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Invisiblelaughingsol
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water soluble poisons in mushrooms
    #18928149 - 10/03/13 09:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I realize this is outside of the scope of this forum, but I also believe someone that might read this may have the answer to this question.

Are there any water soluble poisons in mushrooms? Do people die from making mushroom teas? or even get sick?


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Offlinehidyn
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Re: water soluble poisons in mushrooms [Re: laughingsol]
    #18928237 - 10/03/13 09:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The possibility is definitely there. Sure mushrooms filter a lot of stuff through the mycelial network but its totally conceivable that mushrooms found in the field could have absorbed something that just passed right through and collected in the fruiting body. As for examples of such chemicals or any actual documentation, I've got nothing. :smile:

Of course if you were collecting from a riparian environment just downstream from some kind of shady chemical research facility, I'd be wary about eating anything. :wink:


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Invisiblelaughingsol
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Re: water soluble poisons in mushrooms [Re: hidyn]
    #18928651 - 10/03/13 10:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not really talking about environmental toxins.  Mushrooms can pick up environmental toxins (like heavy metals). In that case, even "gourmet edibles" should be viewed with caution. 

I guess I kind of answered my own question by remembering that Aminita muscaria has a toxin that can be removed by boiling and throwing out the water- so yes, there are water soluble poisons.  But I'm still curious, has anyone ever heard of a deadly poisoning from mushroom tea.  Obviously, no one should try it, and this is not the only toxin I'm interested in, but is alpha-amanitin water soluble?


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Offlinehidyn
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Re: water soluble poisons in mushrooms [Re: laughingsol]
    #18929707 - 10/04/13 05:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)



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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: water soluble poisons in mushrooms [Re: hidyn]
    #18930263 - 10/04/13 09:13 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hidyn said:
The possibility is definitely there. Sure mushrooms filter a lot of stuff through the mycelial network but its totally conceivable that mushrooms found in the field could have absorbed something that just passed right through and collected in the fruiting body.




Like what?

No.  Nobody dies from mushroom tea.  Never happens unless you manage to gather some of couple of the rare, easily identifiable, poisonous ones.

Nobody picks mushrooms from behind a shady factory or from a toxic waste dump.

You are plain old fear-mongering unless you can at least show it's happened to somebody, somewhere.


-FF


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Offlinehidyn
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Re: water soluble poisons in mushrooms [Re: fastfred]
    #18938753 - 10/06/13 02:20 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Well I won't deny that I'm paranoid about almost everything. But to be fair, the OP didn't give any specifics.

Are you going to get sick from mushroom tea?

You can't give out a simple "no" to that question. It's irresponsible.


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OfflineJimbolino
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Re: water soluble poisons in mushrooms [Re: fastfred]
    #18938929 - 10/06/13 04:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
Quote:

hidyn said:
The possibility is definitely there. Sure mushrooms filter a lot of stuff through the mycelial network but its totally conceivable that mushrooms found in the field could have absorbed something that just passed right through and collected in the fruiting body.




Like what?

No.  Nobody dies from mushroom tea.  Never happens unless you manage to gather some of couple of the rare, easily identifiable, poisonous ones.

Nobody picks mushrooms from behind a shady factory or from a toxic waste dump.

You are plain old fear-mongering unless you can at least show it's happened to somebody, somewhere.


-FF




What about all the mushrooms from (eastern) europe, especially chanterelles, which can be quite heavily contaminated with radioactive compounds from Chernobyl?


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Offlineiateshaggy
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Re: water soluble poisons in mushrooms [Re: Jimbolino]
    #18941306 - 10/06/13 05:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

don't go picking in a nuclear fallout and u will be fine.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: water soluble poisons in mushrooms [Re: iateshaggy]
    #18941453 - 10/06/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

What about all the mushrooms from (eastern) europe, especially chanterelles, which can be quite heavily contaminated with radioactive compounds from Chernobyl?




What about the mushrooms that always appear around UFO landing sites?

You can spout ignorant fearmongering all day long.

Quote:

Well I won't deny that I'm paranoid about almost everything. But to be fair, the OP didn't give any specifics.
Are you going to get sick from mushroom tea?
You can't give out a simple "no" to that question. It's irresponsible.




Ignorant fearmongering is irresponsible.  Spreading fear with no rational basis is irresponsible.  It's pure disinformation.

If you know of a REAL danger or have safety advice that might help someone then feel free to post it.  If you just want to spout irrational fears with no basis then you should probably just keep your mouth shut.

