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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Uzziel] * 1
    #18916073 - 10/01/13 12:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Uzziel said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Uzziel said:
Its hard to make a profit when there is a near monopoly on it with only a few big competitors. I also don't have the fund to do so, or I would.




I see. So you'd force others to do what you won't do.

How magnanimous of you.


Quote:

Small groceries have been forced out of business all across the world for this exact reason.




And because payroll costs are too high. Many businesses struggle to stay open. You'd force them to close?

Seems like a job that pays something is better than no job at all.





Nope, never said that at all. It is exactly why I would never open a grocery store because Walmart has a huge monopoly on it and isn't being regulated like it should be. You just proved my point, really. Walmart is bad for other business's who would offer to pay workers better.




So don't open a grocery store or a Walmart clone. Open something else.

Give your money away, not the money of Walmart stockholders.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Enlil]
    #18916079 - 10/01/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
paying employees a salary? that's taking money out of the pockets of innocent shareholders--they are owed maximized returns on their investment!!! :luvdemshrooms:



False dichotomy.  The alternative to paying employees a salary is to not have employees.  This is an inherent limit to company growth, and therefore profit.  One can only find so many volunteers.

You seem to be arguing that a free market is flawed, but you're using examples that are anything but a free market.  A free market includes workers who are free to charge as much or as little as they want for their services.



do you forget that slavery existed until government regulation put it to an end?

the only reason 'not have employees' is the current alternative to 'pay employees' is because 'enslaved workers' no longer is


"without gov't intervention, the company holding closest to this ideal would be the one with an enslaved workforce, zero environmental regulations, zero health and safety regulations.."
Do you deny that a company such as this would be able to provide the highest return on investment to shareholders?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18916082 - 10/01/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What does a union have to do with anything I've said?  Any worker can always negotiate pay with a potential employer.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #18916083 - 10/01/13 12:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

and i'm not arguing against a free market, so much as i am arguing against capitalism


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #18916089 - 10/01/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Do you deny that a company such as this would be able to provide the highest return on investment to shareholders?



Yes.

You seem to not understand the concept of "free market."  A market with slaves is not a free market.


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OnlineThe Ecstatic
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Enlil]
    #18916093 - 10/01/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
What does a union have to do with anything I've said?  Any worker can always negotiate pay with a potential employer.




Yep. And the employer can look at the unemployment rate and tell the guy to fuck right off if his intended rate is a cent higher than the rest of the 35 million people line outside.


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Offlineleon trout
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18916115 - 10/01/13 01:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Give your money away, not the money of Walmart stockholders.




i've seen you say that wal-mart workers aren't worth more pay because they don't possess any skills, that they are basically of little worth... the stock-holders... well, the big ones, the Walton family, they inherited their shares... so, having a parent die, that elevates your worth as a human being to where income is automatically justified?.. the rest of the stockholders, fuck man, they told a broker to buy them some paper... this is work, that deserves the highest of pay?..

how is it that simply having a dead parent, or a stock-broker, makes a person more valuable & important than someone who actually performs labor to feed his family?..

fuck stockholders...


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I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in poverty. Actually, I’m more intrigued by the 23 per cent who are apparently doing quite well for themselves.” 
  ~ St. Jerome of Marin
:gd_icon:the bus come by & i got on, that's when it all began:gd_icon:



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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #18916117 - 10/01/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Sure, but if an employee brings an extra $100,000 in profit to a company, the company will be willing to pay more for that employee.  It's all about what the employee is worth.

If the employee wants to put his hours in and do the minimum expected, he should be ready to take less pay for that.

Why should they pay more than they have to?  Customers of Walmart choose Walmart because they can pay less...Why would you expect the company to work any differently?


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: vinsue]
    #18916132 - 10/01/13 01:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

This thread has made my day. :awesomenod:
All jobs can be replaced by computers including creative types.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-news/9369890/London-Symphony-Orchestra-to-play-piece-created-by-computer-program-Iamus.html


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It's all for the :lol:s


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #18916142 - 10/01/13 01:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Do you deny that a company such as this would be able to provide the highest return on investment to shareholders?



Yes

You seem to not understand the concept of "free market."  A market with slaves is not a free market.



