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Offlinecircastes
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Antipsychotics
    #18914401 - 10/01/13 02:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

How useful are they really? I'm starting to have tardive dyskensia symptoms and feel like my brain is really slowing down, I'm also suspecting that they may be producing amotivation or negative symptoms of schizophrenia themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipsychotic#Adverse_effects
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/mar/02/mythoftheantipsychotic

Seems they cause brain damage long term.

What are your thoughts, what literature do you have? I think after reading up I'm going to halve my Abilify treatment myself then stop it. I will talk to my psychiatrist soon but I'm at least coming off this one. My brain is my greatest asset.

I think I will just rely on the body/brain to fix itself. Seems people are having more luck this way.


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Offlines240779
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Re: Antipsychotics [Re: circastes]
    #18915765 - 10/01/13 11:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I have copies of all of the following documents. I'll upload them later. If you google them, you should find them, but I'll upload them if you want.


Multimodal meta-analysis of structural and functional brain changes in first episode psychosis and the effects of antipsychotic medication

Why Drugging All Schizophrenics For Life Is Not the Answer

Scientific Proof: Antipsychotics Shrink Brain

Did FDA Include Evidence of Brain Damage Caused by Antipsychotics?

Evidence of Neuroleptic Drug-Induced Brain Damage in Patients

Mechanism of Action of Antipsychotics, Haloperidol and Olanzapine in vitro

Subcortical MRI Volumes in Neuroleptic-Naive and Treated Patients With Schizophrenia

Neuroleptics in progressive structural brain abnormalities in psychiatric illness


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Antipsychotics [Re: s240779]
    #18916149 - 10/01/13 01:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

How useful are they really?




I've been on most of them off and on since 2006.  Haldol, zyprexa, geodon, abilify, invega, fanapt, seroquel, etc.  I firmly believe that they do not work long term and cause damage and a decreased quality of life.  I am however in the process of getting a referral from my doc for ECT.  (electroconvulsive therapy)  I know that sounds extreme but I'm sort of at a last resort.  I'm schizoaffective and I'm so fucking tired of all this.


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Offlinedaz01
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? [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #18916341 - 10/01/13 01:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
Quote:

How useful are they really?



I'm so fucking tired of all this.




So true man, schizophrenic here. I've been on Haldol, Olanzpine and Risperidone and they failed to work. Now I'm on Clozapine which seems to be doing the trick.

:feelsbadman: to think AS's could cause brain damage. What other choice do I have!?:crankey:


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Offlines240779
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Re: ? [Re: daz01]
    #18916376 - 10/01/13 02:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Relaxation techniques, relaxing albeit addictive drugs such as opiates and benzos, alcohol (in moderation), niacin*, psychedelics**


*The top niacin dose ever was a 16-year-old schizophrenic girl who took 120 tablets (500 mg each) in one day. That is 60,000 mg of niacin. The 'voices' she had been hearing were gone immediately. She then took 3,000 mg a day to maintain wellness.

http://www.rawfoodinfo.com/articles/art_niacinforpsychosis.html (Abram Hoffer)


**Treatment of Childhood Schizophrenia Utilizing LSD and Psilocybin

http://youtu.be/J01YPfOQRv8


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: ? [Re: s240779]
    #18916510 - 10/01/13 02:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

What other choice do I have!?




That's why I'm looking into ECT.  Exactly.


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Re: ? [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #18916542 - 10/01/13 02:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

ECT interests me. I hear modern ECT is more refined than the old stuff. Carrie Fischer, the actress who played Princess Leia in Star Wars compared it to the after effects of LSD.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: ? [Re: s240779]
    #18916610 - 10/01/13 02:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'm a little worried about memory loss...


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Re: ? [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #18916872 - 10/01/13 03:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

if you really need antipsychotics, try that new cannabis strain which has almost no THC and is high in CBD. it's proven to be effective against schizophrenia.


good luck!


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: ? [Re: moi]
    #18917410 - 10/01/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I just smoked an indica strain called jilly bean and its like I pissed off God's angels.  And its Lucifer.  Voices get louder.  They usually yell for Obama and claim that it is a collective awakening.  Feels like there is communication with other intelligences.  And feels like my brain is being squished/swelling.


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Re: ? [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #18917490 - 10/01/13 05:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

anyone's psychosis here related to hallucinogens?


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: ? [Re: moi]
    #18918123 - 10/01/13 08:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Clozapin really works? I was told it was a kind of resort for if I go really off the rails. Apparently it's very highly regarded.

These other ones though, they don't seem to stop the paranoia. And I'm not going to sit back and relax with this tardive dyskenesia starting.

Bit wary of this new MJ strain, MJ was always really, really bad for me. Never once did I get high.

My 'psychosis' was extreme paranoia, distortions in thinking, conspiracies, persecutions, but no voices or hallucinations, all brought on by MJ. Seemed mushrooms didn't make a difference really.


