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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
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Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #18940117 - 10/06/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You and fivepointer are certainly of the same ilk.  God is right no matter what he does. And you are the interpreter.

Well carry on but I can't see anyone of any personal integrity and decency  wanting any. That kind of "spirituality" would never attract me and you can bank on that.




youre saying i have no personal integrity or decency? none at all?

well, i dont mean to toot my own horn but i know for a fact that i possess at least  a slight amount of decency. and the reason i rbing that up is because i want you consider the fact that maybe you are the one who is wrong.

its always "i cant see this" or "i dont understand how that" as if your inability to understand something is proof it cant be true.

it would be like if i said i dont see how china can consume 50 tons of rice so quickly, therefore china must not actually be consuming all that rice.

this is basically a form of arrogance where you unconsciously believe that you are so smart and intelligent that only things you can understand are true. for example, the fact that you cannot see christians as having any personal integrity or decency means they must not have any rather than the other possibility, which is that you dont understand.


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OfflineYogi1
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Registered: 04/01/13
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Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Deviate]
    #18940121 - 10/06/13 12:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I can use moby dick to make large spiritual connections then, so why would I give that book any of the spiritual quality that I took from it.

At best you are dodging that you are ignorant of why your supposed gospel is making claims like slavery is okay and seafood is sinful...
The fact that you think homosexuality is something that with get you eternal punishment shows enough about your all around ignorance. 60 years ago you'd be pissed blacks were getting rights, mark those words.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Deviate]
    #18940143 - 10/06/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
You and fivepointer are certainly of the same ilk.  God is right no matter what he does. And you are the interpreter.

Well carry on but I can't see anyone of any personal integrity and decency  wanting any. That kind of "spirituality" would never attract me and you can bank on that.




youre saying i have no personal integrity or decency? none at all?

well, i dont mean to toot my own horn but i know for a fact that i possess at least  a slight amount of decency. and the reason i rbing that up is because i want you consider the fact that maybe you are the one who is wrong.

its always "i cant see this" or "i dont understand how that" as if your inability to understand something is proof it cant be true.

it would be like if i said i dont see how china can consume 50 tons of rice so quickly, therefore china must not actually be consuming all that rice.

this is basically a form of arrogance where you unconsciously believe that you are so smart and intelligent that only things you can understand are true. for example, the fact that you cannot see christians as having any personal integrity or decency means they must not have any rather than the other possibility, which is that you dont understand.





Not all christians believe the way you do.  Let me correct myself then and say "questionable personal integrity" rather than none.  You picked on a minor point btw.

Tell you what I admit (once again) there is a possibility I could be wrong. Yet I've never seen you do it. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #18940211 - 10/06/13 01:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
You and fivepointer are certainly of the same ilk.  God is right no matter what he does. And you are the interpreter.

Well carry on but I can't see anyone of any personal integrity and decency  wanting any. That kind of "spirituality" would never attract me and you can bank on that.




youre saying i have no personal integrity or decency? none at all?

well, i dont mean to toot my own horn but i know for a fact that i possess at least  a slight amount of decency. and the reason i rbing that up is because i want you consider the fact that maybe you are the one who is wrong.

its always "i cant see this" or "i dont understand how that" as if your inability to understand something is proof it cant be true.

it would be like if i said i dont see how china can consume 50 tons of rice so quickly, therefore china must not actually be consuming all that rice.

this is basically a form of arrogance where you unconsciously believe that you are so smart and intelligent that only things you can understand are true. for example, the fact that you cannot see christians as having any personal integrity or decency means they must not have any rather than the other possibility, which is that you dont understand.





Not all christians believe the way you do.  Let me correct myself then and say "questionable personal integrity" rather than none.  You picked on a minor point btw.

Tell you what I admit (once again) there is a possibility I could be wrong. Yet I've never seen you do it. :satansmoking:




I have given you nothing but the truth as it appears to me. what more do you want than that? In my experience, there is no happiness to be found in the world of sense objects. the worldy life consists of constant fluctuations, pleasure and pain, happiness, sadness, etc. Do you agree or do you think true, lasting happiness can be found in the world?

If not, then you must a) agree with me that true happiness lies within or b) deny that it is possible to be truly happy.

again, i only speak from my experience and in my experience it is possible to be truly happy and that happiness comes from a place deep within, not from the world of sense objects. NOT from getting your way or having something you want to have happen, happen in the world.

