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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
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Mistaken
#18909403 - 09/29/13 11:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was out driving around the city and I had this deep calm settle over me. I say deep calm because it worked its way down beyond the physical as seen in a relaxed body. It worked beyond the conscious as seen in having clear and lucid thoughts. It seemed to seep right into the unconscious. I wasn't fully cognizant of just how calm I was for quite some time.
And then I was sitting down eating and I started to analyze the last few hours a little bit. I started thinking about how relaxing it had been and how wonderful it had felt, despite all the chaos that comes with the experience of driving around the city on the weekend. And I realized something. What I had originally taken as simply being in the flow and not fighting it, I then saw as something quite different. I saw that I had been feeling so relaxed, so at ease, that I hadn't wanted to focus on anything else. And so mentally there was no grasping at any of the external events spinning around me. They just spun freely. It wasn't that I was in the flow, it's that I wasn't paying any of the events around me any mind.
I do think in this case "not paying any mind" is an apt description. There was no mental absorption. No toll was paid, no investment made. No trying to make it this way or that. There was absolutely nothing to try and impute a will upon, and so no reason to act.
Of course actions happened. But like I said I wasn't fully cognizant of them until later. It's like the part of me that analyzes kicked back into gear at this point and began looking at what had just taken place. Where before there wasn't any thing in particular taking place at all, suddenly it had meaning and importance. And that's where the relaxation started to fade.
And this conclusion came to me: I often mistake going with the flow with many positive things. To name a few: relaxation, happiness, and positive outcomes. But this isn't the case. What I have been mistaking for "going with the flow", is instead a bi-product of a single-pointed focus on the things I like. Namely, when relaxation appears, I'm happy to just look at that and not worry about anything else. It's as if mission accomplished, whatever else is going on is fine as long as this relaxation is there to look at. Or mission accomplished, I'm happy, who cares about the rest?
And conversely, when what I don't like is present, my engagement with my environment becomes more neurotic. More jerky, more analytical and taken apart. And my guess as to why this is, is because I want something to blame and also something to help aid me in getting back to relaxation, or back to happiness, or back "in the flow" which I now see doesn't exist as I had conceptualized prior.
Anyways, I've emerged with a new lens to look at my positive emotions through. And I'm very glad to have been able to see through what I consider a mistaken idea of being in the flow.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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crkhd
☾☼☽

Registered: 12/28/08
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Re: Mistaken [Re: Kickle]
#18909905 - 09/30/13 03:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Relaxation comes from parasympathetic nervous system engagement, basically. That's the tangible aspect.
On the deepest level, it's an alignment of your entire Self, like when you get two mirrors opposing each other and get the reflection of the reflection of the reflection to center into itself, and there is that kind of endless circle within a circle effect.
The subconscious is aligned with the conscious, and both of these are aligned with the deeper layer of the unconscious.
Here's one issue. We're all trying to guide each other, to happiness in some way, at least when we're generally sharing Life. I notice two or perhaps three modes. A happy person shares what made them happy. A hurt person shares their hurt: either to hurt others, or to be healed, this is left to the flutter of the wind. And then we have the standard somnolesence, heyhowareyouimfinethankyouwhataboutyouyeahimfinetoothanks.
You can almost never quite be sure what a zen master is trying to say especially when they are in teaching mode. To try to guide someone else or shatter their mind to open to the truth requires a certain kind of 'trickery' or 'riddle' or lateral thinking. One mode of the mind is 'closing in' towards an answer. Another mode of the mind, is 'opening up' towards the bigger picture - 'beginner mind'/don't-know. Then Flow might be described as the ability to abide in 'opening up' and gently 'close in' every so often when necessary.
The problem is that we 'close in' way too much - "I have the Truth, here it is". The issue with that is that if you are going to close in, you have to do it with 100% perfect precision. Otherwise there is "too little" or "too much" and these leftover parts are the seeds for the new karmas.
You know when you say something clearly true and recieved loud and clear. There is a kind of thwack to a hi-five or a firmness to a handshake, or a gentle 'ah' of a sigh, the sigh of blissful realisation, which we collectively share in the moment. Interestingly I have an EEG headset right now which measures 'attention' and 'meditation'. When I enter into such a mode of operation the thing really lights up and says "you're doing it right"!
So it's all regarding the two halves of the body, the ida/pingala, left/right. The two forks of the sympathetic nervous system (the "GET UP AND GO"). They orbit the Parasympathetic nervous system (the "just did something heavy, sit and relax and soak in the comfort". The issue perhaps is confusing 'flow' with heavy activity of one fork to the exception of the other. Flow is actually abiding in the Parasympathetic/Sushumna/Central channel (Open-Mind/Don'tKnow/Beginner Mind) then firing whichever side of the sympathetic as is necessary, rather than "hey let's try that and hope for the best" which can often become a "hold my beer and watch this".
All in all: ultimate laziness. If you don't have to move, don't move. If you feel suffering, you need to move in some way shape or form. If you feel suffering and you are in motion, you need to stop and relax. Every which way to give yourself permission to relax, be warm, kind, caring.
From Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience by Mihaly Csikzentmihalyi
-------------------- "Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern." "THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker "If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific
Edited by crkhd (09/30/13 04:04 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Mistaken [Re: Kickle]
#18910053 - 09/30/13 05:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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When I get into a flow state my thinking about anything diminishes greatly. I'm not sure what you mean by flow state?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



