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Invisiblejpack666
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Registered: 10/01/13
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increase size of myc once outside the jars
    #18918310 - 10/01/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

2nd post. post 1 had problems with terminology. i've learned a lot and now would like to ask the question again... differently... using what some of you helped me learn... and hoping to use the right words to convey a theoretical question about p cubensis cultivation correctly. here it goes:


lets say you had a fully colonized bulk substrate, imagine it's the size of about a big plastic bin but only 1" thick, and lets say it is fully ready to be put in a fruiting chamber...
could you, instead of making it fruit, crumble it all up in small pieces and use it as spawn? you would for instance mix it in some pasteurized substrate and let it all clump together and re-colonize?

could this be done to increase yield?


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: increase size of myc once outside the jars [Re: jpack666]
    #18918331 - 10/01/13 09:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

This'd is called super spawning and its hit or miss, more often miss.


--------------------
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All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: increase size of myc once outside the jars [Re: jpack666]
    #18918398 - 10/01/13 09:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jpack666 said:
could you, instead of making it fruit, crumble it all up in small pieces and use it as spawn? you would for instance mix it in some pasteurized substrate and let it all clump together and re-colonize?



Quote:

maddchef said:
This'd is called super spawning and its hit or miss, more often miss.



Quote:

jpack666 said:
could this be done to increase yield?



No.


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Invisiblejpack666
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Re: increase size of myc once outside the jars [Re: PussyFart]
    #18920920 - 10/02/13 12:45 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

can anyone explain why?

i was thinking... mix 1 pint of colonized substrate with 2 pints of horsepoo/verm mix after having that pasteurized. wait for it to get close to 100% colonization. then break the whole thing into small crumbles... you should have 3 pints worth of it... now pasteurize another 3 pints of horsepoo/verm and mix with the 3 pints of crumbled myc. re-innoc and wait for full colonization then put in fruiting conditions. resulting in going from a single colonized jar to 6 times it's volume of colonized substrate ready to fruit...


--------------------
"There's a negative and a positive to everything."  :mushroom2:

For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos


Edited by jpack666 (10/02/13 12:54 PM)


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: increase size of myc once outside the jars [Re: jpack666]
    #18920937 - 10/02/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jpack666 said:
can anyone explain why?

i was thinking... mix 1 pint of colonized substrate with 2 pints of horsepoo/verm mix after having that pasteurized. wait for it to get close to 100% colonization. then break the whole thing into small crumbles... you shoule have 3 pints worth of it... now pasteurize another 3 pints of horsepoo/verm and mix with the 3 pints of crumbled myc. re-innoc and wait for full colonization then put in fruiting conditions. resulting in going from a single colonized jar to 6 times it's volume of colonized substrate ready to fruit...



Why not just use grains as spawn and expand the mycellium on grains via grain to grain transfers like everyone else?

Spawning bulk to bulk is just asking for trouble.....you can use the search function and figure out why pretty quickly.

Knock up some grains, G2G them out, then spawn to a lot of bulk.


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: increase size of myc once outside the jars [Re: jpack666]
    #18920960 - 10/02/13 12:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

no. Because you are :

...spreading your nutrients pretty thin.

...taking a fruiting mode substrate and forcing it back to colonization mode. I think. Maybe. :shrug:


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Invisiblejpack666
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Re: increase size of myc once outside the jars [Re: PussyFart]
    #18921074 - 10/02/13 01:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

totally agree... but it's a first grow blunder save my friend is attempting. he doesnt have money for a PC so he used pf cakes w/brf to be on the safe side with contams... his blunder was getting half of his jars not spawning. He now wants to rectify this... and the way we see it, spawn/substrate ratio is dangerously risky if something like 1/5 or even 1/4... most teks will use 1/2.

he could instead crumble and spawn the myc pint to 5 pints of substrate...? is that more risky than bulk to bulk? in the search engine, should I use "bulk to bulk" as keyword to read about similar cases?

what should I search for for "smallest possible/safe spawn/substrate ratio?"


--------------------
"There's a negative and a positive to everything."  :mushroom2:

For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos


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Invisiblejpack666
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Re: increase size of myc once outside the jars [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18921104 - 10/02/13 01:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
no. Because you are :

...spreading your nutrients pretty thin.
:




but he'd be feeding it pure horse poo... isnt that a super nutrient?


