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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: Deviate]
    #18930103 - 10/04/13 08:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

But no one has found him right?  Is the devil(s) only part of the christian mythology?  I'm not so sure.



--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (10/04/13 08:30 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: Deviate]
    #18930113 - 10/04/13 08:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

And yes I agree that his thread does not really belong in this forum. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: Icelander]
    #18930128 - 10/04/13 08:33 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I usually dislike the troll op but he's been cracking me up on this forum :curbyourenthusiasm:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: Deviate]
    #18930133 - 10/04/13 08:34 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yes everyone expresses spirituality according to their nature, but putting one's faith in logic and reasoning is not spirituality, it is logic and reason.

Well there are plenty of humans who excessively claim to use logic and reason for living out this life.  That then would have to be their form of spirituality. :shrug:  Other wise they would have none to express according to their nature.  Personally I think logic and spirituality are intertwined.  The way you use them is personal.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: Icelander]
    #18930171 - 10/04/13 08:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I feel the fact still stands that nothing divine or demonic has not, and never has been proven.
What we have are words of men, books written of men, and men lie. :tongue2:

I neither believe or deny god, but I believe religion is the wrong way to be closer to him/her/it.
Dogma, doctrine-- dumbassery.

Personal thought is all you need, you need not believe anything from the past or that has been written in the past, these are simply personal beliefs of those writing them(or the collective ideas of that era)
Nothing has ever been written in the bible, or any religious book, which is confirmed fact. Its just words of men.

(I haven't been keeping up with the arguments, excuse that)


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Edited by Tmethyl (10/04/13 08:50 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: Tmethyl]
    #18930235 - 10/04/13 09:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well we all base our thoughts on the culture that created us so to speak so no one really comes up with anything out of whole cloth but that doesn't mean I disagree with your main idea here.

I think disengaging from religions is usually a good thing and a positive step in many peoples spiritual growth.  The problems with most religions is that you are expected to take all of it rather than cherry picking the parts that really resonate with you.  And lets be honest and admit that there is a lot of nastiness associated with many religions and I for one don't want to be associated with any of that ugliness.  It's the antithesis of my spirituality.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLysergicX7
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: Icelander]
    #18930314 - 10/04/13 09:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Faith implies hope
Hope implies doubt. :shrug:


--------------------
“Everybody is fundamentally, the ultimate reality. Not god in the political kingly sense, but god in the sense of being the self – the deep down basic whatever there is. And you’re all that… only you’re pretending you’re not.” -Alan Watts

I think that in human evolution it has never been as necessary to have this substance LSD. It is just a tool to turn us into what we are supposed to be.”
― Albert Hofmann


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: LysergicX7]
    #18930324 - 10/04/13 09:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:psychsplit:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: Icelander]
    #18930552 - 10/04/13 10:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

One thing I struggled with when I tried to follow Christianity was that "god created you"
And some choose not to believe in god due to the lack of reasoning and evidence.
If god made them, and gave them a reasoning mind, why would believing in something unseen be considered bad? That's what reasoning is.
That is like me making a robot them sending him to hell because he followed the code that I programmed/input into him.
And if god created broken people, than he makes mistakes and is not omnipotent.
So many logical contradictions. Like God created the universe but he couldn't write his own book(bible) he "spoke through men" lol.

So I just live, there is no wrong or right, just be you, that's it.
Follow your desires. Harm none, do what ye will. You know what's good and bad, nobody needs to tell you.


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Edited by Tmethyl (10/04/13 10:27 AM)


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Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: Icelander]
    #18930595 - 10/04/13 10:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I've never ever seen a shred of real evidence of a Satan.  And I don't see how it follows that if there were one there would have to be a god.

And posting a two hour video as evidence is over the top imo.  Can you link to specific places/times in the video where it addresses this issue?





OMG!!! No SATAN!!! OMG!!!

I was huffing liquid paper thinner in a plastic bag when I was a kid and all of a sudden the wall went roooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr  and two hairy demons from a different world jumped through  and I screamed and screamed. 

My mom and friend ran up the stairs and said I was possessed.....
yeah....


--------------------
...or something







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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: eve69]
    #18931435 - 10/04/13 02:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

So once upon a time there was a talking snake and some magic fruit and a chick got turned into a baby killer for riding cowgirl because it pissed off the fairy that made the universe in 6 days

"But he loves you" Carlin


Edited by Yogi1 (10/04/13 02:25 PM)


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18932236 - 10/04/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Believing in things for which there is no evidence is NOT commendable. It is ignorant and retarded.





