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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: leon trout]
    #18916701 - 10/01/13 03:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

leon trout said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Government can not and should not try to guarantee results.




by this rationale, then, you would be okay with outright banning corporate lobbying of the gov't?.. because that is what lobbying boils down to, a non-governmental agency trying to convince the gov't to help them guarantee results...




I think lobbying fucks us in many instances. However, there's that free speech thing. And it's a good thing.

So while I wish lobbyists would go away, I am not in favor of banning them.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblemillzy
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Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
Re: R U OK with this? [Re: deadwk]
    #18916720 - 10/01/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

thedeadwalkk said:
Doesn't help that herds of mindless Americans, and people worldwide flock to Walmart to buy their goods.

I find it funny that people flock to walmart, and then complain that they make too much money. They can't make money if you don't go to them to buy their goods, THINK PEOPLE!




here's the thing though; i like walmart. i like all of the goods and services that the corporate world provides. but i don't think liking their goods gives walmart, or any corporation, carte blanche to treat their employees like shit or dictate public policy that is, ultimately, only beneficial to them and deeply harmful to the rest of the world. it's not mindless to shop at walmart. it's mindless to turn a blind eye to what they do in the political sphere.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: millzy]
    #18916729 - 10/01/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
here's the thing though; i like walmart. i like all of the goods and services that the corporate world provides. but i don't think liking their goods gives walmart, or any corporation, carte blanche to treat their employees like shit or dictate public policy that is, ultimately, only beneficial to them and deeply harmful to the rest of the world. it's not mindless to shop at walmart. it's mindless to turn a blind eye to what they do in the political sphere.



How do you figure that it's only beneficial to them?  YOU are benefiting from it as well by enjoying the lower prices.

It's hypocritical as fuck to take advantage of the result of Walmart's policies and condemn those very same policies that you take advantage of.


--------------------
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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: fapjack] * 2
    #18916735 - 10/01/13 03:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fapjack said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Every American has the opportunity. Few take advantage of it.

Government can not and should not try to guarantee results.




What does this even mean?  I hear a lot of people say it, I still think its just some BS talking point though.




It's a very short, very clear group of sentences.

Still... I'll translate.


Every American has the opportunity to excel/make something of themselves/prosper.

Most either have no wish to or are too lazy. They are content with their lot and have no wish to do what is needed to get ahead.

It is not the place of government to take from those who do... to give to those who do not.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineleon trout
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #18916759 - 10/01/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Banning lobbying is repugnant to a free society.




i said "corporate" lobbying... a citizen, who has a vote, can lobby all they want... a corporation is not a citizen... why the fuck should GM get to pay millions to influence a politician... if it is important enough of an issue to the sacred shareholders, well, they each have a vote & a congressman or 2 they can voice their opinions to...


--------------------
I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in poverty. Actually, I’m more intrigued by the 23 per cent who are apparently doing quite well for themselves.” 
  ~ St. Jerome of Marin
:gd_icon:the bus come by & i got on, that's when it all began:gd_icon:



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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Enlil]
    #18916762 - 10/01/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Most millionaires are businessmen. The vaste majority of people don't have interest in business just like a vast majority don't have interest in philosophy.



It's all priorities, dude.  If your priority is to be "interest[ed]", then don't expect financial success.  If your priority is financial success, then don't expect to be interested.

I don't care if you're a busboy or a CEO of Rand.  If you act like you don't give a shit, you'll fail.  If you invest yourself in the job, you've got a chance to succeed.



so make robots, not humans.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: leon trout]
    #18916771 - 10/01/13 03:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

A corporation is nothing more than a group of citizens.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: qman]
    #18916776 - 10/01/13 03:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Uzziel said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

Uzziel said:
Are any of your posts here not about fucking people over who deserve a bit more than they are paid and encouraging people to get fucked over?





Nobody deserves more than you are paid.  You are worth exactly what someone is willing to pay you.  If you feel you aren't getting paid enough, go negotiate a higher wage with the competition.




Nobody huh? What happens when the competition is driven off by the monopoly?

I personally think humanity is worth more than what "someone else" determines... but hey, you can think whatever cynical thought you want.




Monopolies are created by government legislation.  Malicious Monopolies don't happen in a free market.


The universe is a cold and harsh place, I wish everyone could live in rainbow candy land too but the laws of nature dictate that these harsh realities are unavoidable.

the world is a terrible, harsh and unforgiving place kid, you'd best adapt or die.
Quote:

qman said:
Capitalism is good when MANY have access to capital, but today that has changed for the worst, guess who mainly has access to capital, the very wealthy.

Under these conditions, capitalism turns into a ugly situation that is very difficult to turn around.