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My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: ? [Re: circastes]
    #18918131 - 10/01/13 08:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

But sometimes I think I just need to calm the shit down.


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Offlinemoi
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Re: ? [Re: circastes]
    #18918346 - 10/01/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
Clozapin really works? I was told it was a kind of resort for if I go really off the rails. Apparently it's very highly regarded.

These other ones though, they don't seem to stop the paranoia. And I'm not going to sit back and relax with this tardive dyskenesia starting.

Bit wary of this new MJ strain, MJ was always really, really bad for me. Never once did I get high.

My 'psychosis' was extreme paranoia, distortions in thinking, conspiracies, persecutions, but no voices or hallucinations, all brought on by MJ. Seemed mushrooms didn't make a difference really.



like i said in another thread... it's not MJ thats making you psychotic... it's THC. that new strain has virtually no THC, has been proven to work as an antipsychotic and the netherlands started using it officially for schizo.

the strains "we're" smoking are high THC and virtually no CBD. that new strain is exaclty the other way around :smile:

i would SO love to hear anyone's experience with it.


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: ? [Re: moi]
    #18918505 - 10/01/13 09:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Hmm okay, me too.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: ? [Re: moi]
    #18924647 - 10/03/13 06:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

moi said:
anyone's psychosis here related to hallucinogens?




I honestly believe that I had a dose dependent Kundalini Awakening on mushrooms...  And that I broke through into a dimension of spirit travelers.  They are like manipulation masters.  Puppet masters.  They have enough control over my body to alter my emotions and contract muscles or twitch them.  They also can produce stabbing sensations and like pin prick feelings.  They feed off of human energy and it often feels like I am stuck to a vacuum made of other people.  They talk in voices while there are regular human conversations going on and they are like overlapping the world that exists around me by using lies in place of what is actually going on besides their games.  They've called themselves Baphomets and together Baphomet many times.

Anyway, yes psilocybin opened a doorway into the paranormal and it is fucking real.  I'm hoping ECT would be like some kind of weapon.  I was tazed once when I approached a cop a little out of sorts and it ripped me right out of a sort of possession state so I have hope that electricity would do the trick.  DON'T FUCK WITH THE DEMONIC.

I'm fucking inhabited.  Yes hallucinogens brought this on.  But I don't believe in the medical model of psychosis.  Demons and angels exist.  I see them and hear them.  There is like a layer of the biosphere that they can jump up into and it flashes white when this happens.  They fly as balls of light.  Succubus exist.

They say they are from heaven.  But those that are not have made a game of being in hell.  And they rape people for energy and hold people in emotional trances.  There is a mixing of genetics taking place as these beings shuffle around real human content.

There is some selection process going on where influential and acceptable minds are placed above 'others' and allowed to passively mind control large groups of people.  These entities are like capstones for a larger group of personalities.


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InvisibleLordSenate
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Re: ? [Re: s240779]
    #18926114 - 10/03/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Relaxation techniques, relaxing albeit addictive drugs such as opiates and benzos, alcohol (in moderation), niacin*, psychedelics**


*The top niacin dose ever was a 16-year-old schizophrenic girl who took 120 tablets (500 mg each) in one day. That is 60,000 mg of niacin. The 'voices' she had been hearing were gone immediately. She then took 3,000 mg a day to maintain wellness.

http://www.rawfoodinfo.com/articles/art_niacinforpsychosis.html (Abram Hoffer)


**Treatment of Childhood Schizophrenia Utilizing LSD and Psilocybin

http://youtu.be/J01YPfOQRv8




Yeah but did it mention what it did to her liver? Seriously... BAD IDEA


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Offlines240779
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Re: ? [Re: LordSenate]
    #18926131 - 10/03/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe nothing? Don't just assume that that something is going to harm the liver. You didn't evidence the fact that it's a "BAD IDEA."


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InvisibleLordSenate
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Re: ? [Re: s240779]
    #18926193 - 10/03/13 02:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If you honestly think that the amount of niacin that was taken is safe for the liver you are absolutely crazy.

Go ahead and take it but when your liver shuts down don't blame someone else.

A two second search brought up loads of pages. Not to mention that if you have ever taken niacin even 1,000mg or so, you should be able to tell that it would not be a bright idea to take the amount you were suggesting..

I didn't "assume" anything, use a little common sense or take a few seconds to look it up yourself.


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InvisibleLordSenate
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Re: ? [Re: LordSenate]
    #18926199 - 10/03/13 02:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It may not be as damaging if it isn't a sustained dose but I highly doubt that it won't do a bit of damage.


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InvisibleLordSenate
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Re: ? *DELETED* [Re: LordSenate]
    #18926204 - 10/03/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by PedoPolice

Reason for deletion: ....



