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OfflineMuffinShroomMan
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Registered: 09/30/13
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Cyclic
    #18923297 - 10/02/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'd like to start a convo.... if I may be so bold... about why peace and love can't ever seem to win... and why humans refuse to learn from past mistakes globally.

First off... I'm 23... I've always been better than everyone my age intellectually.... and always sound arrogant to more aged veterans who seem to have experienced everything I have... and every attempt for those more intellectually advanced to "show me the light" have been blocked by my impervious ability to out logic any ideology that comes into play. So I will admit... before going further.... I probably have some underlying self-esteem issues that... coupled with my intelligence beyond my years... lead me in my own self-perpetuating cycle of SUPER intelligence.... and SUPER stupidity. I suppose I feel like I have "smarts" beyond my information in my head.

Basically what I'm saying... is I'm sorry if I sound like a douche bag... I can't help it. But I do care more about your guys' opinions than you will ever care about mine... so you win by default. Congratulations. Lol.




Now.... here's whats been troubling my mind lately... this cycle.

Anarchy leads to revolution.... revolution leads to democracy.... democracy leads to compromise... compromise leads to socialism... socialism leads to anarchy.

I mainly speak of the united states... for being an American... I know only about.... America.... lol. But it shows itself to vividly as my country is showing the signs of freedom turning to socialism.

Why can't our chaos be kept in line with peace love and goodwill?

Why is that such a difficult thing to ask of humanity?




I believe it is because we are all selfish. And when we fall in love.... our selfishness... turns to selfish for the one we love and ourself.... then we have kids... and our selfishness goes to our kids. We work hard for our families. We submit for our families. We "grow up" for our families.

Those of us without families... who strive to find philosophy... find Anarchy the only answer.... because we refuse to be selfish... but physically can't stop ourselves?

Why can no one care about random people more than themselves? Or the entire human race....

In movies people give their lives all the time to save the extinction of the race.... I like to believe under that grave circumstance people would give their lives...

But where else? Where else do we go outside our own bubble? Truly.

I give money to the poor... I'll help an old lady with her groceries...

But am I really taking my own pleasures out of the equation? Or does it just make me feel good to help others?

I truly believe this part.... and I know its going to sound left-wing nutjob kind of thing....

The human race has a flaw.... and that flaw is selfishness.... and even when I realize it's there.... I can't stop it. I can't. Unless I have kids.... then its just there in another form.

I've come close to losing my mind a few times pondering these ideals...

Ways to fix it...

But how can I fix the world... if I can't even fix myself?

I've been told to find god.... but really.... god is just a common ground for us to replace out selfishness with. Something to strive for when we die... its still being selfish to believe in god. To hope there's a bigger role.

Why can't our common ground be... that we need no common ground?

I'll end with two lines I love the most...

Come together... right now.... over me. - Beatles


Cogito Ergo Sum  - Descartes


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18923389 - 10/02/13 09:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Anarchy leads to revolution.... revolution leads to democracy.... democracy leads to compromise... compromise leads to socialism... socialism leads to anarchy.




Are you certain of this cycle? How many iterations have you observed?


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OfflineMuffinShroomMan
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Re: Cyclic [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #18923447 - 10/02/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DisoRDeR said:
Quote:

Anarchy leads to revolution.... revolution leads to democracy.... democracy leads to compromise... compromise leads to socialism... socialism leads to anarchy.




Are you certain of this cycle? How many iterations have you observed?





I suppose I'm not certain... What does that mean? Am I wrong? Is that not the cycle?

I feel like greed will always overcome... you know? Why must my father slave like a beast to keep everything in check? To what avail? He's 49 now... probably going to die in a few years... smartest man I know... and he has nothing. I mean... he has a house... a new truck... wife has a new car... he has everything.... but what does he really have? 10 hour days? 6 days a week? 2 hour commute.

What hope do I have if a better man than me can't make it?

What do I strive for?

This life is just wasted unless high. Everyone looks at me as lost potential... WHAT FUCKING POTENTIAL? What can I do??? HOW can I change the world if I can't fix myself?


I truly feel this feeling... deep in me... I can't even describe it... when I listen to music... when I read of phiosophy.... I feel like I have the answer... but every time I try to utter it... im shot down by SOMEone.

There MUST be an answer.... there MUST be some perfect collection of words... that will tear the binds of our cultures... create perfect harmony... create a life worth living... for itself. I dont know... I'm lost.

I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore... I go back and forth between my ideology and my personal strafes... I'm so egotistical and I can't stop it.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3


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OfflineMuffinShroomMan
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Registered: 09/30/13
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Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18923508 - 10/02/13 09:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm sorry if I ramble on... I go off topic way too easily.


