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Offlinevaneazy
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No growth in WBS
    #18910674 - 09/30/13 10:27 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

So, I noced up 7 WBS quart jars with PESA about 2 weeks ago. Literally, no growth at all for two weeks?! I see/smell nothing but WBS when inspecting the jars. I have 2 theories why this may have happened.
1) i used SHIP's to noc the jars up and for GE I used EZ felt but instead of the RTV silicone ( i couldnt getthe silicone to stick the felt on for some reason) I used micropore tape to hold the felt to the lid 
2) the only otherthing i could think that would hinder growth would be the storage of the syringe. I never opened the plastic bag the syringe came in but it was in the back of my closet for a few months. Although it never got that warm in the closet could this kill the spores? I know it should have been in the fridge but yeah theywerent kept there lol. 

Any input on these 2 theories or why there is no growth showing? thanks for the help guys


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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18910851 - 09/30/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It's probably some error in the prep, Post a pic of the jars and tell us how your preped the jars too.

The syringes go through the mail they're fine in your cabinet.

The ez felt could have introduced contamination it's hard to say how good you did with the GE port though


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OfflineDr. FunkNShine
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: bodhisatta]
    #18910881 - 09/30/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Sometimes it might take that long, but not all the time. How are you able to really smell them?


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Offlinevaneazy
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: bodhisatta]
    #18910884 - 09/30/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

i can post pics but they just look like WBS in jars lol no growth of anything. i prepped them by rinsing the grains until the water ran clear, let them soak for 24hrs with some added gypsum, brought them to a simmer, let them dry. passed the toilet paper test. Put them in quart jars, PCed for 120 minutes with foil on top of them. the lids have a tiny hole with rtv on both sides for inoculation and for GE i cut squares of ezfelt and connected them to the lid with micropore tape.  im not home right now but if its necessary ill post some jar pics later although like i said they will just be pics of jars with water marks on them from the PC with some WBS in them :smile:


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Offlinevaneazy
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18910895 - 09/30/13 11:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Drfunk i can smell the faint smell of wbs through the ge felt but i also cracked a single jar to see if it smelled funny but just wbs :shrug:i figured sometimes it takes a while im just surprised/kind of pissed im not seeing any growth even from contams lol


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OfflineRockhound
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18910913 - 09/30/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Throw out the jar you 'cracked' open, and don't do that again. There is no point in closing up that jar and expecting anthing but contam's.


--------------------
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Offlinevaneazy
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: Rockhound]
    #18910958 - 09/30/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

theres a chance of contam but i mean i dont see any harm in keeping it around just to see if i see any growth. i only had the lid cracked for a couple seconds and it was in a clean room... as soon as i see signs of contam its gone though :smile: i know im not supposed to open them at all but after 2 weeks of nothing showing i had to check


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OfflineRockhound
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18910989 - 09/30/13 11:54 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Your prep was identical to mine, and it works will for me. I suspect the filter isn't a great seal, or time and patience might fix everything.
My guess is on patience.


--------------------
Rocks speak to me, and tell me this:
The Hell Creek formation is a gigantic slab of rocks that covers several western states. It contains an account of the dinosaurs' demise.  In the late Cretaceous period, the first Cannabis species appear, and soon after, all the non-bird dinosaurs disappeared. Obviously, marihuana killed the dinosaurs. That giant meteor that smacked the yucatan peninsula right afterwards, coincidence.


Edited by Rockhound (09/30/13 11:55 AM)


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Offlinevaneazy
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: Rockhound]
    #18910993 - 09/30/13 11:55 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

hopefully the time and patience will pay off haha thanks though


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OfflineOregonMushys
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18911148 - 09/30/13 12:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Im havin problem with my 2yr old spore syringes not germinating anything. Take spore prints from every most recent grow, and/or make agar slants or you'll have to order spores every 2 yrs lol.


