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OfflineMushMaster
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why addicts relapse
    #18922653 - 10/02/13 05:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If you are suffering from addiction and want to understand the neurobiology behind addiction/relapse this psychologist explains it pretty well.



Dr. Montes: Neurobiology of Addiction Part 1 The Treatment Center, on YouTube if link doesn't work


--------------------
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. -Bene Gesserit Litany against fear
Armin van Burren @ EDC Orlando 2012


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Invisiblesmack
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Re: why addicts relapse [Re: MushMaster]
    #18922680 - 10/02/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Link not working. :sad:


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14:31


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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: MushMaster] * 3
    #18922690 - 10/02/13 06:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

This thread was moved from Other Drugs Discussion.

Reason:
Better suited here.


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Invisiblesmack
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: Cyclohexylamine] * 2
    #18922813 - 10/02/13 06:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I makes sense, I have no other real explanation for why I still use heroin.


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Invisiblesmack
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: smack]
    #18922834 - 10/02/13 06:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

"The closest comparison we have to cravings is not eating for 2 to 3 days"


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14:31


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OfflineKing Klick
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: smack] * 1
    #18922865 - 10/02/13 06:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

smack said:
"The closest comparison we have to cravings is not eating for 2 to 3 days"



After 2 or 3 days I get used to being hungry and can get over it. Isn't that for most people?


--------------------
Your god is dead, and I killed him.

When you’re lost, here I am. Forever with your soul



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Invisiblesmack
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: smack]
    #18922882 - 10/02/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

But when presented with the prospect of eating, you are more likely to compulsively indulge.

If I'm hungry, I'll dip into my roommates open bag of chips. If I just had a meal in the last few hours, I wont.


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14:31


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OfflineKing Klick
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: smack]
    #18922887 - 10/02/13 06:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

smack said:
But when presented with the prospect of eating, you are more likely to compulsively indulge.

If I'm hungry, I'll dip into my roommates open bag of chips. If I just had a meal in the last few hours, I wont.



Huh, that explained it.


--------------------
Your god is dead, and I killed him.

When you’re lost, here I am. Forever with your soul



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Invisibleunknown1123
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: King Klick]
    #18922976 - 10/02/13 07:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

lack of will power


--------------------


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InvisibleAnonamoose
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: unknown1123] * 1
    #18922999 - 10/02/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

This won't play for me... can anyone pass on a youtube link? :flowers:


--------------------

:fishy:  :turtle:  :squid:  :duckie:  :zilla:  :prawn:  :hypnotoad:  :tux:

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OfflineLed Zeppelin
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: Anonamoose] * 4
    #18923017 - 10/02/13 07:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

today my buddy was like "I get clean all the fucking time" kinda made me think for a second and chuckle


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Invisiblesmack
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #18923023 - 10/02/13 07:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
today my buddy was like "I get clean all the fucking time" kinda made me think for a second and chuckle



Sounds like me every time I run out of money! :rofl:


--------------------
14:31


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OfflineMushMaster
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: unknown1123]
    #18923459 - 10/02/13 09:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

unknown1123 said:
lack of will power




Ur ignorance amazes


--------------------
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. -Bene Gesserit Litany against fear
Armin van Burren @ EDC Orlando 2012


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OfflineMushMaster
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: Anonamoose]
    #18923473 - 10/02/13 09:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Anonamoose said:
This won't play for me... can anyone pass on a youtube link? :flowers:




Search YouTube- Dr. Montes: Neurobiology of Addiction Part 1 The Treatment Center, on YouTube if link doesn't work


--------------------
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. -Bene Gesserit Litany against fear
Armin van Burren @ EDC Orlando 2012


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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: smack]
    #18923485 - 10/02/13 09:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

smack said:
Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
today my buddy was like "I get clean all the fucking time" kinda made me think for a second and chuckle



Sounds like me every time I run out of money! :rofl:



sounds like me every time i run out of drugs!


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Invisiblesmack
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: passifloracaerulea] * 3
    #18923560 - 10/02/13 09:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I couldn't understand the part where he said cravings could kill you. I mean, that makes sense for benzos and alcohol, but not stimulants or opiates. Seemed like in that section he just blended together all the drugs.

Thoughts?


--------------------
14:31


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Invisiblevolcomstoner
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Re: why addicts relapse [Re: MushMaster] * 1
    #18923774 - 10/02/13 10:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MushMaster said:
If you are suffering from addiction and want to understand the neurobiology behind addiction/relapse this psychologist explains it pretty well.