Making posts in an authoritative tone using mycological terms may confuse someone into thinking you actually know what you're talking about.


-FF


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Offlinej_db69
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Re: water soluble poisons in mushrooms [Re: fastfred]
    #18941583 - 10/06/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Is fungus LESS likely to leech heavy metals and/or radioactive substances than most vegetable/fruit species?  They appear to break down more contaminates that are harmful to humans at least.  Anyone have good sources on the matter?


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: water soluble poisons in mushrooms [Re: j_db69]
    #18941723 - 10/06/13 06:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

j_db69 said:
Is fungus LESS likely to leech heavy metals and/or radioactive substances than most vegetable/fruit species?  They appear to break down more contaminates that are harmful to humans at least.  Anyone have good sources on the matter?




Since mushrooms aren't a significant source of metabolic energy (they are largely indigestible), they don't usually make up any large portion of people's diets.

Because of this they have probably never caused any illness in this respect.  I'm sure you can google up plenty of research on the issue of heavy metal uptake.

I doubt it's as significant as in fish, which actually consume and digest random material in their environment, and are constantly swimming in and breathing their environmental contaminants.

Fish would be a problem worth worrying about.  Plenty of people consume fish as their majority source of food.  IMHO, the 0.001% of your diet that might be from mushrooms isn't worth worrying about.  If the levels were significantly higher than say fish or seaweed we'd know about it already, and it still probably wouldn't be worth worrying about.

IIRC, RR was once concerned about growing on printed paper substrate.  He worried about lead or other toxics in the ink, so he sent some sample off for GC/MS.  Nothing significant was discovered.


Back to the OP's question...
No there aren't normally soluble poisons in non-poisonous mushrooms.
If you use mushrooms that grow from toxic waste dumps... #1 you're an idiot, and #2 it would still not be a significant source in your diet.

Mercury laden fish prompted the FDA to suggest that pregnant women, nursing mothers, and children limit their consumption to two meals a week.

So if you are a pregnant woman, nursing mother, or child... then I suggest that you eat no more than 12 ounces (two meals) per week of mushrooms growing from toxic waste dumps or other contaminated substrates.

If you really HAVE to eat toxic waste mushrooms then you can STILL certainly keep that to under 12 oz./week right?


-FF


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: water soluble poisons in mushrooms [Re: fastfred]
    #18944591 - 10/07/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If you make a tea from deadly mushrooms and drink it, you will get really sick and might die.

I think that all the dangerous mycotoxins are water soluable.


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InvisibleAmphibolos
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Re: water soluble poisons in mushrooms [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #18945729 - 10/07/13 04:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Aflatoxins shouldn't be hydrosoluble.


But its not a deadly toxin per se


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Offlinehidyn
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Re: water soluble poisons in mushrooms [Re: fastfred]
    #18950149 - 10/08/13 03:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Truth, I misunderstood the OP's question as can water soluble poisons end up in mushrooms as opposed to generating them.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: water soluble poisons in mushrooms [Re: Amphibolos]
    #18957866 - 10/10/13 03:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Amphibolos said:
Aflatoxins shouldn't be hydrosoluble.


But its not a deadly toxin per se




Aflatoxins are extremely deadly.  They're some of the most poisonous substances known to man.

Let's PLEASE all quit spewing ignorance out our asses here!


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InvisibleAmphibolos
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Re: water soluble poisons in mushrooms [Re: fastfred]
    #18958033 - 10/10/13 05:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Well, you cannot consider them as deadly than the amanitins.


Since you wont die from a low dose of aflatoxin, and we are frequently exposed to these low doses (well if you eat peanut butter that is)


But you will be getting sick (and potentially dead) from low doses of amanitins.


Thats what i meant as "not deadly"


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: water soluble poisons in mushrooms [Re: Amphibolos]
    #18958106 - 10/10/13 06:35 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Wannemacher and others estimate the lethal aflatoxin B1 dose for 50% of the exposed population is one to four milligrams per kilogram of human body weight.




Quote:

Aflatoxins are one of the most potent toxic substances that occur naturally. These are a group of closely related mycotoxins produced by fungi Aspergillus flavus and A. parasiticus.




Amatoxins can be 2-10x as deadly.  But I'd say that if 70mg is a coin flip with your life... then it's plenty toxic.


-FF

P.S.  No offence intended by my earlier harshness, I'm just excitable sometimes.


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