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 Rastafari
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 1,143
Last seen: 14 years, 1 day
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holy person once said (something to the effect) that science is good to a certain degree...
and that a man was watching television...and he saw a spaceship going to the moon...and he changes the channel, on the other one a person pushed another down and trampled him to fight with another for a few grains of rice...
I think there is more important tasks to attend to in this world than finding water on mars
there are places where water has become privately owned and now the people cannot afford to buy water anymore
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I&I
Edited by Rastafari (09/09/03 03:11 PM)
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)
Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
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 Re: Science's Quest for God  [Re: Autonomous]
#1897093 - 09/09/03 02:58 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
... So, the high preists of the Scientific Citadels, the pointy headed uber nerds of the modern secular religion, are doing what the priestcraft of countless belief systems that have come before them have done, making shit up. This is not science, this is fantasy (brainiac fantasy, but fantasy nonetheless).
That's exactly what I think about GUT's,but couldn't formulate into words.
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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams
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 Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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 Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: trendal]
#1897108 - 09/09/03 03:03 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Science needs to look under their nose
Stop ignoring the obvious
God is everywhere.. in each human.. complete.. in every cycle of nature.. complete.. in every animal and plant.. complete.. in every star and void of space.. God is consciousness, life, evolution and creation, and it is all around us at all time.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: Ped]
#1897123 - 09/09/03 03:08 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Science Is Too Often Knowledge Without Awareness.
Sitokwa is the Hopi word for unification. Weird or what?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Ever notice how certain mollusks like clams look remarkably like vaginal labia?
Why Markos, have you been "dipping into the clam sauce" ? That visual image makes "American Pie" seem tame by comparison.
Funny, but I have a sudden hankering for seafood...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,396
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 3 months, 4 days
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Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: Rastafari]
#1897133 - 09/09/03 03:15 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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What would god do if we could discover his true essence ? What would we do ? What would change ? Who would make things change ? God or us ?
If i was god and mankind, for some reason, manages to find out my secrets, i would imediately put an end in this era and start a new one, after all i'm god and i should be the one with the decision of when and how truth will be given. If there is god, then it's pretty obvious that he doesn't want us to find anything substantially new about his essence.
That's why i think the question about wether or not god exists is very futile, they're all man made theories, i choose not to worry about that question, i have my own vision of a perfect god and that's more than enough.
MAIA
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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 
Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: MAIA]
#1897148 - 09/09/03 03:26 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's why i think the question about wether or not god exists is very futile, they're all man made theories...
(Gawd, I love redundancy.) How can man make make a theory that is not man-made?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Rhizoid
carbon unit
Registered: 01/22/00
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 2 months, 5 days
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Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: Sclorch]
#1897226 - 09/09/03 04:56 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The fundamental motivation behind GUT/Superstring/whatever is a desire for an absolute foundation. Psychologically-speaking, this indicates an insecurity. I posit that this insecurity is the fear of the unknown. I think this fear is due to people feeling uncomfortable in their own skins - a lack of faith in self. Oh, sure, they may have big egos, but that's not faith in self... that's merely the faith-equivalent of saccharine.
I think we'd all be alot better off if the supergeeks spent more time on decreasing pollution and whatnot.
Well, in the 19th century when the supergeeks were trying to find a unified foundation for the forces of electricity and magnetism, I bet there were people who complained that they should spend more time doing "useful" stuff instead...
I see the search for a Grand Unified Theory (GUT) as a continuation of that part of science that tries to push the boundary between form and substance further towards the substance end of the scale.
A confirmed GUT will definitely provide us with previously unknown knowledge about the universe, even if that knowledge indicates that the boundary between form and substance can be pushed even further. By definition, a GUT unifies the three forces of quantum physics with gravity. It doesn't claim to explain everything.
A Theory Of Everything (TOE) doesn't really claim that either, except for people who have faith in super-reductionism. But a TOE should at least claim that it has pushed that form/substance boundary to its ultimate limit. Perhaps the mythical TOE could be seen as the purely physical aspect of God. This would of course depend on the definition of "God", as usual.
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,396
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 3 months, 4 days
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Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: Swami]
#1897286 - 09/09/03 05:35 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
(Gawd, I love redundancy.) How can man make make a theory that is not man-made?