Dr. Montes: Neurobiology of Addiction Part 1 The Treatment Center, on YouTube if link doesn't work



DR MONTES!!!
Lol he was my psychiatrist when I went to The Treatment Center
His groups were awesome I learned a lot :thumbup:


--------------------

HAIL SATAN

Vas donc jouer dans le traffic


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OfflineLed Zeppelin
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: smack]
    #18923780 - 10/02/13 10:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

smack said:
I couldn't understand the part where he said cravings could kill you. I mean, that makes sense for benzos and alcohol, but not stimulants or opiates. Seemed like in that section he just blended together all the drugs.

Thoughts?




treatment centers have this belief that all drugs are the same and will do the same things to you. a drug is a drug is a drug they say..its ridiculous


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: King Klick] * 1
    #18923794 - 10/02/13 10:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

King Klick said:
Quote:

smack said:
"The closest comparison we have to cravings is not eating for 2 to 3 days"



After 2 or 3 days I get used to being hungry and can get over it. Isn't that for most people?




The feeling of craving for food in your stomach goes away, but the symptoms of malnutrition don't. You become weak and edgy, even if you've given up on eating.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleShroomopotamus
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18923799 - 10/02/13 10:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Addicts relapse because they put their faith in 12 step programs... One of the worst things to happen in the history of man kind.


--------------------
*
Live by the mushroom, die by the mushroom
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This is a trap! A trap! You are all busted! Busted! You fools!
:twirlyface:

If a time comes where I fail to appear I've been abducted and I will miss you all
Please smile and pet puppies as often as possible
Be happy
Be nice
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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: Shroomopotamus]
    #18923806 - 10/02/13 10:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomopotamus said:
Addicts relapse because they put their faith in 12 step programs... One of the worst things to happen in the history of man kind.



There's no one-size-fits-all solution for drug addiction. I can see how 12-step programs might help some people, but in other cases they do more harm than good. I've personally never witnessed anybody benefiting from a twelve-step program (seen several addicts jump off the "wagon" more spectacularly than I ever could have predicted), but I wouldn't doubt that it's been known to happen.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Invisiblesmack
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: Shroomopotamus]
    #18923819 - 10/02/13 10:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomopotamus said:
Addicts relapse because they put their faith in 12 step programs... One of the worst things to happen in the history of man kind.



I've seen many succeed from 12 steps and NA/AA meetings.

I think it has plenty of values that help addicts avoid relapse, such as "1 day at a time" and teaching humility towards addiction.

Personally, I just stopped caring about meetings and relapsed anyways. 16 months of total sobriety, from even alcohol, thrown away because I felt like a drone.


--------------------
14:31


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Invisiblevolcomstoner
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: smack] * 3
    #18923839 - 10/02/13 10:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The whole "I'm powerless" nonsense is just justification for a relapse and have you become a slave to their cult-like program.

Now don't get me wrong, treatment did me a lot of good, getting me away from drugs, and taking care of my ass making sure I didn't die from my withdrawal. And the NA/AA 12 step shit works for some people, but it consumes their life so much it's just replacing an addiction.

Honestly, I don't consider the AA life to "living"


--------------------

HAIL SATAN

Vas donc jouer dans le traffic


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Invisiblemr sniffles
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: volcomstoner]
    #18923851 - 10/02/13 10:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

this makes me think twice for using drugs that specifically release dopamine to reinforce my memory. like seriously.


--------------------
:likeaboss:


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Invisiblesmack
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: volcomstoner]
    #18923858 - 10/02/13 10:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Well, the powerlessness thing is more so that you can have the humility to place your will beyond your own self-serving nature. As the video explains, relapse is a lack of conscious thought and willpower. If you spiritually place your decisions beyond yourself, you may become more aware of relapse behaviours.

I dont know really, just my own interpretation.


--------------------
14:31


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: MushMaster]
    #18923942 - 10/02/13 11:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I don't really buy in to that theory, though I haven't watched this particular video.  I would much rather be sick from opiates than starving.  Its comparable cause how bad withdrawl is, but withdrawl is dependance which is different from addiction.  I've really craved coke, but nowhere near as much as I crave food after not eating for 24 hours.  I think sex is closer to it than food it, I will comment later when I watch the video.  For now though, I would prefer to comment on something I know nothing about.


--------------------


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Invisibleunknown1123
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: MushMaster]
    #18924831 - 10/03/13 07:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MushMaster said:
Quote:

unknown1123 said:
lack of will power




Ur ignorance amazes



All it is, is lack of will power.

But really, your ignorance astonishes me.


--------------------


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InvisibleLegend
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: smack]
    #18924838 - 10/03/13 07:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

smack said:
"The closest comparison we have to cravings is not eating for 2 to 3 days"




what an accurate way of putting it.


--------------------
No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind.
[url=
]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]
Are you lost?


