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Invisibleprovo
Peace Pilgrim

Registered: 10/18/09
Posts: 189
Monotub troubleshooting *DELETED*
    #18915462 - 10/01/13 10:29 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by provo

Reason for deletion: Change


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: provo]
    #18915500 - 10/01/13 10:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

More FAE and/or over-saturated substrate.

Describe your FC and substrate recipe.

When we do things imperfect, sometimes we still get great results. Only when we run in to problems do we realize we can make improvements to get constant great results.


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Invisibleprovo
Peace Pilgrim

Registered: 10/18/09
Posts: 189
Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: provo]
    #18915532 - 10/01/13 10:45 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for the quick response!

I forgot to mention: Always kept between 21 and 24 celsius.

I am always looking to improve and I have absolutely no fear of starting anew. Starting over is actually quite a good description of my life in a nutshell... anyways let's stay on topic.

Here's the info:
Substrate recipe:
-650gr brick of coco coir
-2qts medium vermiculite
-4.5qts H2O
-1/4cup gypsum dissolved in water
-9qts rye grain spawn

Monotub specs:
-66qt
-6x1.5inch holes
-Polyfill in holes for fruiting (loose on top tight on bottom)

I dedicate a lot of importance to the opinions I receive in this community. Thanks to anyone to takes the time to help out.


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: provo]
    #18915641 - 10/01/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

There is a lot of fuzz and some fat bottoms. Signs of low FAE and saturated sub

I wished there was something wrong with your data, but there's not.

Did you happen to dunk your grains before spawning? I only ask because if you did, you may not have drained them well. I'm grasping at straws here.

If your fan is pointing directly at your tub, then it may be disrupting the natural flow. Grasping again.

Can you think of anything you did different this time? anything at all?


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Invisibleprovo
Peace Pilgrim

Registered: 10/18/09
Posts: 189
Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: provo]
    #18916002 - 10/01/13 12:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I like your analysis!

I would really love to figure out what I may have done to this poor tub...

The spawn used in this tub was not soaked. I do that sometimes, but this one was definitely not one of those.

Fan is not pointing directly at the tub. It is in the same location in relation to the tub it always has been for previous grows. It is an oscillating fan on top of that.

I honestly did nothing I can think of differently. This monoculture has given me canopy flushes in the exact same physical location, the same temperature, the same substrate recipe and the same lighting parameters... :awkwardconfusion:

Is contamination not easily distinguishable a realistic possibility at this point?

Seeing as this may simply be something I will never figure out, the next thing that comes to mind is:
When would be the recommended time to harvest these aborts and move on to the second flush?

EDIT: Should I consider completely removing the polyfill from the top holes in order to augment the FAE rate? I have seen people use this succesfully in a few threads...?:justdontknow:


Edited by provo (10/01/13 01:07 PM)


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Invisibleprovo
Peace Pilgrim

Registered: 10/18/09
Posts: 189
Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: provo]
    #18920150 - 10/02/13 09:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:bump:

I want to know what any of you would do in this situation and more importantly why?

Anything... Thanks.


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: provo]
    #18920169 - 10/02/13 09:44 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Honestly with the fruits opening so early it looks like funky or deteriorating genetics. What generation was your spawn? How old, etc.


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Invisibleprovo
Peace Pilgrim

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Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: maddchef]
    #18920187 - 10/02/13 09:53 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Spawn was allowed to consolidate for about 4 days then spawned to bulk.

Genetics are from a liquid culture and the same batch of liquid culture has produced beautiful flushes many times... Pretty confident about the genetics. This specific monoculture has never let me down until this one time.

I harvested the abortion fiesta after all and soaked overnight, but i am curious to hear what others might have done.

Anyone?:justdontknow::thumbup::heartpump:


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OfflineDark76


Registered: 07/14/13
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Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: provo]
    #18920225 - 10/02/13 10:04 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I could be wrong (I'm still learning), but I think he was asking how many generations this liquid culture had produced? I've read that in G2G, the spawn will start to break down after 6 or so generations.


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Invisibleprovo
Peace Pilgrim

Registered: 10/18/09
Posts: 189
Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: Dark76]
    #18920255 - 10/02/13 10:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You are right. I understood his question the same way as you did but my answer was not clear.

Here is the exact history of this monoculture:
Spore to agar, agar to agar (x2), agar to lc, lc to rye spawn, rye spawn to bulk.

Liquid culture has all been taken from the same jar and so is technically first generation not counting the agar work/isolation.

Again, other tubs have produced magnificent flushes from the exact same jar of liquid culture.


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OfflineMicroppose
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Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: provo]
    #18920368 - 10/02/13 10:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You're very well mannered, Provo.
I honestly see nothing wrong with your procedure. I've had grows like this where I would use genetics of the same origin and age but they hault under complications that seem to come out of nowhere. The only thing you can do is give it more of what it loves and hope it corrects itself in the second flush, like my 'once in a great while' anomalies usually do. I would either up my misting and fanning game on top of the air it receives from your oscillating fan, or I would open a hole and ensure it stays plenty misted. You're not alone in this, it happens to me about once every 25-30 tubs or so and I still haven't figured out why. GL


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Invisibleprovo
Peace Pilgrim

Registered: 10/18/09
Posts: 189
Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: provo]
    #18920447 - 10/02/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Awesome.