I have a skill... I can tell what people are thinking...

Now bare with me...

By saying a certain phrase... or asking a series of questions... or observing an individual... you can find out their ulterior motives... for everything.

And the moment you bring that thing to the service... they use a beautiful diversion to hide it... they cry. And the way I know it is a diversion... is they cry for the wrong thing. This barrier that stops a fake person from being real...

They lie to THEMSELVES. Its incredible. I have found... that every person I've picked apart... including my own father... is FAKE. It blows my god damn mind every time I do it.

But here's the kicker.... every person I've proven to be fake... HASNT CHANGED. They just smile like they are caught and CONTINUE doing it. I don't fucking get it. If you are PROVEN fake... you STOP. Logically that is sound.


I believe the way to bring peace and love is through education.... and I believe education is only retained when education is sought...

So how can I stop someone from being fake... if they 1. dont know they are fake... and 2. dont want to change.



Edit:

Just looking to talk really. Any thoughts about anything are welcome. The main focus is world peace here. How can it be obtained. Lets brainstorm ideas even if we know its impossible.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3


Edited by MuffinShroomMan (10/02/13 09:29 PM)


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Registered: 08/29/02
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Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18923729 - 10/02/13 10:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Putting aside my previous question for a moment...

I can relate to some of what you're saying.  I'm sure in the eyes of many I'm a big bag of wasted potential as well.  I think there are plenty of 'too smart for their own good' people around here who fell off the mainstream culture-wagon and are rather disappointed with the world.  Welcome. 


Quote:

If you are PROVEN fake... you STOP. Logically that is sound.




It is sound only if the person proven fake values being genuine above all else.  If they value other things then other behaviours can be expected. 

Quote:

I suppose I'm not certain... What does that mean? Am I wrong? Is that not the cycle?




It may be a possible cycle, but you've created a strange linkage there.  There are obviously alternatives and gradations to that process.  If there weren't, then every power structure in the world could easily be placed at a point in the cycle.

Revolution is a change in political structure, and since I know of no surviving anarchic societies I won't argue about the first stage in your cycle (anarchy -> revolution).

Revolutions have resulted in non-democratic societies though, so the next linkage (revolution -> democracy) is a fail.

Democracy leads to compromise?  I don't know what this means.  Compromise was present since the first two humans made a deal.

To say that compromise leads to socialism and socialism leads to anarchy is to paint with rather broad strokes.  I don't really know what you're talking about at this point.  Compromise has led to fat-free yogurt and low-quality chinese lawnmowers. 

Show me where socialism has led to anarchy.


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OfflineMuffinShroomMan
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Registered: 09/30/13
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Re: Cyclic [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #18923749 - 10/02/13 10:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Let me try to explain my erratic thoughts...

When I say democracy... I kind of mean ... a grouping of people. So a society being formed to be strong. They start off to guard themselves... and welcome others with the promise of safety... and the compromises would be slowly taking more and more of their people... until the structure turns from strong and safe... to strong and controlled. The control goes beyond the strength... and the anarchy begins.

I suppose saying democracy and socialism was too broad...

Can you help me reword it? There's definitely something there...


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3


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OfflineMuffinShroomMan
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Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 1,079
Last seen: 1 year, 5 days
Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18923759 - 10/02/13 10:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not very good with forum quotes and what not...

But thank you for welcoming me into non-mainstream culture. I've been here a while... just figuring it out myself you know? Gotten to the point where I crave direction... as well as knowledge...  I need to get back into college to get more info in my head. Trying to learn on your own has its benefits... but definitely has its limits.

Sure does suck you cant fix people... I cant grasp why they would want to lie over telling the truth. Especially when they are found out. Its like they want a story to be told instead of the real them.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18923925 - 10/02/13 11:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

why peace and love can't ever seem to win




Direct answer please with no quibbling. If humans were not extremely violent and aggressive creatures do you think you would be alive today?


--------------------


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OfflineMuffinShroomMan
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Re: Cyclic [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18923941 - 10/02/13 11:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

why peace and love can't ever seem to win




Direct answer please with no quibbling. If humans were not extremely violent and aggressive creatures do you think you would be alive today?




No I don't. I guess a good virus is an aggressive one.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18923983 - 10/02/13 11:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well then, your question about peace and love has been answered. :mypleasure:


--------------------


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OfflineMuffinShroomMan
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Registered: 09/30/13
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Re: Cyclic [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18924005 - 10/02/13 11:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Well then, your question about peace and love has been answered. :mypleasure:




So the answer is... we are an infection that can never change? Seriously?