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InvisibleLegend
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: Shroomopotamus]
    #18924844 - 10/03/13 07:58 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomopotamus said:
Addicts relapse because they put their faith in 12 step programs... One of the worst things to happen in the history of man kind.




I've relapsed many times, (like this morning), however i do not see the correlation in 12 step programs, and addiction. if anything im sure they help, rather than encourage relapses. (i've never followed one)


--------------------
No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind.
[url=
]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]
Are you lost?


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Invisibleunknown1123
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: Legend] * 2
    #18924945 - 10/03/13 08:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Lol'ing at relapsing many times! It's called, you haven't quit yet. :lol:


--------------------


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InvisibleLegend
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: unknown1123]
    #18925003 - 10/03/13 08:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

damn right i haven't!

:hehehe:


--------------------
No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind.
[url=
]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]
Are you lost?


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OfflineMushMaster
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: volcomstoner]
    #18925838 - 10/03/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

volcomstoner said:
The whole "I'm powerless" nonsense is just justification for a relapse and have you become a slave to their cult-like program.

Now don't get me wrong, treatment did me a lot of good, getting me away from drugs, and taking care of my ass making sure I didn't die from my withdrawal. And the NA/AA 12 step shit works for some people, but it consumes their life so much it's just replacing an addiction.

Honestly, I don't consider the AA life to "living"




Put it this way you are powerful but if you consumed 20 exlax pills where would u be in a hour you are powerless over the chemicals ONCE they are consumed but you can fill the room with every drug known to man as long as you Dont cosume them you control the way u think and feel and act its not really powerless its more lack of power.


--------------------
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. -Bene Gesserit Litany against fear
Armin van Burren @ EDC Orlando 2012


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InvisibleEdibleStereos
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: MushMaster] * 1
    #18925926 - 10/03/13 01:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe if the drug trade was legalized and regulated, people could enjoy whatever drug they wanted without the risk of addiction because you wouldnt be able to buy enough of a drug for dependence to occur.

(there will still be a black market for addicts obviously, just much smaller)


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OfflineMushMaster
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: EdibleStereos] * 1
    #18926021 - 10/03/13 02:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EdibleStereos said:
Maybe if the drug trade was legalized and regulated, people could enjoy whatever drug they wanted without the risk of addiction because you wouldnt be able to buy enough of a drug for dependence to occur.

(there will still be a black market for addicts obviously, just much smaller)




There would be addiction (alcohol is legal but we still have alcoholism) but it should be a public health issue not a criminal issue


--------------------
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. -Bene Gesserit Litany against fear
Armin van Burren @ EDC Orlando 2012


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InvisibleEdibleStereos
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: MushMaster] * 1
    #18926098 - 10/03/13 02:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MushMaster said:
Quote:

EdibleStereos said:
Maybe if the drug trade was legalized and regulated, people could enjoy whatever drug they wanted without the risk of addiction because you wouldnt be able to buy enough of a drug for dependence to occur.

(there will still be a black market for addicts obviously, just much smaller)




There would be addiction (alcohol is legal but we still have alcoholism) but it should be a public health issue not a criminal issue





Nah, because how I envision the system is you get checked out by your doctor for health issues, then based on that it is decided which drugs are safe and how much you will be allowed to purchase in a month of a given system.

This is the system I can see the government, big pharma, and the people agreeing to.

Maybe each person who chooses to consume drugs is given a medical, then a card that is tied to what drugs we can buy, so we can track usage and notice if someone is developing an addictive pattern.

We could then track the health of the users and see what drugs they have consumed, so we can have an accurate portrayal of the harm done by drugs.

But of course people will find ways of being addicts. Addicts could just pay non using friends to use their card to buy for them.


Edited by EdibleStereos (10/03/13 02:19 PM)


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Offlinebroken
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: EdibleStereos]
    #18926202 - 10/03/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

you know the flaw to your own idea.
not sure if that's good or bad. :willynilly:


--------------------
:willynilly:


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InvisibleEdibleStereos
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Re: why addicts relapse (moved) [Re: broken]
    #18926236 - 10/03/13 02:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

closed veil said:
you know the flaw to your own idea.
not sure if that's good or bad. :willynilly:





No system created by humans will ever be perfect. I think though my idea is realistic. I tried to find my own shortcomings before others do.

I see the future as being overpopulated, and most people wont be able to travel for leisure or vacation due to limited resources.

As this starts to happen, I believe the government and big pharma will push drugs as a "drug vacation", the people will demand it, and the government will eventually be okay with it. Because they want the taxes, as well as they dont want their workforce breaking down from stress in this dystopian future I predict.

EDIT: I also think this may be happenning to some degree as well, however less deliberately. Except with anti-depressants. The USA already has 10% of its population placated with them.


Edited by EdibleStereos (10/03/13 02:55 PM)


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