That's blind faith.  I have faith in my wife. She's faithful. So am I.  It's a good thing -- a building block of the monogamo


--------------------
...or something







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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: Icelander]
    #18932534 - 10/04/13 06:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Yes everyone expresses spirituality according to their nature, but putting one's faith in logic and reasoning is not spirituality, it is logic and reason.

Well there are plenty of humans who excessively claim to use logic and reason for living out this life.  That then would have to be their form of spirituality. :shrug:  Other wise they would have none to express according to their nature.  Personally I think logic and spirituality are intertwined.  The way you use them is personal.




If you define spirituality as one's approach to life, but traditionally spiritually has been understood to mean one's approach to the divine. Those who deny the existence of the divine are not consciously spiritual. Of course, us being spiritual beings, they are still spiritual whether they realize it or not. For example, my father who is an atheist has told me that he gets "spiritual" feelings when he looks out over the ocean. That is his spirituality, but that is something different from the logical, ordered approach he takes in other areas of his life. And I am not saying spirituality must be illogical, only that it is something different from a conclusion based on logic. When my father gets a spiritual feeling from the ocean, I am pretty sure it is not resulting from the intellect, but coming from the heart. Perhaps that clarifies the difference. Spiritual matters are matters of the heart. Doesn't mean we can't analyze the heart using logic, but the heart is not something which is arrived at through logic. It's something we have in addition to our logical intellect.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: Icelander]
    #18932541 - 10/04/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
But no one has found him right?  Is the devil(s) only part of the christian mythology?  I'm not so sure.






Many people throughout history have had encounters with demons/devils myself included. Unfortunately, these encounters are not easily reproducible, hence they hold no credibility in modern thought.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: Deviate]
    #18933029 - 10/04/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I have no idea how to reply to that. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: Deviate]
    #18933043 - 10/04/13 08:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If you define spirituality as one's approach to life, but traditionally spiritually has been understood to mean one's approach to the divine.

Well logic is my approach to the divine. My logic informs me of what an incomprehensible experience I'm involved in and I'm awed by that.  For some it might be mathematics.  To each his own brother.  Be open to other ways of perceiving the divine. Tradition can keep one from progressing as much as it can inform.  :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: Deviate]
    #18933273 - 10/04/13 09:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
But no one has found him right?  Is the devil(s) only part of the christian mythology?  I'm not so sure.






Many people throughout history have had encounters with demons/devils myself included. Unfortunately, these encounters are not easily reproducible, hence they hold no credibility in modern thought.




I saw a flying spaghetti monster.

:firecum:


--------------------


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: Icelander]
    #18933324 - 10/04/13 09:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
If you define spirituality as one's approach to life, but traditionally spiritually has been understood to mean one's approach to the divine.

Well logic is my approach to the divine. My logic informs me of what an incomprehensible experience I'm involved in and I'm awed by that.  For some it might be mathematics.  To each his own brother.  Be open to other ways of perceiving the divine. Tradition can keep one from progressing as much as it can inform.  :satansmoking:




Why do you need logic to inform you of what you are experiencing? Is it not possible to experience something without thinking about it?


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OfflineNastyDHL
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #18934817 - 10/05/13 05:27 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Open question: Would you weigh someone elses repeatable evidence more than your own personal experience?




That would be ignorant and retarded


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Faith is not a good thing [Re: Deviate]
    #18934861 - 10/05/13 05:55 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
If you define spirituality as one's approach to life, but traditionally spiritually has been understood to mean one's approach to the divine.

Well logic is my approach to the divine. My logic informs me of what an incomprehensible experience I'm involved in and I'm awed by that.  For some it might be mathematics.  To each his own brother.  Be open to other ways of perceiving the divine. Tradition can keep one from progressing as much as it can inform.  :satansmoking:




Why do you need logic to inform you of what you are experiencing? Is it not possible to experience something without thinking about it?




People make a mistake thinking the brain and heart are different. The brain experiences the most inward nuance of what the heart feels. Intelligence isn't actually a brain function at all. It's a condition of the heart which is what gives emotions meanings. Meanings which we must act upon. Thoughts in the brain go on like gas in the stomach. In fact maybe you fed your brain high quality food.  Thought is still the result. One might make a mistake that because their mind is fizzy that means they are more something - smart, spiritual, sexy, whatever, but those are thoughts, and they came and they went. What remained was what they felt like to the heart. When your heart opens to goodness and you can relax then you know intelligence is a maze. Only the heart holds the key. 

So to reiterate - logic though a thing of the mind is rooted in the heart which is where real discrimination comes from. 

The rest is just the farts of the brain.


--------------------
...or something







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