Is that position so difficult to understand? as far as admitting i am wrong, i dont know what you want me to admit i could be wrong about. like i said, i only speak from my experience. i guess its possible my experience could be some kind of abberation and that happiness actually does lie in the world. only, no one seems to say that, not even die hard materialists claim to be in possession of lasting peace and joy. thus, all evidence in addition to my experience, point to me being right. in so far as you acknowledge that, i am perfectly willing to admit i could be wrong.


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OfflineYogi1
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Registered: 04/01/13
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Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Deviate]
    #18940227 - 10/06/13 01:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

What experiences have you had outside a book from 2000 years ago?

You see god or experience any miracles?


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Yogi1]
    #18940274 - 10/06/13 01:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Yogi1 said:
I can use moby dick to make large spiritual connections then, so why would I give that book any of the spiritual quality that I took from it.




wow, terrible analogy.


Quote:


At best you are dodging that you are ignorant of why your supposed gospel is making claims like slavery is okay and seafood is sinful...
The fact that you think homosexuality is something that with get you eternal punishment shows enough about your all around ignorance. 60 years ago you'd be pissed blacks were getting rights, mark those words.




its only bad when someone else is ignorant i take it but not yourself?

people who base their arguments on homosexuality or peculiarities of the moasic law never have a clue what they are talking about i am afraid. for starters, ive told you already 2-3 times that i am not under the moasic law. all foods were declared clean. you have to read past the first pages if you want to even begin to understandd the Bible.

the fact of the matter is that the bible portrays an accurate depiction of the human psyche as experienced from the point of view of a spiritual seeker.

the fact that it contains a few statements about homnosexuality or selfish that you dont like, does not and will not change that. homosexuality for example, is hardly talked anywhere in the Bible in fact. according to markosthegnostic (though i am not sure i agree with him on this) the parts that do mention it are actually a mistranslation. either way, anyone who focuses on homosexuality to mnake their points, clearly has not understood the Bible. focusing solely on one or two lines out of a 1400 page book while completely ignoring the major themes of the book is no way to conduct scholarship.

in other words, you are simply trying to make the Bible look bad but you are not even doing a good job at that. ironically, i could probably do a far better job at discrediting the Bible than you are doing if i so desired.


Edited by Deviate (10/06/13 01:16 PM)


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OfflineYogi1
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Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Deviate]
    #18940289 - 10/06/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

so youre saying the bible is a special print of the word of god?


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Deviate]
    #18940291 - 10/06/13 01:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
You and fivepointer are certainly of the same ilk.  God is right no matter what he does. And you are the interpreter.

Well carry on but I can't see anyone of any personal integrity and decency  wanting any. That kind of "spirituality" would never attract me and you can bank on that.




youre saying i have no personal integrity or decency? none at all?

well, i dont mean to toot my own horn but i know for a fact that i possess at least  a slight amount of decency. and the reason i rbing that up is because i want you consider the fact that maybe you are the one who is wrong.

its always "i cant see this" or "i dont understand how that" as if your inability to understand something is proof it cant be true.

it would be like if i said i dont see how china can consume 50 tons of rice so quickly, therefore china must not actually be consuming all that rice.

this is basically a form of arrogance where you unconsciously believe that you are so smart and intelligent that only things you can understand are true. for example, the fact that you cannot see christians as having any personal integrity or decency means they must not have any rather than the other possibility, which is that you dont understand.





Not all christians believe the way you do.  Let me correct myself then and say "questionable personal integrity" rather than none.  You picked on a minor point btw.

Tell you what I admit (once again) there is a possibility I could be wrong. Yet I've never seen you do it. :satansmoking:




I have given you nothing but the truth as it appears to me. what more do you want than that? In my experience, there is no happiness to be found in the world of sense objects. the worldy life consists of constant fluctuations, pleasure and pain, happiness, sadness, etc. Do you agree or do you think true, lasting happiness can be found in the world?

If not, then you must a) agree with me that true happiness lies within or b) deny that it is possible to be truly happy.

again, i only speak from my experience and in my experience it is possible to be truly happy and that happiness comes from a place deep within, not from the world of sense objects. NOT from getting your way or having something you want to have happen, happen in the world.

Is that position so difficult to understand? as far as admitting i am wrong, i dont know what you want me to admit i could be wrong about. like i said, i only speak from my experience. i guess its possible my experience could be some kind of abberation and that happiness actually does lie in the world. only, no one seems to say that, not even die hard materialists claim to be in possession of lasting peace and joy. thus, all evidence in addition to my experience, point to me being right. in so far as you acknowledge that, i am perfectly willing to admit i could be wrong.




