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OfflineShpongle1
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Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3,163
Loc: Above The Clouds
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: Smushroom]
    #18927060 - 10/03/13 06:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Smushroom said:
A lot of people are saying that its DPR's fault that he got busted and they seem to think he should have anticipated it. I have to play devil's advocate here and say that I think it was an honest mistake that 99% of other people in the same situation would have made.






Well just because 99% of other people might have made a similar mistake in no way takes away from whether the mistake was his fault.  The second portion of your opening statement may be accurate, but does not negate the initial statement it was designed to antagonize.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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OfflineCamwritesgonzo
The Unflushable Stool
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Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2,333
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Last seen: 6 months, 17 days
Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: Shpongle1]
    #18927358 - 10/03/13 06:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Hopefully this is only a kerfuffle in the tearing down of rigid government sanctions. DPR shouldn't have ordered the hit, plain and simple. Every action has an equal or greater reaction, and trying to take another person's life will, at the very least, destroy a person's livelihood, if not end in the forfeiture of that person's own life. Shit catches up with you eventually, especially if you leave a footprint. Protect yourselves and stay safe. This involves vital security measures as well as knowing your rights. The wolves are howling at the gates, best not to let them in.


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"I've always maintained that reality is for those who can't face drugs."-Tom Waits
"I feel the same way about disco as I feel about herpes."-Hunter S. Thompson
A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?


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InvisibleSmushroom
Avid Learner

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 2,806
Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: Shpongle1]
    #18927383 - 10/03/13 07:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I meant to put more emphasis on the fact that it wasn't really something he could have anticipated. It is near impossible to be 100% safe when it comes to illegal activities, especially online.

It also has to do with the size and fame that SR grew to. It is easy for us to look at it now and be like "he should have taken more precautions, moved to a foreign country, etc" and that is warranted for something of this size. However when DPR started SR I doubt he had any idea how big it would get or what scrutiny it would be under. Hard to justify extra time/effort/expense to go the extra mile at the time.

Look at it this way, if you go and buy an 1/8 of weed from your dealer it is pointless to run counter surveillance. However if you are going to pick up 10,000 lbs of weed you had better be watching the spot for hours/days beforehand and sweeping guys for bugs. I have a feeling for DPR that SR was like him going to pick up a bag of weed and all of a sudden he was handed 10k lbs before he knew what was going on.


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OfflineShpongle1
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Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3,163
Loc: Above The Clouds
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Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: Camwritesgonzo] * 2
    #18927390 - 10/03/13 07:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The biggest problem with this whole "hit" thing, in my eyes, is that it discounts one of the most important positive aspects of what SR was.  One of the big things anti-drug advocates talk about is the "street violence" created by drugs.  Without the damn "hit" messages, there would be no link between violence and many, many millions of dollars worth of drug trade.  No longer can we speak about how SR helped cut that violence out of the picture completely...  Not that it really matters.  But it does seem to make it look as if drugs and violence inherently go together, and that pisses me off, because of course its not true.  So fuck DPR for that one.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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Offlinedark3st
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Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 3,332
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Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: Shpongle1]
    #18927429 - 10/03/13 07:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

And the fucker who tried to blackmail him. It takes two sometimes.


--------------------
Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this.

OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX
free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.

no stamps atm

FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA  members ONLY

I have these seeds:
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InvisibleSmushroom
Avid Learner

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 2,806
Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: dark3st]
    #18927489 - 10/03/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Check out the NPR article on it

NPR article

It claims that the "hit" was staged by federal agents in Maryland. It said he now faces charges in NY (original indictment) and now Maryland because of it. I haven't seen the Maryland indictment yet, reading now and will look in a bit. Feel free to link it if anyone finds it.

It also makes several mentions of him being Libertarian and being part of Team Ron Paul. Not partisan at all :P


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker
Male

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,395
Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: dark3st]
    #18927553 - 10/03/13 07:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The fucker who tried to blackmail him had nothing to do with one paid assassination.

He hooked up someone looking to sell bulk cocaine to a vendor on the site with an admin on the site to fully work out the deal with the vendor who had expressed interest. The admin received the cocaine and was busted [because the bulk cocaine salesman was an undercover cop].

Following the arrest of the site admin the dude running the silk road said, "Hey, you need to torture this guy to get him to give back all of the money that was lost by the customers as a result of this incident," --- to the guy who he had set up the cocaine deal for... an undercover agent.

