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LoveLightPeace



Registered: 08/26/11
Posts: 286
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Coir easier than straw?
#18914659 - 10/01/13 05:22 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Why is it said that coir is easier than straw for bulk substrate?
-------------------- I am so small I can barely be seen. How can this great love be inside me? Look at your eyes. They are small, but they see enormous things. (Rumi)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Both are substrate materials. Neither is any 'easier' than the other. Use what is easier to get. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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SupaThaRipper
Genetics Hoarder



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 1,502
Loc: USA
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Re: Coir easier than straw? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#18914766 - 10/01/13 06:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Isnt it true that straw is more prone to mold contamination?
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Ten years ago, everyone said "coir has no nutes".
Contamination is a fact of life and nearly every substrate eventually succumbs to it indoors if left in production long enough. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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I'd say coir is "easier" to prepare than straw if you are preparing the coir via Damion's tek. Coir takes way less processing than straw and makes less of a mess. I also like the texture of coir over straw for cubes. Straw is a lot cheaper though. The king of all substrate materials for cubensis is feild-aged horse manure and it's free.
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cynical bastad
another guy
Registered: 08/17/13
Posts: 175
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Re: Coir easier than straw? *DELETED* [Re: hamloaf]
#18914962 - 10/01/13 08:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by cynical bastadReason for deletion: .
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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I wouldn't use that. It appears to be from the stable evidenced by the cedar chip shavings. You want the manure nuggets that are fully dry, grey in color and from the field.
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cynical bastad
another guy
Registered: 08/17/13
Posts: 175
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Re: Coir easier than straw? [Re: hamloaf]
#18915091 - 10/01/13 08:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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No cedar, maybe some other branches that were chopped up with the mower. But chips none the less, yes.
Is 2-3 months usually ok to sun dry...say in your neck of the woods? Or should i let it go all winter and then it'll be ready spring?
Thanks man
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
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If the manure is fully dehydrated, in the form of a nugget and grey in color then I would use it.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Coir easier than straw? [Re: hamloaf]
#18915580 - 10/01/13 10:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I find coir easier than straw. It requires less effort and is more resistant to contamination.
RR is right, but in the short race, coir wins more often.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
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I can agree with all of that except I don't know what you mean about one substrate being more restiant to contams over another though. That's not true. If and WHEN you have your pasteurization technique specific to the substrate material being preppared down pact, then the only other place that contamination mainly comes from is bad spawn.
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Coir easier than straw? [Re: hamloaf]
#18915816 - 10/01/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hamloaf said: I can agree with all of that except I don't know what you mean about one substrate being more restiant to contams over another though. That's not true. If and WHEN you have your pasteurization technique specific to the substrate material being preppared down pact, then the only other place that contamination mainly comes from is bad spawn.
Yeah, but sometimes you can get 8 flushes from a sub, and sometimes you get one and it goes green. That's the difference.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Coir easier than straw? [Re: hamloaf]
#18917340 - 10/01/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hamloaf said: I can agree with all of that except I don't know what you mean about one substrate being more restiant to contams over another though. That's not true. If and WHEN you have your pasteurization technique specific to the substrate material being preppared down pact, then the only other place that contamination mainly comes from is bad spawn.
Coir is more forgiving than straw, that's why the bucket tek works so well for so many people.
Try using straw in "Damions tek" and see what happens.
If all substrates were equally contam resistant/prone, then we could treat them all the same and just bucket tek everything.
Just for the sake of argument: Let's say you go through all the steps to properly pasteurize some straw. For whatever reason, unbeknownst to you, it actually did not turn out to be properly pasteurized.
And then, let's say the exact same thing, but you used coir instead.
Which one do you think is more prone to contamination?
Even when properly pasteurized, pasteurization will only help preserve your substrate for so long, it will eventually become more susceptible to contamination. Straw will contaminate faster than coir.
That's what I mean by coir being "more resistant to contamination." The evidence of my claim is very well substantiated on many, many posts by countless people on theses forums.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
Edited by SpitballJedi (10/02/13 03:41 PM)
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j_db69
Forever learning shaman



Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 897
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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I think it is only "more prone to contam" b/c the aeration of the substrate, ie, coir will breath better than a more compacted straw, on their own
City folks will find coir cleaner to work with, where as country folks would be foolish to pass up CHEAP straw
-------------------- One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the dark conscious. --Jung
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Coir easier than straw? [Re: j_db69]
#18955586 - 10/09/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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What if you put pasteurized straw in one bucket and pasteurized coir in another and put the lids on.
Which do you think would show contam faster? Do you think aeration would have anything to do with it in this situation?
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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j_db69
Forever learning shaman



Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 897
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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I do. the straw will be more compacted (if shredded)
I think if you mix the straw with verm, it would be a much closer consistency, and more likely to not contam. I am not disagreeing that on it's own, coir is easier to work with.
-------------------- One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the dark conscious. --Jung
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Coir easier than straw? [Re: j_db69]
#18955879 - 10/09/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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In a sealed container, I'm not sure what aeration exists.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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j_db69
Forever learning shaman



Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 897
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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If they were indeed pasteurized completely, with lids sealed (sorry, missed that part earlier), then I would assume that they have the same chance of failure. Again, if pasteurization was complete.
Does certain contaminates grow better on one substrate? Why? Maybe coir contains anti microbial properties which straw lacks? thanks for discussion
-------------------- One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the dark conscious. --Jung
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Coir easier than straw? [Re: j_db69]
#18958854 - 10/10/13 11:20 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
j_db69 said: Does certain contaminates grow better on one substrate? Why?
Yes. As a matter of fact, many contams can't germinate on coir and most at least have a hard time.
I honestly can't tell you the exact biological and/or chemical reasons for this, but I think it is because straw is more nutrient rich than coir; not just in mycological terms, but in more grand terms.
If you pack your coir down real tight and leave your straw nice and fluffy, or vice versa, the straw will still show contamination before the coir will, even when properly pasteurized. I assure you, aeration has nothing to do with it.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Coir easier than straw? [Re: j_db69]
#18958860 - 10/10/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Coir retains moisture better than straw, but one is not more prone to contamination over the other when said substrate material is pasteurized correctly.
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