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KatuXiK


Registered: 09/19/13
Posts: 175
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Spawn or fruit? (BRF)
#18909822 - 09/30/13 02:58 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I started looking into bulk substrates yesterday, thinking about how I would approach my second grow. Right now I'm doing the PF TEK for my first grow, my log is here, though probably not that important to this thread. My plan of action was to clone a nice fruit or two from my cakes using the cardboard TEK, and then use that to knock up a second round of jars (still trying to figure out how to actually do this), though this time hopefully using grains. I was also planning to take some prints, and hopefully make a few syringes (new genes ftw). However, while spending some time researching this, I looked up whether or not I could just spawn my BRF, and found that that is in fact an option.
Unfortunately I also found that just fruiting the cakes may yield significantly less than I originally thought, however I can't seem to find how much spawning improves your yield, and if it's enough to take the risks of contamination. I have another problem as well, I only have 5 jars.
If I chance doing bulk, this is how I would approach it. Am I daft, or is this a good idea?
I would do a coir:verm/80:20 bulk substrate and spawn it BRF:coir/1:2 using the 4.5 cups (estimated with the dry verm layer removed, I'll actually measure it somehow if I do this) of BRF cake and 7-9 cups (2ish quarts) of coir substrate. I think I would most likely do a tray and put it in a SGFC, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of monotubs right now because I can't seem to wrap my head around the few TEKs I've wread, but that might just be 9 cups of coffee and a few bowls of low quality MJ working against me. If anyone has a simple monotub TEK that would work well for such a small amount of substrate, I'd love to hear it. Unless, is a monotub just a tub with 4 largish holes cut and stuffed with polyfil and the substrate at the bottom? Also do you need to mist monotubs, or are they humid enough on their own? And I'm going to assume they like the normal 2-3 fans a day right?
I'm really new at this, and I want to get the largest yield I can, but only if it's relatively safe from contamination. Would Damion5050's TEk work pretty well for me if I just cut those measurements down to the portions I need, and toss in a tablesoon of gypsum? Also, if I add coffee grounds to improve colonizing speeds, does that also increase my chance of contamination? I've read that it balances pH somewhat and can cause the environment to become very favorable to contaminants as well.
Another question is if I do go with bulk, would the 1:2 ratio I' planning on be ideal, or would 1:1 or 1:3 be better? Or is it not a question of "better" and more a question of colonization speed vs. yield with less/more risk of contams respectively?
Also, because I have a dry verm layer on top and I've picked up the jars a little (lot) more frequently than I should've, are contam chances very high? Should I just bump off the verm that is covered in mycelium at the top, just to remove any potential contaminants? Or would a quick rinse and a 24 hour dunk be good enough to get any nasties off (talk about hopeful)?
So what does the Shroomery think, go all out and bulk it, or play it 100% safe and just fruit the cakes? And do you think they might be ready by halloween???
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Spawn or fruit? (BRF) [Re: KatuXiK]
#18910010 - 09/30/13 05:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fruit.
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d9c6



Registered: 07/02/13
Posts: 632
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: Spawn or fruit? (BRF) [Re: hamloaf]
#18910060 - 09/30/13 05:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fruit, BRF cakes aren't the best thing to use as spawn.
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KatuXiK


Registered: 09/19/13
Posts: 175
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Re: Spawn or fruit? (BRF) [Re: d9c6]
#18910064 - 09/30/13 06:01 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've read that they're not ideal, but that they do work. Is there a very significant chance of contamination or other very strong reason against it, or is it just not the greatest thing ever?
If the risk of contamination isn't very large (given that I sterilize very well), I'd still like to try it, even if only with 3 or 4 of the jars, just to see how it goes, while still getting some material for prints/clones.
Edited by KatuXiK (09/30/13 06:27 AM)
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d9c6



Registered: 07/02/13
Posts: 632
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: Spawn or fruit? (BRF) [Re: KatuXiK]
#18910078 - 09/30/13 06:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
KatuXiK said: I've read that they're not ideal, but that they do work. Is there a very significant chance of contamination or other very strong reason against it, or is it just not the greatest thing ever?
If the risk of contamination isn't very large (given that I sterilize very well), I'd still like to try it, even if only with 3 or 4 of the jars, just to see how it goes, while still getting some material for prints/clones.
Well, if you do decide to do it. Here's a good tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14995972#14995972
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superknoty

Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 39
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Spawn or fruit? (BRF) [Re: KatuXiK]
#18910082 - 09/30/13 06:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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on my First grow like you too and also plan to increasing yield like you too . I am plan to use mono tub coir tek 50/50 with rate of spawn is 1:1 (spawn/sub) . I from my research is sterilization your substrate before mixing with spawn and always keep it clean with very well gas exchange tub with high humidity would help . more substrate than spawn would take more time for mycelium to fully colonize in tub which contamination can across in during this period of time
really not a pro here but done some research and hope I can help same fellow newbies on shroomery
here is the link that would help you more understand about this mono tub tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18657404#18657404
-------------------- Hello I'm new to shroom but I am hardcore 420 : )
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Spawn or fruit? (BRF) [Re: KatuXiK]
#18910084 - 09/30/13 06:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's doable and I am all for experimemtation. It's just that by spawning brf to bulk substrate material you open several vectors for contamination.
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KatuXiK