Well I speak from experience also but you want me to concede I could be wrong so fairs fair. And you're really being sneaky here imo. I do not know if happiness can only be found from within but you rather have been pushing a specific religious belief and defending a god that seems to do some really awful things not to mention claiming that god exists and what it's like.  That's really not the same thing imo as comparing happiness in the world to happiness within.  But I think you know that very well.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #18941612 - 10/06/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:



Well I speak from experience also but you want me to concede I could be wrong so fairs fair. And you're really being sneaky here imo. I do not know if happiness can only be found from within but you rather have been pushing a specific religious belief and defending a god that seems to do some really awful things not to mention claiming that god exists and what it's like.  That's really not the same thing imo as comparing happiness in the world to happiness within.  But I think you know that very well.




It's the exact same thing from my point of view. All my posts are always about the exact same thing, there is one truth but infinite ways of expressing it. Christianity happens to be one of my favorite ways but it is ridiculous to think that I am talking about something different when i talk about Christianity.

The difference between us is that I know where the source of happiness lies and thus I will always be true to that place and defend the tradional means of getting there (because they work just as well as any other means).

You must stop being distracted by the wandering mind and instead let your awareness descend into your heart. There, where time and eternity meet, you will find peace beyond all thought and mental perturbation.

That is the whole of the truth. It is all that Christianity is trying to teach you, along with other religions and all the saints and sages and wise men and mystics throughout the ages.

But you have freedom, so its entirely up to you whether to seek the heart. As long as you remain in the wandering mind, your world will consist of the wandering mind and you will never be able to understand spiritual truth, which is by definition, only understood by the heart.

That is all I have ever been saying. Don't agree or are too lazy to seek the heart? Fine. But stop imagining that I am saying different things because my message never changes and will never change.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Deviate]
    #18941715 - 10/06/13 06:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It is all that Christianity is trying to teach you,


In another thread you just spent time defending your god killing other humans.  It's all right cause it wasn't you but I'll bet they weren't into it.  Christianity is trying to teach all sorts of things. Like hey, you can't tell most christians that you found god on drugs why again?  Aren't they informed by the holy spirit and they don't use their own understanding to know what god wants. They obviously don't think you are following gods teaching and they are likely the vast majority of christians and supposedly god is informing them. 

Or let me put it this way. If a psychopath were to tell me he could make me like him and remove all guilt and shame from my life (boy would I like that)  I wouldn't take him up on the offer because it goes against my personal ethics on how a human should behave.  There is so much about christianity that is not "christian" imo that I'd be a bad person to embrace it.  Laziness has nothing to do with it. It's ethics and integrity/honesty.

Considering you claim to believe there are many paths to god why would you choose one that has so many contradictions and defend acts by a god that are obviously harmful/deadly to humans he doesn't like and yet claims it's wrong for humans to act in ways he does?
Something here is amazingly not right in that position.

My mind is not distracted on this issue. I'm completely aware of the choice I'm making and why I'm making it.

And I do seek the heart so quit with the your way or the highway bs.  In fact I think I'm the one here seeking the heart.

Your message may never change but imo it's not a healthy one or a rational one.  It encourages people to follow those with power rather than righteousness.  That's why those prayers are always begging for mercy.  If someone loves me I don't have to beg for mercy.  I know this from experience.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineYogi1
Squatchin

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #18941736 - 10/06/13 06:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

"I know most would classify me as a serial killer by definition but its okay because they were my children" -god-

:curbyourenthusiasm:


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #18942155 - 10/06/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
It is all that Christianity is trying to teach you,


In another thread you just spent time defending your god killing other humans.  It's all right cause it wasn't you but I'll bet they weren't into it.  Christianity is trying to teach all sorts of things. Like hey, you can't tell most christians that you found god on drugs why again?  Aren't they informed by the holy spirit and they don't use their own understanding to know what god wants. They obviously don't think you are following gods teaching and they are likely the vast majority of christians and supposedly god is informing them. 

Or let me put it this way. If a psychopath were to tell me he could make me like him and remove all guilt and shame from my life (boy would I like that)  I wouldn't take him up on the offer because it goes against my personal ethics on how a human should behave.  There is so much about christianity that is not "christian" imo that I'd be a bad person to embrace it.  Laziness has nothing to do with it. It's ethics and integrity/honesty.

Considering you claim to believe there are many paths to god why would you choose one that has so many contradictions and defend acts by a god that are obviously harmful/deadly to humans he doesn't like and yet claims it's wrong for humans to act in ways he does?
Something here is amazingly not right in that position.