I'm not against capitalism, but it has changed in the past 25 years, and mainly the past 10 years, if anyone was intellectually honest about the situation, they would admit its recent failures.





problem is we haven't had capitalism in a century.  All the big government and central bank meddling in the economy is not capitalism and it is the readond these corps have gotten undeservingly ritch.  Its because they have inside deals with the government.  That is not cspitalism its fascism.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18916786 - 10/01/13 03:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Protip:  A person's pay is called "compensation" for a reason.  It compensates them for the time spent doing something they'd rather NOT be doing.  Anyone who expects to be paid well for doing something they'd do for free is unrealistic.  Some people find that, but the vast majority do not.


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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Enlil]
    #18916793 - 10/01/13 03:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
There are other companies in the world. The reward need not come from your current company




which proves my point. upward mobility either exists or it doesn't in companies.

Quote:

Not so much. Higher minimum wages hurt the middle class more than anyone because they make everything more expensive.




Quote:

It's hypocritical as fuck to take advantage of the result of Walmart's policies and condemn those very same policies that you take advantage of.




well, like i said before, i don't think companies with enormous profit margins like walmart would necessarily have to pass their costs down to consumers if they raised their workers' wages. and if you're really saying that walmart's public policies solely exist for the benefit of the shopper, troll harder.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: millzy]
    #18916835 - 10/01/13 03:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
which proves my point. upward mobility either exists or it doesn't in companies.




It doesn't have to...that's my point.  If you do your job like you want it done right and with an aim to help the business, you will have an opportunity to move up...whether in that company or another.

My wife is a secretary who makes $105,000.  She wasn't always, though.  She used to be a secretary who made $35,000...then 45,000, etc...

The difference between her and most secretaries?  She invests herself into her job.  She looks for ways to make systems run better....while other secretaries are watching the clock and counting down until they go home.

She never got promoted in any job...she just moved on to better ones.  The reason she could do that is because she's an excellent employee.  While other people stagnate in their jobs, she's continued to make more money and get more respect....That's by design.

People who hate their jobs have two choices:  Perform above and beyond so they can get out of their job, or do a shitty job and lock themselves into it forever.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Enlil]
    #18916857 - 10/01/13 03:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Exactly.

I've been in the workforce (as either an employee or an employer) for 40 years.

Those that think they can bitch and this will somehow get them more money... generally fail at it.

Those that go the extra mile... generally succeed.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleShins
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Enlil]
    #18916858 - 10/01/13 03:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Walmarts profits show that they are serving the communities' needs.  They get a lot of customers because they provide goods and services to the people at a value they favor.

In a free market profit is a sign you a helping your community rsise its standard of living.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Shins]
    #18916874 - 10/01/13 03:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Right, it isn't because they drive out competition or anything because no one can compete with their sweatshop prices :rolleyes:. 80% of their merchandise is from China... what does that say about the American economy? :nonono:

Small business can't even compete with Walmart, it doesn't say shit about serving the community. They're just satisfying people willing to forgo humanity to appease themselves so they can get "low low prices!"

Humans truly are despicable :facepalm:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Uzziel]
    #18916882 - 10/01/13 03:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Uzziel said:
Humans truly are despicable :facepalm:



Get used to it, kid.


--------------------
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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #18916906 - 10/01/13 03:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, no. how bout no one gets used to it, and tells people like you to ... well, i'm not gonna get banned.

but yeah...

:archiebunker:

NO.

i can't believe you choose to meander around your struggling vestiges.


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Enlil]
    #18916922 - 10/01/13 03:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Uzziel said:
Humans truly are despicable :facepalm:



Get used to it, kid.




No. Why would I do that? That would make me just as bad as you. Tsk tsk. I'd rather be alive than be a dead sheep following the rest because they are "use to it"


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InvisibleShins
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Enlil]
    #18916928 - 10/01/13 03:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Low priced high value goofs serve the community.  The reason wslmart profits so much is bevause the community obviously demands low cost high value goods because they improve their standard of living.

If A company cannot compete with walmart it Is becsuse they do a poorer job at filfilling the demands of the community and provide a poorer improvement in standard of living for the cost.


about sweatshops: sweatshop workers freely enter into employment contrscts.  They WANT to work in sweatshops because the alternative is worse.  Sweatshop jobs actually improve standard of living for people in impovershed countries and one of the best things you can fo to help poor people in other countries is to buy sweatshop products.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Uzziel]
    #18916932 - 10/01/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You can accept reality as it is and make the best of it, or you can be miserable in your futile attempt to make it something that it'll never be.  The choice is yours.

Godspeed Don Quixote.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Shins]
    #18916936 - 10/01/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

alternatives, i thought they were bad. oh yeah, i forgot, that doesn't apply to this. this is different.

:meltdown:when there are alternatives for being more productive, it's not worth putting the brakes on some shitty company because they got here first.



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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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