Registered: 09/19/13
Posts: 175
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Re: Spawn or fruit? (BRF) [Re: hamloaf]
#18910101 - 09/30/13 06:22 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Can I do it safely with coir and gypsum? It's my understanding that coir is very contam resistant, though I'm obviously no expert on the subject.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Spawn or fruit? (BRF) [Re: KatuXiK]
#18910105 - 09/30/13 06:24 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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cakes don't give much more fruits as bulk. Their optimal use is birth as cakes.
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Spawn or fruit? (BRF) [Re: KatuXiK]
#18910114 - 09/30/13 06:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It can be done with any substrate material so long as the substrate material is prepared correctly. Coir is pretty hard to fuck up the preparation of so spawning to coir would be, imo, your safest bet as far as substrate material. Break up the cakes inside of a ziplock baggie to minimize the handling of the cakes. Grains break up easier and without handling.
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KatuXiK


Registered: 09/19/13
Posts: 175
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Re: Spawn or fruit? (BRF) [Re: hamloaf]
#18910121 - 09/30/13 06:34 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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So how much do say, 5 cakes yield as cakes vs 5 cakes as 1:1 or 1:2?
Quote:
superknoty said: on my First grow like you too and also plan to increasing yield like you too . I am plan to use mono tub coir tek 50/50 with rate of spawn is 1:1 (spawn/sub) . I from my research is sterilization your substrate before mixing with spawn and always keep it clean with very well gas exchange tub with high humidity would help . more substrate than spawn would take more time for mycelium to fully colonize in tub which contamination can across in during this period of time
really not a pro here but done some research and hope I can help same fellow newbies on shroomery
here is the link that would help you more understand about this mono tub tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18657404#18657404
Dude that's awesome, thanks for the link! I wasn't finding anything like that earlier when I was looking around on here.
Quote:
hamloaf said: It can be done with any substrate material so long as the substrate material is prepared correctly. Coir is pretty hard to fuck up the preparation of so spawning to coir would be, imo, your safest bet as far as substrate material. Break up the cakes inside of a ziplock baggie to minimize the handling of the cakes. Grains break up easier and without handling.
Yeah I know to break up the cakes, and I really wish I would've gone with popcorn, as it's my understanding that it's the only grain you can steam sterilize effectively, correct? So if I see no signs of possible contaminants, and prepare the coir correctly, I should be okay to do this?
Edited by KatuXiK (09/30/13 06:35 AM)
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Spawn or fruit? (BRF) [Re: KatuXiK]
#18910130 - 09/30/13 06:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't know about the popcorn. I've never done that and wouldn't trust it seeing as how sterilization temperature isn't reached with steam alone. Get and use a pressure cooker to sterilize grains.
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KatuXiK


Registered: 09/19/13
Posts: 175
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Re: Spawn or fruit? (BRF) [Re: hamloaf]
#18910163 - 09/30/13 07:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It was my understanding that you just let it go 2 hours, keeping an eye on the water level. And part of the reason I want to do this is because I only ordered 1 syringe, so I'd like to have a large yield to tide me over!
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superknoty

Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 39
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Spawn or fruit? (BRF) [Re: KatuXiK]
#18910202 - 09/30/13 07:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would go with 1:1 ratio faster that way and less chance for contamination also from my understanding right now dept is not really than matter unless you plan to do it less than 2" deep
really good info from this link http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/8669054
hope I can help
-------------------- Hello I'm new to shroom but I am hardcore 420 : )
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KatuXiK


Registered: 09/19/13
Posts: 175
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Re: Spawn or fruit? (BRF) [Re: superknoty]
#18911685 - 09/30/13 03:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Awesome, yeah thanks for that link dude! I'm hoping to do 1 or 2 pints, and leave 1 jar out just in case I seriously fuck something up. Right now I have no sides of contam in 4 jars, and 1 jar is slightly yellowed, and I mean slightly. I may even only do 1 pint of substrate, the possibly contam'd one as I'm sure if one contams, chances are good that another will as well. I'd do an outdoor grow, but I don't know my landlords habits very well, or if the weather would even support that right now.
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KatuXiK


Registered: 09/19/13
Posts: 175
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Re: Spawn or fruit? (BRF) [Re: KatuXiK]
#18920153 - 10/02/13 09:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, it's getting close to decision time and I'm still not sure what I want to do. I've got 1 jar at 90%, 1 jar at 80%, and 3 around 60%. Is the yield from 5 jars going to be more than 20g dried if I don't spawn to bulk? Or if I want that much of a yield do I need to spawn to bulk?
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