Registered: 07/31/09
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Loc: magic sugarcastle
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Here's a "technical" description for flow from the book I'm currently reading ("Emotional Intelligence" by Daniel Goleman):
Quote:
Flow is a state of self-forgetfulness, the opposite of rumination and worry; instead of being lost in nervous preoccupation, people in flow are so absorbed in the task at hand that they lose all self-consciousness... In this sense moments of flow are egoless. Paradoxically, people in flow exhibit a masterly control of what they are doing, their response perfectly attuned to the changing demands of the task. And although people perform at their peak while in flow, they are unconcerned with how they are doing, with thoughts of success or failure - the sheer pleasure of the act itself is what motivates them.
...
There seems to be a feedback loop at the gateway to this zome: it can require considerable effort to get calm and focused enough to begin the task - this first step takes some discipline. But once focus starts to lock in, it takes on a force of its own, both offering relief from emotional turbulence and making the task effortless. Entry to this zone can also occur when people find a task they are skilled at, and engage in it at a level that slightly taxes their ability.
The book says that "being able to enter flow is emotional intelligence at its best; flow represents perhaps the ultimate in harnessing the emotions in the service of performance and learning." I think this could speak to what's said here:
Quote:
Kickle said: And conversely, when what I don't like is present, my engagement with my environment becomes more neurotic. More jerky, more analytical and taken apart. And my guess as to why this is, is because I want something to blame and also something to help aid me in getting back to relaxation, or back to happiness, or back "in the flow" which I now see doesn't exist as I had conceptualized prior.
I can see how being overly taxed by environmental pressures would cause a disconnect from someone from reaching flow in daily, mundane tasks. I see this in my own life. I think it turns on the "threat" signal in the brain, and that seems to be incompatible with entering flow. Maybe that's where Buddhist monks have an upper-hand - they no longer perceive threats because of their conception of reality.
Just want to throw out there, since we're on the topic, that the theory of flow can help improve the quality of education. Children's natural aptitude would first be established, and then lessons would be tailored according to the child's level of mastery. Since a child would more easily enter flow in a domain he is skilled and flow is an intrinsic reward system more compelling than the current extrinsic punishment/reward system, it stands to reason this is the most natural and supportive way to learn.
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full blown human
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FishOilTheKid
Ascended


Registered: 11/14/10
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Flow states really make time relative IME.
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
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Quote:
Icelander said: When I get into a flow state my thinking about anything diminishes greatly. I'm not sure what you mean by flow state?
I think this is what I'm trying to say. I originally viewed it like this:
becoming one with the flow (of life) = happiness, relaxation, positive outcomes
where as now I view it more like this:
happiness, relaxation, and the occurrence of positive outcomes = lack of concern and subsequent sensation of flow
From this most recent experience it seems to me that it was a lack of concern for anything happening that allowed that sense of seamlessly flowing to take place. And that lack of concern was brought about by being perfectly content to be relaxed. There was nothing better "out there" than what I was already experiencing, and so what was happening "out there" was never considered in any meaningful manner. And because it wasn't invested in mentally, it could occur in whatever way it was, uninhibited. Resulting in a later perception of "flow".
And this difference strikes me as important because of what it suggests about my relationship with different emotional states. In my original view, getting into the flow was something outside of myself that resulted in positive emotions and outcomes. In this new view, getting into the flow is directly related to how important I see what is around me and that seems directly related to how much I like what I see inside. The more I am happy with what I see inside, the less I care about what's going on around me, and the more likely it is that I don't grasp at any of those events.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Mistaken [Re: Kickle]
#18911068 - 09/30/13 12:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well I used to get into a flow state quite easily when I was studying pottery and throwing pots on a wheel. The concentration was intense and little room for thought. After an hour or two on a wheel I felt renewed. However I don't think I was actually looking inside myself so I'm not sure what you mean.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
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I mean there was nothing externally appealing for me about driving around the city in heavy traffic, or going into crowded buildings, or shelling out money for goods. Yet at the same time there was something internally great going on. I'm saying that external and internal don't necessarily link up as expected and in those cases it points to the internal being the important piece.
That's not to say that external events cannot or do not influence internal states. It's to say that I now believe it is the internal state and preoccupation with it which results in flow, not the external event(s).
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Mistaken [Re: Kickle]
#18911190 - 09/30/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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well they are connected in some way however. Unless you can get to that state without external stimulation.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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