Edit:

I'm sorry but I refuse to end it there. We need the nuclear war. We need an apocalypse. We need an answer. Reboot! REBOOT! Wheres the god damn button! I'll press the fuck out of it.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3


Edited by MuffinShroomMan (10/03/13 12:04 AM)


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OfflineMuffinShroomMan
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Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18924062 - 10/03/13 12:13 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

A group of people... rising up with an idea... with no ulterior motives in mind... fighting for peace... will end this facade. It will. And once we are there.... it will all come crashing down. So I say.... for my own life.... fuck it. I'm gonna be fucked up... whenever I can... give two shits about nothing... and speak of broken and flawed logic anarchy. For as long as I have a breath to take in. I will be the armchair philosopher... arguing into the wind. Fighting the troll army forever.


So.... lets talk about peace and love shall we? Is pot the answer? Woodstock worked pretty solid I hear.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan] * 1
    #18924123 - 10/03/13 12:46 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Woodstock was an event - a celebratory escape if you will; not a way of life.

The Haight was an experiment that quickly degraded into a drug-fueled slum. There was nothing beautiful about it after that first summer.

Community? Eventually someone has to be in charge which brings resentment.

Sharing and equality? Someone always gets the best house with the best view.

Free love? That is fine until jealousy sets in then all hell breaks loose.

Sorry to tell you there is no utopian answer. :ohwell:


Quote:

with no ulterior motives in mind




That is pure naivete. What is the glue if there is no end game?


--------------------


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OfflineMuffinShroomMan
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Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18924155 - 10/03/13 01:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

When I say no ulterior motives I mean a selfless motive. Something like education to all. Bringing the idea to everyone.

Eventually someone has to be in charge?

Why is that? Why can't we all run around in circles and talk on the interwebs about idears. It works doesnt it? Seriously. Outcasts change because they are outcasts.... and if we had no system in place... who would they blow up? Who would they shoot down? The group that shunned them in the first place? So be it!

Sharing and equality? Tricky statement.... I believe in earning what you get... and if that means you need to earn your right for me to share with you... so be it. And if all that means is become a friend... have we won? Or if I dont have to spare... don't? If my wants outweigh their needs.... so be it. Work can be done for services rendered... to keep the needy alive.

Free love? I don't mean to share women... I mean to just simply give a fuck. Hell... GIVE TWO!


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3


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OfflineMuffinShroomMan
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Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18924169 - 10/03/13 01:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Shit is complicated.... seriously complicated....

I just want everyone to care.... thats all I want. Care about themselves... care about others... care about their race... care about the past... care about the future...

Why are people either fake or dont give a shit? Where is the true hero? The one who fights for what he believes in for the sake of those beliefs. One who doesnt fold under pressure. One who stays true to his ideals. One who takes himself out of the equation.

I cant do it. I'm too god damn weak and stupid and unstable and irrational and illogical.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18924170 - 10/03/13 01:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Your first post is really long, didn't read it past the first few lines. Anyway, you should take a philosophy class. I think you'd like it.

Also, you should try to be less egotistical.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Cyclic [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #18924171 - 10/03/13 01:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The human race has a flaw.... and that flaw is selfishness..

Duh!  This is old news around here for many of us.  Yet I can't see it as a "flaw" except subjectively.  All life is selfish it seems and that insures it's survival and chances at procreation.  If there's a problem it's with how nature itself operates. We are doing what we were designed to do.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Cyclic [Re: Icelander]
    #18924179 - 10/03/13 01:16 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

We are doing what we were designed to do.




Taking enemy heads as trophies, getting drunk and banging bitches?


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Cyclic [Re: nooneman]
    #18924180 - 10/03/13 01:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Your first post is really long, didn't read it past the first few lines. Anyway, you should take a philosophy class. I think you'd like it.

Also, you should try to be less egotistical.




He was hardly being egotistical imo. And his post was not very long and well broken up with paragraphs and so easy to read. 

What a dumb response . :thumbdown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMuffinShroomMan
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Re: Cyclic [Re: nooneman]
    #18924184 - 10/03/13 01:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Your first post is really long, didn't read it past the first few lines. Anyway, you should take a philosophy class. I think you'd like it.

Also, you should try to be less egotistical.





How? When you know it is what is encoded in your DNA....

I've been in and out of the psych ward the passed 2 months... My love for my girl is changing me... and I refuse to change.

She sticks with me through everything... shes still at my side. My care for her grows every day... I find myself thinking of her first... before my ideals... before me.

I dont want to be like everyone else. I cant let the only thing I've known for so long change...

I know it happens... I've pointed it out my whole life... I've fought every step of the way... and now I'm in love. Why must I go with nature? Why must I fall for her... have children... and die.

Why must this cycle continue? Why isnt there another way?

Why cant I stay here and have her too? Why do I tear up when I think of losing her? Why cant I fight it?


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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