After that, he decided, "Nah, this guy just needs to die." and asked the undercover to kill the guy.

The undercover provides fake photos of the guy being tortured/killed and sends them to the guy who runs the silk road.

That right there, in and of itself, is way more than enough to pile on multiple charges.

And the undercover didn't even suggest torture/execution. It was all on the guy who was running the silk road's head. It was entirely his idea.

The blackmail is a simple followup/scam. Either an agent or a person working closely with the owner of the silk road decided he was going to flip some information, and the owner of the silk road decided (for the second time) that murder was the best way out of the situation.

It's all downhill from there.


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Offlineorison
mcfluffysugarnuts


Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 5,468
Last seen: 1 day, 1 hour
Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #18927572 - 10/03/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Lord_McLovin said:
Wow, this is the first time I have ever seen a thread getting as big as this in the news service subforum. Kind of disappointing actually, considering some of the articles posted in the subforum about the atrocities committed in the war on drugs.

I mean this is just an online drug marketplace. There's still drugs on the streets and soon other drug ebays will become as popular as silk road. The genie is out of the bottle on this one.



I made it this far damnit .. my heart will go on for two more pages.. :omgawesome:


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InvisibleSmushroom
Avid Learner

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 2,806
Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: Smushroom]
    #18927585 - 10/03/13 07:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Hrm... after reading that it has me thinking.

What if the cops busted a decent sized SR dealer either by tracing a package to him after a buy on SR or by busting him for a real life charge and just finding the data on his computer.

That dealer could have had names and addresses stored on his computer for shipping purposes.

The cops then pose as redandwhite (or whatever the blackmailer was) and threaten DPR to expose the info saying they actually got it by hacking into a dealers computer.

DPR ask to speak to the people they owe money to so r&w (fbi agent) connects them to his "dealer" (another fbi agent) that sets up the hit and produces fake torture photos.

DPR then pays him off giving himself another charge and giving the feds BTC which I imagine they tried to trace back to him directly.

***********

That sounds very plausible as to what could have happened. Assuming they had that planned out from the beginning it may have been easier for them to talk him into "ordering the hit" than for him to actually decide to order it on his own.

If that did play out like that and the FBI were the blackmailers there is a chance he could get that tossed for entrapment. While they can lie and offer contract killing services I am pretty sure they are not allowed to threaten/blackmail someone into committing a crime.

Hopefully that is what happened and he can get out of that charge. If all he is facing are drug and money laundering charges he'll get off fairly easy, probably 10 years fed time.


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker
Male

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,395
Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: Smushroom]
    #18927607 - 10/03/13 07:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I hope he rots in jail with a bigass black dick lodged in his anus, just for the lulz.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: Smushroom]
    #18927969 - 10/03/13 08:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe they will fake logs to make it seem like he ordered a hitman after seizing the server in order to give him lifetime ? , that was my first guess

but dunno, can't remember if I read somewhere he actually ordered a hitman before it got seized

but I know it isn't true, if anything it's probably something he wrote to scare scam-sellers from trying it in the future again

office space,the matrix, the power of now, writings about personal freedom, be here now  , and physics degree is his personality/facebook

so I know him by that, probably influenced by LSD and that book and wanted to help others initially without expecting it to get that big
but then the news hit the press and SR took off is my guess

pretty skilled coder, also using VPN and much linux technology in achieving the anonymity

lsd changes the world, SR changed the world, it won't be forgotten

without SR I would never have tried LSD likely, I had looked everywhere for many months

seems he was living of $1000 a month in a rented apartment with a few other people he didn't know, simple lifestyle, meditation etc :-) (noone knew he was making $80 million, not even family/friends)

he probably knew he wasn't his thoughts and felt like he had to help others, from what I've seen on his freedom speeches on SR/forum

when you find yourself you find much happiness and you have to bring that happiness to others


Edited by lessismore (10/03/13 09:21 PM)


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Offlinemylfgur
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Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 1,282
Loc: Ohio Flag
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Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: Smushroom]
    #18928007 - 10/03/13 08:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Smushroom said:
A lot of people are saying that its DPR's fault that he got busted and they seem to think he should have anticipated it. I have to play devil's advocate here and say that I think it was an honest mistake that 99% of other people in the same situation would have made.