--------------------
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Offlinevaneazy
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: OregonMushys]
    #18912945 - 09/30/13 08:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

im just gonna give this a bump to see if the night crowd at the shroomery has anything to say lol :smile:


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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18914839 - 10/01/13 07:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Everything that can be said has been said unless you want to post pictures, but if you think your jars are A-OK then don't post them and figure out where things went wrong?


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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18914895 - 10/01/13 07:29 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Where and how did you source the spores that you inoculated your jars with? I think you have a contamination though because you used micropore tape to adhere the filters to the lids instead of silicone. Micropore tape has very large pores that contamination to the mushroom culture can easily get through and is why when adhering filter disks to lids silicone is used because the silicone creates an air tight seal allowing air to only pass the filtering material.


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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: hamloaf]
    #18915526 - 10/01/13 10:44 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
Where and how did you source the spores that you inoculated your jars with? I think you have a contamination though because you used micropore tape to adhere the filters to the lids instead of silicone. Micropore tape has very large pores that contamination to the mushroom culture can easily get through and is why when adhering filter disks to lids silicone is used because the silicone creates an air tight seal allowing air to only pass the filtering material.




This, is probably exactly why he has problems. But heh he don't wana show us his jars.


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Offlinevaneazy
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: bodhisatta]
    #18922517 - 10/02/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

whoa bodhisatta just relax lol i was getting around to posting them ive just had a lot on my plate the last couple days and didnt have much time
the lids i made, and theres the jars. the lighting was weird but theres literally nothing growing in any of the jars, not even contams. And i even opened the same jar i opened last time and it still just smells like straight wbs. the picture of the single jar is kind of fuzzy but thats just water marks ( i guess thats what happens in a PC )on the outside


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Offlinevaneazy
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18922534 - 10/02/13 05:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

oh sorry, i forgot to ask. Ive used just micropore tape for my GE ( with 4 holes in metal lids)for my first 2 grows and never had any problems. I thought a lot of people used micropore tape with success?


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OfflineSupaThaRipper
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18923003 - 10/02/13 07:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I use micropore tape all the time with success.. cloth kind. Ive never used the paper kind


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Offlinevaneazy
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: SupaThaRipper]
    #18923631 - 10/02/13 09:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

yeah same here, supa. and these guys just talkin ish haha I actually think the paper kind is called something other than micropore tape for some reason though lol i cant remember where i saw that


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Offlinevaneazy
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18925185 - 10/03/13 09:59 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

anything bodhisatta?


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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18925224 - 10/03/13 10:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Bad syringe? I'm at a loss. The micropore tape thing is weird I would think you would have at least contamination growing if that was the problem. Did you shake them up after you injected the syringe?


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Offlinevaneazy
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: bodhisatta]
    #18925320 - 10/03/13 10:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, thats what i thought too that if there was a contam atleast THAT would show some growth. nah i didnt shake em, ive only ever shaken when like a quarter of jar is colonized.this whole situation is so frustrating lol that was my last syringe. im just trying to trip my face off for a weekend:undecided:


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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18925483 - 10/03/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

vaneazy said:
the lids i made,




Your lids are kind of a hot mess but if there is no growth at all after two weeks, contams or otherwise, I would suspect the syringe is no longer viable.

Do you have another one you can use? I'd use it.


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Offlinevaneazy
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18925548 - 10/03/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

how/why are the lids a mess? just because of the felt being taped on with micropore? the injection hole is just rtv silicone


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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18925559 - 10/03/13 12:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yea, I would assume bad syring also. He never did answer where or how he sourced his spores. My guess is still contamination from the filter construction. You need two layers of tyvek between micropore tape in order for that to make a viable filter and also because not every contaminate to the mushroom culture is visible.


--------------------

   
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Offlinevaneazy
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: hamloaf]
    #18925589 - 10/03/13 12:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

oh sorry, i got they syringe from a sponsor, i would say who but i know ill get yelled at haha and i thought if you were using tyvek you didnt even need the tape? when did everyone start hating on micropore tape? lol when i was first researching before i got my supplies i remember people saying they liked the tape since it was cheap/easy to find/ fairly reliable


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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: hamloaf]
    #18925597 - 10/03/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I just thought that it's perhaps the filter being made from micropore tape was too porous and has let the WBS dry out over the first few days to the point at which myc and any contams could not germinate on it.

