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OfflineBeanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX
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Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
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Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #18909967 - 09/30/13 04:29 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Share fetish with significant other/be declined or porn.

Thank you porn, keep me normal.


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
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Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: Kickle]
    #18910243 - 09/30/13 07:34 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
I just watched this the other day.

http://www.ted.com/talks/zimchallenge.html

~2:45 onward is related to this thread
~3:20 are some nice stats :lol:





Great find :thumbup: This should be sign that we can't keep educating like was done in the 1900's. The model is still the same, but it doesn't fit the task anymore.

Also, I read this article ("Sex Is Cheap: Why young men have the upper hand in bed, even when they're failing in life" in Slate magazine) that essentially blames women for not having higher standards:

Quote:

When attractive women will still bed you, life for young men, even those who are floundering, just isn't so bad. This isn't to say that all men direct the course of their relationships. Plenty don't. But what many young men wish for—access to sex without too many complications or commitments—carries the day. If women were more fully in charge of how their relationships transpired, we'd be seeing, on average, more impressive wooing efforts, longer relationships, fewer premarital sexual partners, shorter cohabitations, and more marrying going on.

...

Women's "erotic capital," as Catherine Hakim of the London School of Economics has dubbed it, can still be traded for attention, a job, perhaps a boyfriend, and certainly all the sex she wants, but it can't assure her love and lifelong commitment. Not in this market.




I think that's a bit brash considering the stats Zimbardo provided, but interesting nonetheless. Especially given this statement:
Quote:

Beanhead said:Share fetish with significant other/be declined or porn.






Has porn changed the game?


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full blown human


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #18910253 - 09/30/13 07:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The easy access to porn certainly has changed the game for women imo. They have to try and compete with that free and easy and do anything image from what I'm seeing out there.  It's hardly a good thing imo.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
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Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: Icelander]
    #18910394 - 09/30/13 08:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well, eventually porn becomes boring, right? Or at least less satisfying. Humans still seek out sexual experiences with other humans. Maybe it's a matter of expectations. I think it's becoming more easy to find other people with specific fetishes - there are online communities for that. So, I don't think that's necessarily the problem. I think it is a warping of the way relationships are conceptualized. Zimbardo mentioned that in the clip. Relationships build slowly and subtly, he said. Unfortunately, there is very little in modern society that is valued for its less-than-instantaneous gratification.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: Penelope_Tree] * 2
    #18910417 - 09/30/13 08:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think you understand men well. If porn became boring or less interesting there would be a lot less of it around. It might be like saying that a heroin user might become bored of the high. Even if that were true to a degree there still is nothing better out there. Relationships are hard to find and maintain and rarely last or are happy. That's a serious reason to turn to porn and save your money and time for drugs and beer. 

  I'm not saying my thoughts are the only issue or problem here. Not at all. It's a complex issue.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinei like cow poo
Nature Lover
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Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 4,041
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Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #18911264 - 09/30/13 01:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

porn allows me to vent my sexual frustration in a somewhat harmless manner. i believe it benefits some people and hurts some people. its hard to quantify if it does more harm then good.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: i like cow poo]
    #18911313 - 09/30/13 01:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It certainly keeps your mind focused on chicks and not reality. Instead of releasing your anger or frustration over the shitty society we live in, you release it looking at porn just like men in porn movies.

Effective tool.


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As far as I assume to know...


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
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Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18911349 - 09/30/13 01:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Relationships are hard to find and maintain and rarely last or are happy.




That's part of the problem. There is evidence that supports relationship quality is degrading because people just don't know how to communicate their emotions & empathize (males are at an increased risk, by way of genetic design and social expectations). It isn't something we place emphasis on, here in America at least - it isn't taught in school, and everyone knows that school is the pinnacle of all that is worthy of effort. :rolleyes: There is also evidence that the need to feel understood is an essential component to mental health. So, combine that with being unskilled in communicating your needs and it's no wonder most of modern society is neurotic. (You yourself have idealized primitive tribes that understand the need for belonging & cultivate personal growth, so I assume you agree.)