I imagine when DPR came up with the idea for SR he had no clue how big it would become. I am sure his first thoughts were "This is an awesome idea, I'm going to post on some BTC forums and ask about programming ideas". He then used his real email to register for a forum to ask about programming advice.

Once SR started up he seems to have been very cautious in terms of online security. In any normal scale investigation the Feds would never go to the lengths of linking a random post about a programming question to the creating of a major drug market. However as SR got huge and got major media attention it put the pressure on the Feds to basically look for even the smallest of clues and thus they found the link.

I haven't went to the trouble of finding his post on bitcointalk so I don't know exactly what he ask about but I imagine it wasn't incriminating enough to draw any attention. Just so happens that after the fact it probably filled in a piece to the gov's puzzle.



Some users in this thread really need to read the criminal complaint and the indictment. I have to play devil's advocate and say that it was his fault that he got caught. All of the corroborating evidence and PC that DPR was slammed with in the complaint was obtained during retroactive investigation.

Just google it--Dread Pirate Roberts aka silk road Criminal complaint or indictment.

From what I can gather from the indictment, DPR had provided a narcotics agent (probably from a state narcotics bureau investigation at this time) with a buyer on silk road for 10 kilos of cocaine. As far as I can tell it was real cocaine. At this point there is little to no evidence to link him to the SR operation at all. About a month later, DPR--believing that the state agent he hooked up the coke deal with earlier in the month--tries to arrange a hit from the alleged drug organization on one of his employees. This is probably when the investigation goes federal. From here the Feds are swarming all over DPR because it's a career case and they've been documenting Silk Road for years, and now finally have a lead. The SR server is cloned and the federal agents fake the hit. It is only after the server is cloned that they seize fake identification en route to DPR. They do not bust DPR at this point because they don't have enough PC. They bring the forensic analysts in to analyze his code and internet history, with the help of some subpoenas (one likely to Shroomery for IP data on altoid). All of this evidence took time to build up so that DPR could be nailed to a wall.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: lessismore]
    #18928052 - 10/03/13 08:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

it would also seem ironic him making those rules about no firearms, no childporn, no hitmans

and then hiring a hitman himself... I don't believe it for a second

it was a scare tactic, nothing else... and it worked it seems
the document says there are no records of any person of that name/address mentioned he hired the hitman to go to , and noone missing in that area/near that date

I'm pretty sure he's strictly against violence and for personal freedom, you can know him by his facebook page... google his name
people who spend x years getting a physics degree are rarely violent :wink: , but they often like exploring their minds


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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: lessismore]
    #18928103 - 10/03/13 09:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mio said:
it would also seem ironic him making those rules about no firearms, no childporn, no hitmans

and then hiring a hitman himself... I don't believe it for a second





:facepalm:

He didn't hire a hit man because he liked to hire hitmen, his first attempted hit was a federal sting in which he corresponded to them that it was his "first time" doing something like that. He even expressed regret but ultimately decided that it was something that had to be done to protect the "sacrosanct" anonymity of the Silk Road. Think about it. He ordered hits not when his own security was jeopardized, but when also the security of the website was at risk. The two "hits" that he tried to have organized were on potential leakers who would have released buyer data, compromising the integrity of the website, in his eyes. Read the indictment.

Quote:


it was a scare tactic, nothing else... and it worked it seems
the document says there are no records of any person of that name/address mentioned he hired the hitman to go to , and noone missing in that area/near that date





Because there are no records of the person at the address or ever living in British Colombia doesn't mean that the Feds made the whole story up, it just means that the supposed hacker "FriendlyChemist" actually posed as his alleged narcotics providers. When "FriendlyChemist" corresponded with DPR masquerading as a rough, tough drug cartel guy and DPR offered them to pay to have killed whoever lived at "FriendlyChemist"'s alleged proxy location, the scammer probably realized that he didn't want DPR on his ass trying to order him dead. The guy has money, and potentially connections in the underworld. When the alleged suppliers quote him at 300,000 USD for a clean assassination and $150,000 for a dirty one, DPR tells them that the price sounds a little too steep, and that he recently had a hit done for $80,000 USD (referring to the Federal sting). In my mind, "FriendlyChemist" just cut his losses and decided that he would settle for 150 grand and call it quits.