Quote:

oh sorry, i got they syringe from a sponsor, i would say who but i know ill get yelled at haha and i thought if you were using tyvek you didnt even need the tape? when did everyone start hating on micropore tape? lol when i was first researching before i got my supplies i remember people saying they liked the tape since it was cheap/easy to find/ fairly reliable




IMO, micropore tape is good as extra protection on a PF jar's injection ports. It's polyfill or tyveck that is "tight" enough to keep moisture in, allow for gas exchange, and resist trans-filter contamination if the filter does get wet.


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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18925627 - 10/03/13 12:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Nobody is hating on micro pore tape, kid. You just have to understand that micropore tape alone is not a viable filtering material for grain jar lids. Micropore tape is reccomeded to be used when getting started with brf cakes.  It's not even needed for brf cakes if your vermiculite layer is dry.

Either way the problem stems from a bad syringe or bad lid filter construction. Best bet is to start over. Hit up the Marketplace for new genetics.


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Offlinevaneazy
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: hamloaf]
    #18925730 - 10/03/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

So bodhisatta, i should just take off the felt/tape and just put polyfill in the larger holes and that should suffice?


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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18925738 - 10/03/13 12:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yea polyfill or silicone two pieces of tyvek top and bottom. If using polyfill make sure it's stuffed very tight though. If your polyfill port is 1/4" or larger you can use it for injecting through with a needle too but I still like to use the SHIPs.


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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18925864 - 10/03/13 01:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I too have had a very similar problem to this and finally solved it, which was the pressure cooker not holding enough pressure so not raising the water boiling point enough. 

Also, did you get the needle red hot when knocking jars up? Your prep sounds fine but this is the hit and miss you play with MS and syringes, would love to get some isolates and use those instead of MS syringes.


Edited by Chilled (10/03/13 01:25 PM)


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Offlinevaneazy
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: Chilled]
    #18925891 - 10/03/13 01:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, the needle get red hot, accidentally almost melted the plastic at the base of the needle too xD lol im not sure if this is correct but my PC has the rocker thing atthe top instead of a gauge but the 15 pound pressure rocker does bounce back and forth during PCing... does this always mean its reached 15psi?  ill be super upset if i have to buy another pressure cooker haha


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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18930755 - 10/04/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Where did you get the PC from? Also counting after you have got needle that hot to 10 for it to cool a little before using is good practise too. Also shacking the syringe as hard as you can for a period is good idea.


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OfflineMoGrow
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18931092 - 10/04/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:

vaneazy said:
the lids i made,




Your lids are kind of a hot mess but if there is no growth at all after two weeks, contams or otherwise, I would suspect the syringe is no longer viable.

Do you have another one you can use? I'd use it.




Thats what i say, i dont know when you ordered your syringe but ive read posts about not ordering during the summer because mail trucks get hot as shit. Im with frank on the shot spores, if contam is your issue you will see it. On the subject of lids, there are many ways you can set up a lid but id be afraid of taping anything to the inside of my lids, for fear that the shaking my grains would pull the filter off... but thats just me. GL.


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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18931104 - 10/04/13 12:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

vaneazy said:
how/why are the lids a mess? just because of the felt being taped on with micropore?




:archiebunker:

Yes :rofl:

I would use silicone to attach the filters, much more reliable.


--------------------

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Offlinevaneazy
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18931659 - 10/04/13 03:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

i used the tape so it would be easy to remove the felt when it started getting worn. I figured pulling it with the rtv would be a lot more difficult. guess ill have to switch it up lol


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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: vaneazy]
    #18931668 - 10/04/13 03:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I mean, are you worried about the plastic getting messed up? Silicone peels off really easily.

If you are worried about the filters themselves, don't be...I wouldn't trust the felt when it starts to look worn anyhow. Plus the filter is going to wear out long before the lid does.