:takingnotes:

And thank you!:heart:


Edited by provo (10/02/13 10:57 AM)


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: provo]
    #18920854 - 10/02/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If by "consolidate" you mean just give a few days to make sure it's 100% colonized, then that may be ok. But you shouldn't let grain spawn consolidate the same way you do with BRF cakes.

If you are shaking your jars at about 20% or so, and you get a good even mix, then the middle of the grains should be as colonized as well as the outside edges.

A hypothesis:

I can't say for sure if this is the problem, but it seems that letting your grains consolidate may have an affect on fruiting.

Once your mycelium has colonized the grain and consolidated, it may be switching over in to fruiting mode. Then, when you mix it with substrate, it has to switch back to colonization mode.

You may have gotten away with this process in the past, but it may not be best practice.

Someone with more in-depth knowledge about these cycles may be able to confirm or shoot down my hypothesis.


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Invisibleprovo
Peace Pilgrim

Registered: 10/18/09
Posts: 189
Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18921722 - 10/02/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

SpitballJedi, you raise a good point and I am glad you did. I am in fact aware that it is bad practice to let spawn consolidate.
In reality, I misused the word consolidate in my previous post... I should have used the word colonize.

I always, without exception, spawn my grain to bulk when I feel it has attained 100% colonization. I do not wait for anything after 100%. In most situations I spawn to bulk around 95% colonization (this time was 100% though...)
My rye jars take an average of 4 days to 100% :yesnod:, so they are definitely not consolidating for 4 days! :grin:

I do understand that in other circumstances it is beneficial, such as pf tek BRF cakes, for instance

I love doing analysis like this though. Keep asking questions if you can think of anything, I would love to find what it is I am likely to be overlooking in my procedure!

Thanks. :popcorn:


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Offlinerumfor69
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Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: provo]
    #18923409 - 10/02/13 09:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I used to use about the same recipe and noticed i got a high

contamination rate. Getting only a 55% success rate. So i started to use

less coir now i'll use 10 jars of spawn filled to the 600ml line

and only 6qts of pasteurized coir which if you do some conversion is about a

50/50 mix. Granted this doesn't sound like going to bulk but it brought

me up to a 80% success rate immediately. I used a SAB for g2g so my theory

more myce means faster colonization times(5-7days for tubs)


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Invisibleprovo
Peace Pilgrim

Registered: 10/18/09
Posts: 189
Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: rumfor69]
    #18923581 - 10/02/13 09:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing it is appreciated and taken into account.

:takingnotes::happyheart:


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Invisibleprovo
Peace Pilgrim

Registered: 10/18/09
Posts: 189
Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: provo]
    #18926506 - 10/03/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Update (THIS IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SHAMELESS <24hr BUMP):

As I stated in a previous comment, I decided to harvest the depressing aborting flush and proceed to soak in order to prepare for a second flush.

I was hesitant at first because I did consider the fact that this could be oversaturation -- as SpitballJedi pointed out. I figured soaking might not be the best thing to do when your substrate has a potentially high water content to begin with... But still went through with it in the spur of the moment :justdontknow:.

I soaked in a very weak (1tbsp 5%NaClO/5gal H2O) bleach solution for 24 hours then left to drain upside down for ~12 hours.

Already loads of pins showing up -- after only 24 hours :africaface: This looks much more like the characteristics of this monoculture I am used to!

If the same situation occurs with this second flush (massive pinset with no growth), I will look into altering/improving my fan setup (location and intensity). If that also does not remediate the problem, I will either further analyze my procedure or simply move on, entirely forgetting this ever happened...:justdontknow:

Again, I really appreciate the input.:happyheart::thumbup:

Also, figured I should mention this before humiliating myself, English is not my native tongue. If ever I make a grammatical error (or any other kind of error), please do let me know! I would really appreciate it as I am trying to improve my English.


Edited by provo (10/03/13 04:01 PM)


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: provo]
    #18926611 - 10/03/13 04:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

your English is better than a lot of people here.


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Invisibleprovo
Peace Pilgrim

Registered: 10/18/09
Posts: 189
Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18927150 - 10/03/13 06:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks! Really means a lot to me.:heart:


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InvisibleSkinty
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Re: Monotub troubleshooting [Re: provo]
    #18927235 - 10/03/13 06:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

provo said:

I soaked in a very weak (1tbsp 5%NaClO/5gal H2O) bleach solution for 24 hours then left to drain upside down for ~12 hours.





I wish you the best of luck but...^^wtf did you do? :thumbup:

And what was it meant to achieve :lol:


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