed toward the water hole thats when the whole herd would go. It was not the alpha males decision.
So, as humans we have leaders and a system of hierarchy, presidents, kings, priests and what not. I think the theory of darwinism has been twisted. Basically my point is, is that darwinism has been misunderstood? We are supposed to be the smartest organisms on the earth yet we fight and kill and suppress each other all the time(because of our macho man randy savage lifestyles and perceptions) when we should work together as a whole human race to better each and every person living. Isnt that the definition of survival of the fittest? We are the fittest of them all to survive on this earth. Are we not? Too many underlying poisons. Are we all equal? If not, why shouldnt we be?
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Me_Roy
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Re: Darwinism [Re: DpRwav] 1
#18932008 - 10/04/13 04:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Most of The Origin of Species consider natural selection in terms of competition within one species for scarce resources.
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DpRwav
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Re: Darwinism [Re: Me_Roy]
#18932029 - 10/04/13 04:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It doesnt make any sense why it would be that way with us when we are as intelligent as we think we are..
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Icelander
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Re: Darwinism [Re: DpRwav] 1
#18932047 - 10/04/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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cause our emotions override our intelligence.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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DpRwav
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assedbackwards
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Kickle
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Re: Darwinism [Re: DpRwav] 1
#18932091 - 10/04/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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survival of the fittest is almost always misunderstood. it's not about strength or intelligence or fighting. it's not about any particular trait or survival skill.
when I was going through an evolutionary psych course it was explained this way: fitness is determined by: 1) the ability to survive and 2) the ability to reproduce
Genetic variances happen from one animal to the next. And if the genetic material which emerges does not allow first survival, and secondly reproduction, it has no fitness. therefore, only those animals that have genetics which enable them to both survive and reproduce have fitness. And of course due to them reproducing these are the genetics which will be passed on. whereas those who cannot survive and/or reproduce will die out. only the fit survive and the fittest in bulk.
the only reason that other species are brought in, is to demonstrate the flexibility of this in action. for instance, a common example is the peppered moth. This moth was very light with black spots peppering its wings and body. But when the industrial revolution occurred in England, soot began to cover the trees they lived on. And suddenly those species which ate these moths could easily see them. Light colored bodies on soot covered trees? Yeah, that's an easy meal. Suddenly the fitness of that genetic material went to shit. And in it's place, a variation of the moth became the fit one. A dark bodied moth. It blended into the soot covered trees and was not the easy meal it's light colored friend was. And so what was once a fit species was no more. And what was previously an unfit species became the gold standard. And this was due to changes in the environment and predation. If any species existed in a bubble, whatever was fit would be fit forever. But it isn't that way. The environment changes. The predators change. The world changes. And only those with fitness at any given point survive. Keeping in mind that fit here means possessing the ability to survive and reproduce.
The fittest humans survived and the traits you see are the ones which have worked for survival and reproduction
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DpRwav
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Re: Darwinism [Re: Kickle]
#18932154 - 10/04/13 05:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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So basically evolution has fucked us all mentally and until the majority of us have a psychological breakdown we are just gonna keep murdering people for no reason?
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Kickle
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Re: Darwinism [Re: DpRwav] 1
#18932183 - 10/04/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Until a genetic shift is forced by the world at large, this is it. Sometimes those shifts take a million years. Sometimes they take a matter of years. In our case we've been through a lot of environmental changes with seemingly little impact. I wouldn't hold your breath for anything coming soon.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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DpRwav
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Re: Darwinism [Re: Kickle]
#18932213 - 10/04/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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True
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Kickle
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Re: Darwinism [Re: DpRwav]
#18932261 - 10/04/13 05:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Might be the price of being at the top of the food chain. Like the alligator with no real predators which has stayed the same for-freakin'-ever. We have little threat to our ability to survive and reproduce beyond ourselves.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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hTx
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Re: Darwinism [Re: Kickle]
#18935996 - 10/05/13 12:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wrong and wronger.
We are not like the alligator in any way shape or form, and our evolution is of a different nature than physical attributes. They are stable, requiring little to no mutations in order to survive accordingly.
Humans have evolved with the mind, with culture, and with technology, to deny this is well, to be in denial..as its the plain and self-evident truth.
To say we have seen little changes to the way humanity operates itself since our inception leaves me scratching my head thinking "wow whoever said that must really be blind." You are separating mind-body and thinking only in terms of physical evolution it seems, ignoring the truth of consciousness evolution..and how it accelerates itself, something no other animal in the world can do until they develop the brains to do so. Just the simple fact that we have discovered DNA and how it operates puts us on a different level in regards to evolution as now we can do something called "genetic engineering".
Survival of the fittest applies to a certain stage of evolution, before evolution becomes conscious of itself.
We will continue to evolve towards the stars, because that is the final frontier.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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Me_Roy
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Re: Darwinism [Re: hTx]
#18944521 - 10/07/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hTx said: Wrong and wronger.