Quote:


I'm pretty sure he's strictly against violence and for personal freedom, you can know him by his facebook page... google his name
people who spend x years getting a physics degree are rarely
violent :wink: , but they often like exploring their minds




These are federal affidavits garnered from stored communications from DPR when they corresponded with him and more from when they cloned his server. This is not some conspiracy theory. DPR is not some robin hood, and as much as he tries to morally justify his economic and political beliefs, at the end of the day he is just a businessman trying to protect his empire.


--------------------


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: lessismore]
    #18928151 - 10/03/13 09:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Make up your own mind, I know him by his picture on facebook, don't even have to read his personal details

but they just confirm :wink:

you can know a person by the energy they radiate

he doesn't look like a military guy/true criminal to me, I'd say he radiates love


Edited by lessismore (10/03/13 09:23 PM)


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OfflineQT3BFLEE
ส้
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Registered: 02/17/13
Posts: 744
Loc: Murica Flag
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Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: Smushroom]
    #18928179 - 10/03/13 09:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Smushroom said:
A lot of people are saying that its DPR's fault that he got busted and they seem to think he should have anticipated it. I have to play devil's advocate here and say that I think it was an honest mistake that 99% of other people in the same situation would have made.




The guy had a Masters degree and was operating a multi-million dollar drug empire. He should have anticipated a lot of things, especially that the feds were hot on his tail, and he should have had a damn good backup plan.

That $80 million would have paid for a lot of improvements and safe guards. Instead he shared a shitty apartment in San Francisco for $1,000 a month and probably hoped he could retire "someday".

Let me sum up this whole fiasco, and hopefully the next generation of multi-million drug barons will listen well:


--------------------
My Public Key


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InvisibleSuperD
Cacti junky
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Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: lessismore] * 1
    #18928210 - 10/03/13 09:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mio said:
Make up your own mind, I know him by his picture on facebook, don't even have to read his personal details

he doesn't look like a military guy/true criminal to me




You think you can know a person based on one photo or even multiple photos of them?  That just isn't the way the world and the people within it work.  Countless serial killers and rapists throughout the past century alone have had that same "good guy" look about them.  That's one reason they're able to lure so many victims in.  I'm not saying he's a serial killer or rapist, I'm only saying you can't judge a book by its cover.  I'm sure you've heard that saying before.  I won't even get into the whole radiating energy thing, lol.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade


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InvisibleSmushroom
Avid Learner

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 2,806
Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: lessismore]
    #18928278 - 10/03/13 09:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I read the entire charging document an hour after it was posted online, it was the NY indictment though, not the Maryland one. It did not mention the cocaine deal, only the blackmail hitman deal. That hitman scenario was the one I was referring to and it didn't seem that bad.

I am just now learning about the Maryland indictment and reading it. As I'm reading through it does go a long way to making DPR look pretty bad and he did screw himself there. I apologize for my statement above, I hadn't read the 2nd indictment when I made it.

*******

I will say that you are wrong in saying that the PC was found after the fact. From reading the 2 documents its pretty clear that the agency in Maryland and the agency in New York were running 2 separate investigations. The NY agency tracked him down via the forum posting using his own email and the fake IDs and the Md agency was behind the cocaine/hitman thing that flipped his employee.

The NY FBI office issued the arrest warrant and busted him, that was the first indictment posted online and goes into a lot more detail. That is also what most of the news outlets ran with. The MD document was posted later in the day which is why I never noticed it until now.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: SuperD]
    #18928289 - 10/03/13 09:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Please quote my whole post next time, thanks :wink:

anyone who has taken LSD enough will know his personality


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InvisibleSuperD
Cacti junky
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Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
Re: FEDS SEIZE SILK ROAD [Re: lessismore] * 4
    #18928338 - 10/03/13 09:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not even sure what you mean by anyone who has taken enough LSD will know his personality.  LSD has nothing to do with knowing someones personality.  How'd that work out for Charles Manson and his crew?

I could post dozens of photos here of regular joes with a few serial killers or rapists mixed in and you wouldn't be able to accurately tell me who's who without Googling or getting extremely lucky with guesses.  Sorry :shrug:  I'll let you return to your magical view of the world though.  I'm not here to shit on anyones parade.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade


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