When people use behaviors, it is most basically compelled by an emotional impulse. You're looking for a thrill, or you feel the need for control, etc. Maybe you're just modeling what others around you do. Whatever the reason, you're fulfilling an emotional need through a behavior. Behaviors can become addicting, and addiction is unsustainable in terms of happiness.

So you want to enjoy a cigarette every now and then again? I don't see what the problem is, as long as it doesn't interfere with your everyday life and/or become a behavior you use to resolve emotional conflicts. Same here with porn. So you need to satisfy some sexual compulsion. No problem, as long as it doesn't affect your ability to form and sustain real world relationships because, if that happens, then there's a problem, IMHO. 

If society shifts from a cooperative, relationship-based model to a more solitary, individualistic one, things are going to drastically change within the next twenty years. I'm talking single-parent households becoming the new normal, among other things. It's no wonder the porn industry is as prevalent as it is, or why my generation's predecessors don't understand what we're going through, or that the rich keep getting richer while the poor get poorer. But I digress...

Maybe porn is symbolic of a lonely dystopia, and thus why it gets such a bad rap. :shrug:

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
It certainly keeps your mind focused on chicks and not reality. Instead of releasing your anger or frustration over the shitty society we live in, you release it looking at porn just like men in porn movies.

Effective tool.



I wouldn't consider that effective. :lol: You're not really fixing anything, just using a behavior as an impermanent distraction.


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Offlineresonant111
left ∞ right

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: Penelope_Tree] * 1
    #18911423 - 09/30/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

porn is alot like grand theft auto. as long as you REALIZE it's just a super-exaggerated virtual reality....well then you're ok. if you take it as the "real thing" well then you might have some problems.

for example, if you watch porn all the time, BELIEVE that what you are seeing is authentic and try to imitate that jackhammer "fuck the whore" style of sex in your real relationships...well there's going to be alot of frustration and heartbreak in the long run. you're just going to end up using women for sex.

but if you watch porn, realize that it's just an exaggerated fast-food fantasy substitute for genuine love and intimacy with a partner...well then it's just a good ol' release from time to time for single folks.


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
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Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: resonant111]
    #18911481 - 09/30/13 02:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup: Agree


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #18911501 - 09/30/13 02:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Penelope_Tree said:
I wouldn't consider that effective. :lol: You're not really fixing anything, just using a behavior as an impermanent distraction.



Effective tool for the directors.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
Turn on, Tune in, Drop out
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Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: resonant111] * 1
    #18911511 - 09/30/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Penelope_Tree said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Relationships are hard to find and maintain and rarely last or are happy.




That's part of the problem. There is evidence that supports relationship quality is degrading because people just don't know how to communicate their emotions & empathize (males are at an increased risk, by way of genetic design and social expectations). It isn't something we place emphasis on, here in America at least - it isn't taught in school, and everyone knows that school is the pinnacle of all that is worthy of effort. :rolleyes: There is also evidence that the need to feel understood is an essential component to mental health. So, combine that with being unskilled in communicating your needs and it's no wonder most of modern society is neurotic. (You yourself have idealized primitive tribes that understand the need for belonging & cultivate personal growth, so I assume you agree.)

When people use behaviors, it is most basically compelled by an emotional impulse. You're looking for a thrill, or you feel the need for control, etc. Maybe you're just modeling what others around you do. Whatever the reason, you're fulfilling an emotional need through a behavior. Behaviors can become addicting, and addiction is unsustainable in terms of happiness.

So you want to enjoy a cigarette every now and then again? I don't see what the problem is, as long as it doesn't interfere with your everyday life and/or become a behavior you use to resolve emotional conflicts. Same here with porn. So you need to satisfy some sexual compulsion. No problem, as long as it doesn't affect your ability to form and sustain real world relationships because, if that happens, then there's a problem, IMHO. 