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Offlines240779
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Re: ? [Re: LordSenate]
    #18926391 - 10/03/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

To say that it's common sense it absurd. Common sense has little to no bearing in the world of chemicals. In that world it's about technical data. There are examples of substances that are physiologically safe to take in doses far greater than usual, such as marijuana and LSD. Drug propagandists make statements similar to yours all the time -- and they'd be very surprised if they actually researched the astounding safety profiles of certain drugs.


Quote:

LordSenate said:
Not to mention that if you have ever taken niacin even 1,000 mg or so, you should be able to tell that it would not be a bright idea to take the amount you were suggesting..




I have. It's the niacin flush and it's harmless and it has a ceiling. The fact that see this as a strong indication that the subject in question is dangerous is an indication of your presumptuousness.


The only indication that such a thing is harmful of the surface (without doing research) is that one would never get such a dose of niacin from diet, however we do know that just because something isn't natural, doesn't mean it's bad, right?

Very arrogant and hard headed of you to insist that a person should just know that such a thing is bad because it's "common sense."

Quote:

LordSenate said:
Have you ever taken 1,000+ mg of niacin? Doses around that or a little higher cause a lot of flushing and burning.




Once again, this is not an indication of danger at all. I've done it multiple times. It's certainly not painful. I've read it's harmless.

Quote:

LordSenate said:
You go ahead but I would be careful about putting that idea into someones head other then your own.




I linked to an article written by somebody who practices such therapy. It's a person's responsibility to evaluate information them self. I'm presenting information. You can't say I'm forcing anything down anyone's throat. They have to evaluate the information and decide whether the safety of the recommendation has been established or not.


Quote:

LordSenate said:
Liver Damage

One of the most serious side effects involving high doses of niacin is liver damage. Since this vitamin affects the way the liver creates LDL cholesterol, prolonged use, especially in higher doses, can cause liver damage, according to the National Institutes of Health. This may lead to inflammation of the liver, resulting in lowered function. When this occurs you'll often experience abdominal pain, headaches, abnormal fatigue and jaundice.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/31427-side-effects-high-doses-plain/#ixzz2gh5ouXtS





Here's the author's response to this (both paragraphs):





Orthomolecular Medicine for Everyone By Abram Hoffer, Andrew W. Saul
http://books.google.com/books?id=mUIrfIcsX1IC&pg=PA81


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InvisibleLordSenate
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Re: ? [Re: s240779]
    #18926561 - 10/03/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yes you can use common sense with drugs quite often. Honestly if you can't use your own experience to determine what side effects or otherwise harmful effects you experienced then you may as well try not to learn anything. Life is all about experiencing things and determining how they impacted your life however it is not in and of itself a be all and end all thing. As you mentioned you also need to take into account research and other things as well.

Yes the flushing from niacin is relatively benign however it is extremely uncomfortable even at doses around 1,500mg.. As stated earlier you were suggesting someone take 60,000. That's wonderful you read that it's harmless. Go take 60,000 and report back on how it made you feel.

What was the point of posting that explaining that 3,000 mg didn't cause liver damage? How is that the same thing as 60,000?

Honestly if you are going to try and prove a point then at least try. I could be completely wrong, however all the resources I have looked at didn't show it.

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if 3,000 mg may not effect your liver, however I am very skeptical that 60,000 would not only be hell while it is in your body but also damage your body in some way.

I have no problem saying I am wrong if you can show me something that shows that much niacin won't hurt you. But honestly I really don't think you will find anything.


P.S. If you think I am talking drug propaganda you obviously haven't been to any other forum or looked at any of my points. It's hard to sound intelligent when you assume something about someone you don't know.

Read the technical data all you want. If the technical data says it's safe and then it kills you then a lot of good that did you. It was making you feel sick but because the technical data said it's alright you went ahead and kept doing it anyway.

EXPERIENCE. It is very helpful in the drug world.


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Re: ? [Re: LordSenate]
    #18927270 - 10/03/13 06:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Don't go off your meds circastes, you aren't ready yet.


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InvisibleLordSenate
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Re: ? [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18927728 - 10/03/13 07:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Hey man I'm not trying to be rude or anything but you should probably watch who the reply is set to in your posts. Honestly I thought you were trying to insult me with a word I've never heard before LOL. Then I decided to go to the first page to see if it was the OP.


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InvisibleLordSenate
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Re: ? [Re: s240779]
    #18927764 - 10/03/13 08:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I read your post again and honestly I am dumb founded.

Anyone who reads someones advice especially given the circumstance should take time to research that information.

HOWEVER. It is not just the person who is being provided advices responsibility to verify and understand information.

If you really think that it is okay for you to post something that could very well be extremely dangerous and then say "well its not my fault, all I did was make a bunch of posts after someone called me out on it saying it wasn't dangerous".

Maybe you can, but I personally wouldn't be able to live with myself if someones liver failed because I posted some ridiculous statement saying 60,000mg of niacin isn't harmful..

You must be trolling me.


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