A theory made with the inspiration of the true divine. A theory made with the supreme and not for the supreme but valid for all of us to understand. Afterall we are the ones needing the theory, not god.
Such a theory would not be man made in its true essence. My point is, if the first step is to be taken by god, you should witness some divine intervention first.
MAIA
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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: MAIA]
#1897562 - 09/09/03 08:58 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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A theory made with the supreme ...
And who determines that but other men? Hence we are back to square one - a man-made theory, blessed by CERTAIN men as a God-made one. Who determines who the CERTAIN men are?
...and not for the supreme
but against the supreme!
...but valid for all of us to understand
If valid, then it is no longer a theory, but a fact, now isn't it?
Thanks for clarifying!
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The proof is in the pudding.
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: Swami]
#1897776 - 09/09/03 10:48 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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The search for a GUT is an utter waste of time.
the goal of science should be practical, not spiritual.
the universe will never be fully understood with binary logic anyway. Thats why God gave us a Right brain.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada 
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Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: Rhizoid]
#1897784 - 09/09/03 10:50 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I find it slightly amusing that there aren't really many predictions about how GUT will help us if it is completed. The taming of the electromagnetic force my Maxwell has had more effect on everyday life in the past 100 years that I could point out.
A single equation to describe all physical process?
The idea alone gave me chills the first time I came accross it 
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: DoctorJ]
#1897790 - 09/09/03 10:52 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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The search for a GUT is not a waste for a time. Look what Maxwell did and what it has resulted in?
You're on your computer right now, aren't you?
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: Rastafari]
#1897816 - 09/09/03 11:00 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think there is more important tasks to attend to in this world than finding water on mars
Ah, so YOU will decide how others should spend their time and energy?
Isn't it enough to decide how YOU can best help and leave others to their own pursuits?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: DoctorJ]
#1897824 - 09/09/03 11:03 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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The search for a GUT is an utter waste of time.
Please share the things that you do that are NOT an "utter waste of time."
the goal of science should be practical, not spiritual.
Yes, science should only research the topics that YOU deem worthy.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: Swami]
#1897908 - 09/09/03 11:26 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I just think that String Theorists are putting the cart before the horse.
That sounds like bad science to me.
Also, how long ago was it when Einstein first put for the notion of a GUT theory - 80+ years ago? How much closer have we come? How many other scientific "breakthroughs" have taken so many people that long to figure out?
These are just some of the questions that make GUT-type theories seem like pie in the sky.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: Sclorch]
#1897960 - 09/09/03 11:39 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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The ability to theorize ahead of what we currently "know" is very common among scientists. That's not bad science, it's normal science. String theory may be a little ahead of normal, but that's the reason it's still a very theoretical branch of physics.
GUT was proposed 80+ years ago, yeah. How long did it take Galileo to have his view of the solar system realized?
The fact is that GUT is somewhat based in math that we do not fully understand yet. String theory is much more so. String theory involves geometries that are vital to the theory but which we know hardly no math for.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: trendal]
#1898591 - 09/09/03 02:49 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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GUT was proposed 80+ years ago, yeah. How long did it take Galileo to have his view of the solar system realized?
BUT Galileo had mounds of empirical evidence. What do the String Theorists have? Nothing.
The fact is that GUT is somewhat based in math that we do not fully understand yet. String theory is much more so.
Just because it is possible to take a few mathematical liberties, it doesn't follow that these shortcuts will apply to reality - the horse (experimental evidence) is supposed to come BEFORE the cart (theory).
String theory involves geometries that are vital to the theory but which we know hardly no math for.
No... it's all about the inaccessibility of E9 symmetry. If you can't get the gist of a theory without having to spend four plus years studying math, then I'd say there is somethng fishy about it. Every other theory can be summarized pretty easily.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: Sclorch]
#1898646 - 09/09/03 03:07 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well I can see we aren't going to agree on this one, Sclorch, and the validity of string theory wasn't what I was discussing in the first place
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida 
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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 Re: Science's Quest for God [Re: Swami]
#1898651 - 09/09/03 03:08 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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*Slurp*
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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