If society shifts from a cooperative, relationship-based model to a more solitary, individualistic one, things are going to drastically change within the next twenty years. I'm talking single-parent households becoming the new normal, among other things. It's no wonder the porn industry is as prevalent as it is, or why my generation's predecessors don't understand what we're going through, or that the rich keep getting richer while the poor get poorer. But I digress...

Maybe porn is symbolic of a lonely dystopia, and thus why it gets such a bad rap. :shrug:
distraction.




Good post and thread Penelope_Tree.

Quote:

resonant111 said:
porn is alot like grand theft auto. as long as you REALIZE it's just a super-exaggerated virtual reality....well then you're ok. if you take it as the "real thing" well then you might have some problems.

for example, if you watch porn all the time, BELIEVE that what you are seeing is authentic and try to imitate that jackhammer "fuck the whore" style of sex in your real relationships...well there's going to be alot of frustration and heartbreak in the long run. you're just going to end up using women for sex.

but if you watch porn, realize that it's just an exaggerated fast-food fantasy substitute for genuine love and intimacy with a partner...well then it's just a good ol' release from time to time for single folks.




This is true.

I personally don't see anything wrong with porn provided the person viewing it doesn't believe it's authentic and that they should emulate it. This is where better sex education would be a good thing in schools. When kids learn about sex through porn it's no wonder there are issues.


--------------------
:brainondrugs:

You are not special :haha:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18911615 - 09/30/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
It certainly keeps your mind focused on chicks and not reality. Instead of releasing your anger or frustration over the shitty society we live in, you release it looking at porn just like men in porn movies.

Effective tool.




What shitty society?  We have it better now than ever before


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OfflineGrapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18911659 - 09/30/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

"Shit!" now in new mild & creamy flavour.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #18911664 - 09/30/13 02:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What shitty society?

Lady Gaga and not Pat Metheny? McDonald's instead of healthy fresh fast foods? I am not allowed to figure out ways to peaceful society when on psychedelic drugs? US military budgets 700 billion USD while NASA gets 18 billion USD, medical research 30 billion USD?

Tip of the iceberg.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18911700 - 09/30/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
What shitty society?

Lady Gaga and not Pat Metheny? McDonald's instead of healthy fresh fast foods? I am not allowed to figure out ways to peaceful society when on psychedelic drugs? US military budgets 700 billion USD while NASA gets 18 billion USD, medical research 30 billion USD?

Tip of the iceberg.




Fuck Pat Metheny, give the people what they want.  Popular culture has always been crass.  It is irrelevant.  We have more choices now than ever before.  I can get all the healthy food I want and so can anybody else.  Every nation on the planet has drug laws and pretty much has for quite some time.  Why is medical research the purview of the federal government?  The military certainly is.  NASA?  I have a better idea.  Let's stop with that stuff and fund something supremely useful and essential.  Like fusion research.


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,252
Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18911803 - 09/30/13 03:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Let's stop with that stuff and fund something supremely useful and essential.  Like fusion research.




I couldn't agree more... but I don't think TPTB would allow public access until they're satisfied that it won't result in a population increase.

As far as the porn goes, it doesn't seem possible to sort out the net effect so I have no opinion on that but I do have strong feelings toward the concept of liberty. Porn in and of itself doesn't infringe on individual liberty.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: Rahz]
    #18911814 - 09/30/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It is an expression of individual liberty.


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
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Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18911973 - 09/30/13 04:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yes exactly, we agree. Regardless of whether the overall effect was detrimental or not I would have strong reservations about restricting that liberty. I prefer to allow people to hurt themselves. Sex slavery is an infringement of liberty so is an entirely different issue but infringing on people's liberty to prevent people from infringing on people's liberty seems a kind of twisted logic.

Some would argue that we should choose the lesser of evils but it's a slippery slope.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
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Re: Porn: For Better or Worse [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #18914799 - 10/01/13 06:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I saw this article on my FB page. It seems relevant to the concern about addiction to porn and psycho-social as well as psycho-sexual implications:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/29/porn-addiction_n_4004069.html


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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