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Offlinegeazerpleaser
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invert fruiting
    #18907143 - 09/29/13 01:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Ive been growing some p. cubensis's (thai tanic) and one of the bfr cakes has two fruits growing inside the jar, so I was wondering if I should still dunk it and roll it with the others or just put it in the fruiting chamber?

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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: invert fruiting [Re: geazerpleaser]
    #18907221 - 09/29/13 01:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I'd dunk it and sprinkle it with vermiculite rather than roll it.

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OfflineCircle K
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Re: invert fruiting [Re: Psilicon]
    #18907292 - 09/29/13 02:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Give them a good roll, before you fruit them. The science isn't all too easy for me to wrap my head around myself, but it goes off of the myc needing to colonize just a bit more, to break that dry verm layer (It acts as a kind of casing, helps your cakes ease into the environment.

Post plenty of pics, I want to see how this turns out.


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: invert fruiting [Re: Circle K]
    #18907322 - 09/29/13 02:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

That's incorrect.  It has more to do with the very high humidity in the small cracks between the vermiculite and the cake.  A high RH coupled with good FAE is what causes pinning.

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Offlinegeazerpleaser
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Re: invert fruiting [Re: Circle K]
    #18907473 - 09/29/13 03:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Circle K said:
Give them a good roll, before you fruit them. The science isn't all too easy for me to wrap my head around myself, but it goes off of the myc needing to colonize just a bit more, to break that dry verm layer (It acts as a kind of casing, helps your cakes ease into the environment.

Post plenty of pics, I want to see how this turns out.





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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: invert fruiting [Re: Psilicon]
    #18909593 - 09/30/13 12:24 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
A high RH coupled with good FAE is what causes pinning.



Humidity has little to do with pinning....

It has more to do with full colonization and FAE, and evaporation...

Humidity will come with FAE and evaporation normally.

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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: invert fruiting [Re: PussyFart]
    #18909626 - 09/30/13 12:40 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I strongly disagree, and I think humidity plays a big role in it.

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: invert fruiting [Re: Psilicon]
    #18909644 - 09/30/13 12:46 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
I strongly disagree, and I think humidity plays a big role in it.



Ok, google it.

You cannot have condensation without a temperature differential.

Even if the humidity is only 10-20%, with a temperature difference there would still be condensation.

Think of taking a can of beer out of the fridge.

In 5 minutes it is going to be soaked....is this from the humidity levels in your house, or the temperature difference?

Or how about the house windows in the winter....do they get "fogged up" from the humidity, or from the temperature?

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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: invert fruiting [Re: PussyFart]
    #18909672 - 09/30/13 12:57 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I have Googled it, and I do thoroughly understand the concept.  And we've had the beer argument before, and I suggest we take this to where I anticipated you'd bring it up again and gave a response.

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InvisibleGretchenmeister
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Re: invert fruiting [Re: PussyFart]
    #18909708 - 09/30/13 01:12 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

van der griegen said:
I strongly disagree, and I think humidity plays a big role in it.



Ok, google it.

You cannot have condensation without a temperature differential.

Even if the humidity is only 10-20%, with a temperature difference there would still be condensation.

Think of taking a can of beer out of the fridge.

In 5 minutes it is going to be soaked....is this from the humidity levels in your house, or the temperature difference?

Or how about the house windows in the winter....do they get "fogged up" from the humidity, or from the temperature?




I kinda disagree with this commonly known as the "can of coke" theory hehe. I agree that temp dif will cause moisture on the outside of a container (window etc), however inside a closed container you have something creating its own water cycle. Condensation inside a jar, or an fc for that matter, is not comparable to droplets forming on the exterior surface of a cold can of coke...or the likes.  What causes moisture droplets inside a jar or fc is evaporation, then saturation of the air within occurs, and droplets form.

When a cold can of coke sits out in the air, moisture from the air is condensed (water particles are drawn closer together) near the cold surface.  If you had a hot surface, the moisture content would be less near or on the surface, because warm/hot expands particles, therefore there would be less air particles and less moisture.  So when you have the cold factor, you simply have moisture being pulled from the air ,and collecting on the can. 

And I see the word "evaporation" thrown around lots in place of what technically should be referred to as "transpiration". Not only is H2O transpired as a gas, but also CO2, so saying only evaporation of water is somewhat "off", but trendy around the Shroomery Boards.
_______

Now about pinning factors...

Going back to the bible of cultivation, notes on pinning triggers from TMC. (paraphrased)

Fresh Air- Fresh air increases the rate that gasses transpire from the substrate. It would not be completely correct to say that evaporation of water from the substrate triggers pinning. However, carbon dioxide and water in the form of vapor are the two primary gasses known to transpire from the surface of the substrate. Increasing fresh air increases the rate of transpiration of gasses from you substrate. Fresh air will provide a rapid drop in naturally occurring C02 gas, this is why we do not want to provide full fresh air exchange during colonization phases of mushroom cultivation.

Relative Humidity -(rH) Maintaining a rH of 85% for bulk and casings, and 95% for cakes will promote pin formation.

Light- Light is known to trigger pinning.



Temperature Drop -A ten degree drop from incubation temperatures has proven to help instigate pinning.


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