Free market in the sense that every individual participates freely, yes, slavery violates the basic property right of an individual over their body--and cannot exist within a truly free market.

In the more practical sense, of a market devoid of any governing regulation, slavery is a fairly common practice in 'free markets'.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #18916160 - 10/01/13 01:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
In the more practical sense, of a market devoid of any governing regulation, slavery is a fairly common practice in 'free markets'.



How would you know?  Slavery is illegal in every country on the planet...so where are these "market[s] devoid of any governing regulation"?


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OnlineThe Ecstatic
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Enlil]
    #18916170 - 10/01/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
In the more practical sense, of a market devoid of any governing regulation, slavery is a fairly common practice in 'free markets'.



How would you know?  Slavery is illegal in every country on the planet...so where are these "market[s] devoid of any governing regulation"?




slavery being illegal is a governing regulation.

regardless, there are more slaves today than at any point in human history.


--------------------


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OnlineThe Ecstatic
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #18916175 - 10/01/13 01:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

when a business makes money off illegal activities,  with a penalty miniscule in comparison,  wheres the incentive to follow the law?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: leon trout]
    #18916176 - 10/01/13 01:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

leon trout said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Give your money away, not the money of Walmart stockholders.




i've seen you say that wal-mart workers aren't worth more pay because they don't possess any skills,




Correct. They are fairly paid for the job they were hired to do.


Quote:

that they are basically of little worth...




Incorrect. That they are paid what the company values their labor at.


Quote:

the stock-holders... well, the big ones, the Walton family, they inherited their shares...




So what? It was their families money. What they choose to do with it is up to them.


Quote:

so, having a parent die, that elevates your worth as a human being to where income is automatically justified?..




WTF? I don't recall saying that. I don't equate a persons worth as a human to what they make. I do however equate what they make to their worth as an employee.


Quote:

the rest of the stockholders, fuck man, they told a broker to buy them some paper... this is work, that deserves the highest of pay?..




Not all stockholders work. Are they not deserving of their dividends? They deserve what they can earn legally. Others do not deserve anything other than what they earn or what people give them.


Quote:

how is it that simply having a dead parent, or a stock-broker, makes a person more valuable & important than someone who actually performs labor to feed his family?..




It doesn't make them personally more important or valuable. It does however make them richer.


Quote:

fuck stockholders...




All of them or just the good looking ones?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #18916178 - 10/01/13 01:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Soon the walmart employee salary thing won't be an issue. They'll replace cashiers with self checkout machines. That'll cut like 80% of their workforce.

Which is fucked in a way cause 72% of Walmart's cashiers are women


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Edited by Patlal (10/01/13 01:14 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #18916181 - 10/01/13 01:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
slavery being illegal is a governing regulation.



My point exactly.
Quote:


regardless, there are more slaves today than at any point in human history.



There are more people today than at any point in human history...I'd expect there to be more slaves...and more midgets...


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: vinsue]
    #18916211 - 10/01/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

A lot of the people in this thread sure have a lot of free time on their hands to have pointless fucking arguments instead of working, I think a lot of the people in this thread should be fired or get back to studying... Lazy....


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: Patlal]
    #18916222 - 10/01/13 01:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Soon the walmart employee salary thing won't be an issue. They'll replace cashiers with self checkout machines. That'll cut like 80% of their workforce.




I refuse to use those things, fuck if I'm going to do that work for free when an employee could be doing it for me.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: psi] * 1
    #18916225 - 10/01/13 01:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Soon the walmart employee salary thing won't be an issue. They'll replace cashiers with self checkout machines. That'll cut like 80% of their workforce.




I refuse to use those things, fuck if I'm going to do that work for free when an employee could be doing it for me.




True.

I did my part as a customer to pick the things I want. I the store refuses to do its part in the transaction, I'm walking out with all the stuff I have without paying


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: R U OK with this? [Re: psi]
    #18916227 - 10/01/13 01:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I prefer them.  They're way faster than going to a checker, plus they don't spend 10 minutes chatting up the person in front of you.

I'll be glad the day that self-checkout completely replaces humans.
Quote:

Patlal said:
I did my part as a customer to pick the things I want. I the store refuses to do its part in the transaction, I'm walking out with all the stuff I have without paying



Then the cops can do their part and haul you to jail...it's a win/win/win.


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