--------------------
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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: increase size of myc once outside the jars [Re: jpack666]
    #18921963 - 10/02/13 03:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

In all honesty, I can't really argue with that statement.

However, if manure was nutritious enough to do what you're asking about, then it would stand to reason that manure could be used with a really low spawn ratio, which is basically what you'd be doing.

It can be used with a really low spawn ratio, but it's slow to colonize. The longer it takes to colonize, the higher the risk of contamination before the first flush.

Nobody is saying what you want to do can't be done. we are just saying it's not good practice for high chance of success.

Pasteurization will only help preserve your substrate for so long, it will eventually become more susceptible to contamination.

But, when in doubt, whip it out.


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A little civility goes a long way

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Edited by SpitballJedi (10/02/13 03:39 PM)


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: increase size of myc once outside the jars [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18922218 - 10/02/13 04:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Jedi wisdom my friend. Jedi wisdom.....


  I agree with the Hacker, again....  If you want to do that, use G2G. It is so much easier than past a bunch of poo in your kitchen. My wife has a veto on the H Poo. But I say, go for it, try it out and post some pics and let us know how it turns out.


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Invisiblejpack666
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Re: increase size of myc once outside the jars [Re: PussyFart]
    #18923284 - 10/02/13 08:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

totally agree... but it's a first grow blunder save my friend is attempting. he doesnt have money for a PC so he used pf cakes w/brf to be on the safe side with contams... his blunder was getting half of his jars not spawning. He now wants to rectify this... and the way we see it, spawn/substrate ratio is dangerously risky if something like 1/5 or even 1/4... most teks will use 1/2.

he could instead crumble and spawn the myc pint to 5 pints of substrate...? is that more risky than bulk to bulk? in the search engine, should I use "bulk to bulk" as keyword to read about similar cases?

what should I search for for "smallest possible/safe spawn/substrate ratio?"


--------------------
"There's a negative and a positive to everything."  :mushroom2:

For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: increase size of myc once outside the jars [Re: jpack666]
    #18923373 - 10/02/13 08:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Use "superspawning" as your search. And although I wouldn't really advocate it, when I first started this hobby and used pints, I used to get away with 4 pints to 2 bricks coir.

But colonization took 3 weeks or more if I recall. I got lucky.


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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Invisiblejpack666
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Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
Re: increase size of myc once outside the jars [Re: maddchef]
    #18923587 - 10/02/13 09:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

is see what you all mean... kind of like the more time it's colonizing, the higher the risk of contaminents, but is there a colonization ratio that makes it safer? for instance, if you use 66% spawn 33% substrate and then once colonized and crumbled do the same ratio again, is it safer that just doing one 1/3 ratio mix IYO?


--------------------
"There's a negative and a positive to everything."  :mushroom2:

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OfflineKizzle
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Re: increase size of myc once outside the jars [Re: jpack666]
    #18923679 - 10/02/13 10:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If you want to increase yield add more bulk substrate originally or in other words use a lower spawn ratio. The lower the spawn ratio though the slower it will colonize and the greater the chance for contamination. Letting it colonize in stages won't change that fact and generally you're going to have better results letting it all colonize at once.

Technically a BRF cake is a bulk so either way it could already be considered "super spawning" to spawn cakes but at least there's reason for it doing it that way since you couldn't get the BRF to colonize without the verm in jar.


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Invisiblejpack666
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Re: increase size of myc once outside the jars [Re: Kizzle]
    #19085898 - 11/04/13 03:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks kizzle. You make a good point. Well explained.

For those interested, I did try something along the lines of what you all suggested, just doing spawn to bulk once but with smaller ratio. I did it to the extreme as an experiment, like 1:100 brf cake crumbles to a hpoo mix. And I see it seems to have went well... Maybe the fact in was in vitro made it less prone to contams though. I can't say it's a tek that works though, I think it is having trouble reaching enough colonization to be able to pin, or the particular strain I'm using may not work well with the kind of bulk sub I used.

But still... I can confirm... 1:50 ratio in horse poo would probably be ready to fruit in 3 to 4 weeks...
So as you all said... There is no point in doing it in different steps...

Thanks for the help


--------------------
"There's a negative and a positive to everything."  :mushroom2:

For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos


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