--------------------

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You should take a look. :hehehe:


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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18931685 - 10/04/13 03:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Actually on the plastic lids the silicone peels off a little too easily. It hear it helps if you scuff the lid a little with sandpaper.


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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: Stromrider]
    #18931700 - 10/04/13 03:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psillyshroomer said:
Actually on the plastic lids the silicone peels off a little too easily. It hear it helps if you scuff the lid a little with sandpaper.




I hear this a lot but I'll be honest, out of my 150-odd plastic lids that I've used for years...I've not had a single issue with the silicone peeling off.

I could definitely see it happen though.

I recommend using grey RTV silicone for attaching the filters, this type is very rigid when it cures.

Also, use twice as much silicone as you'd think you would need. I see people with little tiny beads of silicone in their lids and shake my head.

I'll get my lid write up done soon, it's simple enough and I have my light box now...I'm just lazy :lol:


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18931721 - 10/04/13 03:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Sanding the area where your going to adhere the filter disk makes the disks stick better to the plastic.


--------------------

   
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18931728 - 10/04/13 03:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:

psillyshroomer said:
Actually on the plastic lids the silicone peels off a little too easily. It hear it helps if you scuff the lid a little with sandpaper.




I hear this a lot but I'll be honest, out of my 150-odd plastic lids that I've used for years...I've not had a single issue with the silicone peeling off.

I could definitely see it happen though.

I recommend using grey RTV silicone for attaching the filters, this type is very rigid when it cures.

Also, use twice as much silicone as you'd think you would need. I see people with little tiny beads of silicone in their lids and shake my head.

I'll get my lid write up done soon, it's simple enough and I have my light box now...I'm just lazy :lol:





Lazy fucker :lol:


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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: Stromrider]
    #18931732 - 10/04/13 03:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
Sanding the area where your going to adhere the filter disk makes the disks stick better to the plastic.





Quote:

psillyshroomer said:
Actually on the plastic lids the silicone peels off a little too easily. It hear it helps if you scuff the lid a little with sandpaper.




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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: Stromrider]
    #18931739 - 10/04/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
Sanding the area where your going to adhere the filter disk makes the disks stick better to the plastic.




Like I said...I've never had an issue. This is the common cure for that though, I'm not disagreeing...I'm just suggesting that you use more silicone :crazy2:

Quote:

psillyshroomer said:
Lazy fucker :lol:




My neck is doing better at least. Almost out of painkillers which is just as well...then I'll get my motivation back :rofl:


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18931751 - 10/04/13 03:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Perhaps I will try the gray shit next time. I did manage to make some pretty cool one piece lids out of the 2 piece metal type a while back by using a bead of silicone around the band. 2 piece lids are a pain when doing g2g. I bought a bunch of plastic lids but still haven't got around to making any up. Guess I am a lazy fucker too :shrug:



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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18931766 - 10/04/13 03:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not the one bitching about filter disks not sticking to my lids. :smirk:


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: hamloaf]
    #18931768 - 10/04/13 03:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Ok :thumbup:


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: No growth in WBS [Re: hamloaf]
    #18931865 - 10/04/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
I'm not the one bitching about filter disks not sticking to my lids. :smirk:




Cool. Neither am I.

Quote:

psillyshroomer said:
Perhaps I will try the gray shit next time. I did manage to make some pretty cool one piece lids out of the 2 piece metal type a while back by using a bead of silicone around the band. 2 piece lids are a pain when doing g2g. I bought a bunch of plastic lids but still haven't got around to making any up. Guess I am a lazy fucker too :shrug:






Yeah, that is smart. I love my plastic lids though :love:


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Offlinecrimsonking91
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Registered: 02/19/13
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Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: No growth in WBS [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18932023 - 10/04/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Foaf has used just paper micropore tape on wbs jars with plenty of success. And it happens sometimes even from new spores ( from a vendor) when I was doing brf sometimes only one or two inoculation spots would germinate and I couldn't figure out why, I guess just start over with new spores


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