My mind is not distracted on this issue. I'm completely aware of the choice I'm making and why I'm making it.

And I do seek the heart so quit with the your way or the highway bs.  In fact I think I'm the one here seeking the heart.

Your message may never change but imo it's not a healthy one or a rational one.  It encourages people to follow those with power rather than righteousness.  That's why those prayers are always begging for mercy.  If someone loves me I don't have to beg for mercy.  I know this from experience.




Hey if you are interested in righteousness than we are on the same page and I would like to call a truce. that is exactly the teaching of the Bible/Jesus Christ. Pursue righteousness rather than following human authority.

If you're going to let a few difficult old testament passages which reflected more mankind's understanding of God at the time, than Gods true nature, ruin Christianity for you, thats your decision. But to me, Christianity is divinely beautiful. The Bible was given to us by God, inspired by the Holy Spirit (which is the spirit of righteousness and truth) and it is divinely beautiful, to me. If you find the beauty that moves your soul somewhere else, that's perfectly ok. All I desire, is for people to recognize that Christianity actually does work for some people. Some people come to know God and themselves through the study and practice of the Christian faith. Its certainly not the only way to obtain self knowledge, but it is by far the most powerful and effective way I have found in all my searching. The practice of faith, prayer and unselfish love, transform the heart.

The things which bother you about Christianity just dont bother me. I dont see it as being full of contradictions. What seem like contradictions to the untrained eye, are actually intentional. For example, God in the old testament appears different from God in the new testament. Some people look at this as a contradiction. To me it shows the evolution of mankind's understanding of God. Pretty much all the so called contradictions in Christianity are something like that. When you have the holy spirit, it helps you to interpret scripture and you will understand these things that appear contradictory to the intellect.

You say I wouldnt like it if God called me but in reality, we are all going to die. If I am killed by say the measles rather than directly by the hand of God, what is the difference? God is still the one who is ultimately in control. He cant hind behind the measles and he pretend he didnt call me home. So everyone who dies is killed by God in a sense and there is a lesson to learn from death, which is why God allows it. He did not create death, it was brought about by the fall of man. God's desire is for us to have eternal life with Him in heaven.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Deviate]
    #18942268 - 10/06/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I was never at war with you so don't need a truce.  I already know what you believe so you don't have to keep repeating it.  I've been hearing it since I was a tiny kid growing up in a deeply religious and fully dysfunctional Christian family.  I went to church and attended a Bible College and studied there for a short time.  I know that contradictions don't bother christians. You're not telling me anything I haven't heard from hundreds of other christians so please give it a rest and tell me something I don't know.

I don't accept contradictions and irrational and illogical beliefs as truth. Call me crazy. :shrug:

And anyone with a minute can google "contradictions in the bible" and find it's not just a few.  There's a shitload of em.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #18942520 - 10/06/13 09:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If you are talking about contradictions like Luke and John giving slightly differing accounts of the crucifixtion, I hardly think that invalidates the TEACHINGS of Jesus.

If you truly value righteousness, how can you not love the Bible? The whole book is the story of good vs evil, where the righteous are rewarded and the wicked are brought to ruin.

That's the message of the Bible. There are no contradictions in that message. You only find contradictions if you start to examine the minute details and pit them against each other, which is totally misunderstanding the point of the text.

So while you certainly find a lot of apparent contradictons on google, none of them are of any importance. Its not as though the Bible says that we should be righteous on page and then the next page tells us to be wicked. No, on the contrary through 1400 pages and many different books by different authors written at diffferent times, the overall theme and message is very consistent.


Edited by Deviate (10/06/13 09:57 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Deviate]
    #18942667 - 10/06/13 10:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe you better look harder.  And contradictions are hardly my only issue with the bible. :lol:  God acts the prick too often for my liking.

As I said earlier, why base your faith in such a religion when you have so much more and imo healthier ones to choose from?

Make up your own in fact and make it perfect and non contradictory. But face it, christianity does not have a good track record as far as it's practitioners go. Especially the Catholics duh.  So a lot of people have good reasons for not liking it.  You'll have to deal with that if you want to keep preaching here.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #18942694 - 10/06/13 10:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

what is a healthier religion?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Posting God Letters Here: *DELETED* [Re: Deviate]
    #18942837 - 10/06/13 11:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'd say Buddhism is one.  Maybe the Great Spirit of the American indian for another.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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