We are not like the alligator in any way shape or form, and our evolution is of a different nature than physical attributes. They are stable, requiring little to no mutations in order to survive accordingly.
Humans have evolved with the mind, with culture, and with technology, to deny this is well, to be in denial..as its the plain and self-evident truth.
To say we have seen little changes to the way humanity operates itself since our inception leaves me scratching my head thinking "wow whoever said that must really be blind." You are separating mind-body and thinking only in terms of physical evolution it seems, ignoring the truth of consciousness evolution..and how it accelerates itself, something no other animal in the world can do until they develop the brains to do so. Just the simple fact that we have discovered DNA and how it operates puts us on a different level in regards to evolution as now we can do something called "genetic engineering".
Survival of the fittest applies to a certain stage of evolution, before evolution becomes conscious of itself.
We will continue to evolve towards the stars, because that is the final frontier.
What you describe doesn't sound like "natural selection." It sounds like you're talking about cultural development.
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DpRwav
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Re: Darwinism [Re: Me_Roy]
#18944881 - 10/07/13 01:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Like i said in the op
Too many underlying poisons
Whatever these "poisons" may be..
There are too many
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Tripsurfer
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Re: Darwinism [Re: DpRwav] 1
#18944964 - 10/07/13 01:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think you misinterpret the point Darwin tries to make.
The original title read:
"On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life"
The whole book goes against the idea that species are created by God and therefore fixed in their current state of being. And that he human being is not the crown on top His creation.
We are not masters but slaves to the real replicant that underlies all life. This is the genome. It is not species against one another but the genome that through the process called 'natural selection' tries different ways to replicate itself successfully. It does not care about the particulars. It is in no hurry. It does not care if humanity is wiped out. Eventually it will find another way of getting of this planet.
-------------------- Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros... A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.

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DpRwav
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Maybe so.
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Repertoire89
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Quote:
Tripsurfer said:
We are not masters but slaves to the real replicant that underlies all life. This is the genome. It is not species against one another but the genome that through the process called 'natural selection' tries different ways to replicate itself successfully. It does not care about the particulars. It is in no hurry. It does not care if humanity is wiped out. Eventually it will find another way of getting of this planet.
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DpRwav
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
Tripsurfer said:
We are not masters but slaves to the real replicant that underlies all life. This is the genome. It is not species against one another but the genome that through the process called 'natural selection' tries different ways to replicate itself successfully. It does not care about the particulars. It is in no hurry. It does not care if humanity is wiped out. Eventually it will find another way of getting of this planet.

To me it seems as if there is no credit given to the awesomely powerful ability of the human race to think.
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Repertoire89
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Re: Darwinism [Re: DpRwav]
#18945091 - 10/07/13 02:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ac1dHeaD said:
To me it seems as if there is no credit given to the awesomely powerful ability of the human race to think.
In my opinion there is far too much credit given to that supposedly proprietary ability.
Taken as a collective people one is only looking at the great people of our species and their work, the one in 10 million. The everyday reality of our species is a story of mundane inadequacy.
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Me_Roy
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Quote:
Tripsurfer said: We are not masters but slaves to the real replicant that underlies all life. This is the genome. It is not species against one another but the genome that through the process called 'natural selection' tries different ways to replicate itself successfully. It does not care about the particulars. It is in no hurry. It does not care if humanity is wiped out. Eventually it will find another way of getting of this planet.
That's Dawkins' "selfish gene" theory, no?
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Spacerific
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Re: Darwinism [Re: Me_Roy]
#18945381 - 10/07/13 03:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well let's not forget we're primates, and as such we have all sorts of drives regarding territoriality, alpha male behavior and who's at the top of the local hierarchy of power. Who has the biggest swinging dick, club and so on. Just because you put some clothes on primates doesn't mean you've changed their deep core and how they operate.
This whole business with the chosen leaders is a complete fabrication. It's wrestling, displayed before your eyes to make you believe it's real. Propaganda. It is, always has been and probably always will be, anarchy. Throughout the planet. The gun and the appearance of strength rule the day. He who mindfucks the rest gets the respect, obedience and resources. There is of course the illusion of order, of this or that institution running the show, but in reality it's a more straightforward game of camouflage versus ability to see through the bullshit. Back in the day certain people claimed they had different blood, or connection to this or that god, giving them the right to rule over others. Standing armies accepted to enforce that illusion and so it stood for centuries, although there is no actual blue blood to speak of. The sheep below them bought that world view hook, line and sinker, and as it is in nature, when someone else bullshits you successfully, you pay the price.
Now they do the same thing with all manner of papers, imaginary borders, symbols of power and some better technology to woo you with. Constitution, founding fathers, White House, pledge of allegiance, one nation under god. It's all the same show, primates trying to one-up each other for being the top dog in a local hierarchy, and keeping you firmly in place, like a cog in their machine.
If ever we learn to change that with mass use of psychedelics, human-machine interface or something completely new, to be invented in the future, maybe this state of events will change. Until then it's here to stay, learn to navigate it and see through the bullshit.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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