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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #18903333 - 09/28/13 03:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

No I don't see it like that, there are many groups of people in Syria fighting a secular democratic state, its the very reason for the revolution itself, it cant be helped that assholes hijacked, infact a lot of groups are turning on Jabhat al Nusra and ISIS, and their is a campaign increasing in Syria "saying Al Qaeda doesn't represent our revolution" Syria has always been a progressive middle eastern country, never has their really been ethnic tension in this country and Christians,Druze, Shiite, and Sunni have lived in relative peace for centuries. I don't think the Syrian want to be marred in perpetual warfare, think Northern Ireland, revolutions have a habit of moving to sectarian lines. However peace can be made, im sure till the good Friday agreement in 1998 that the (P)IRA would ever think of being at peace with the Ulster Freedom Front or some other group.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #18903520 - 09/28/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Assad already was relatively secular.  I also think you are completely wrong about groups turning on the whackjobs.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303796404579096782311389904.html

Quote:

Some of the most powerful units in the Syrian insurgency have rejected the leadership of the main Western-backed opposition political group, calling for a reorganization of rebels and activists in Syria under Islamic law.

The statement was signed by 13 rebel groups, including Jabhat al-Nusra, a U.S.-designated terrorist group, and factions that are part of the Western-backed Free Syrian Army alliance.

It was the first time the FSA rebels appeared to ally with al-Nusra at the risk of alienating their Western benefactors.




Scum.  All of them.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #18904448 - 09/28/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
It would be different if some truly secular, freedom loving, revolutionaries with some sort of  a substantial percentage of the population were fighting for equality. This is obviously not the case.




Actually it is the case.  You just don't hear about the normal people because it's not as newsworthy as some dickhead eating some already dead guy's heart (and really, who gives a shit about that)...


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #18906620 - 09/29/13 11:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

They may be living in the country but they sure aren't doing much of the fighting.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18908488 - 09/29/13 07:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They may be living in the country but they sure aren't doing much of the fighting.




It's easy to get the perception that that's the case because of the number of articles about some crazy shit happening vs. the number of articles about regular people who are doing the same thing that any one of us would do (with the probable exception of certain scumbags who I won't name *cough.cough.shins.cough*)

If you ignore all the Syrian university students who are as Muslim as I am Christian, their families, and the scientists, engineers, teachers, and other educated, pretty-damn-secular-for-the-Arab-world people, there are still the Kurds. 

I really don't get the idea that either there are no normal people in Syria, that they are all pansies who gladly suffer a dictatorship, or that they would just bail out at the first sign of trouble.  Especially when it seems like they're the ones who started this whole party in the first place.

Some form of the above has been so common that I took an unpaid leave of absence from work earlier this year and went to Syria to find out for myself if it was full of shit-bags.  Turns out it isn't.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: ChuangTzu] * 2
    #18908541 - 09/29/13 07:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I have no doubt that there are normal human beings there.  I have no reason to believe that they are seriously involved in the fighting or that anything good for them will come from this.  Semi-secular scumbag dictator or batshit loon Islamist.  That seems to be the paradigm.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #18909213 - 09/29/13 09:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Chang there may have been legit protests in the very beginning but It was quickly siezed upon by foreign opportunists with agendas.  From very early on this is what happened.  My beef is that it was infiltrated and siezed upon by violent terrorists and mercinaries supplied by foreign countries with geo political agendas.  Any legit protest was gone very early on and infiltrated into a violent attempt at foreign backed regime change.  Syria has been on the card for decades and foreign influences jumped on it to try and impliment their geo strategic plans.  It has not been about peacful protest issues for a long time now, these rebels who are fighting arw not part of that,  they are mostly foreign terrorist invaders attacking a relatively moderate country.

How can you call me things cheng when you support al qaeda?  I think its outragous that you think I'm bad because I'm against foreign al qaeda jihadis taking over syria!  Get a grip!


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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OfflineCircle K
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18909559 - 09/30/13 12:01 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I have no doubt that there are normal human beings there.  I have no reason to believe that they are seriously involved in the fighting or that anything good for them will come from this.  Semi-secular scumbag dictator or batshit loon Islamist.  That seems to be the paradigm.




Beat me to it. It kills me to see this many people just trying to get through life in the middle of things. Sucks when kids die, but that's just a portion of all the shit that's going down.


--------------------
Hold on tight, to your dream!

Unless you have shoeboxes, then hold onto those.

Head down to the store, buy some butterfly clips, dub tub your jars, forget about them, move to Kensington, buy a boat you only ever keep in your driveway, become a Pinterest administrator, sell dollar store mugs with rhinestones hot glued all over them.



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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #18909709 - 09/30/13 01:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
, pretty-damn-secular-for-the-Arab-world people, there are still the Kurds.



Yeah under the Iron fist of the Assads. Kinda like how Egypt was pretty damn secular under Mubarak, Iraq under Saddam.

What always happens when the strongman starts to fall? Sand niggers that carry the disease called Islam start murdering people along sectarian lines, burning churches down, etc...

Do you deny there is a sectarian aspect to the war? With the opposing sides fighting for power?

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
that they are all pansies who gladly suffer a dictatorship


 
It's a historical fact that they were, and that they did just that for longer then I've been alive

As muslim as you are Christian? Of course some are, but percentages of the population are what matter in discussions such as this one. You're not honestly trying to imply that a majority of people in that region don't take their religion seriously are you?

If Islam is followed correctly by adherents in Muslim nations it is a form of government.

Islam is inconducive with freedom

Islam is inconducive with equality

Islam is a disease that the world would be better off if it were eradicated, but it's not going anywhere anytime soon because a great many people in that region love their disease, so much so they will happily infect  their own offspring with it


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #18909725 - 09/30/13 01:24 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

whoa, Simplicity, you've changed your hair or something?


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: Shins]
    #18913111 - 09/30/13 08:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Any legit protest was gone very early on and infiltrated into a violent attempt at foreign backed regime change. 




I saw legit non-violent protests still happening on a large scale in Aleppo earlier this year.  They still happen every Friday.

Quote:


How can you call me things cheng when you support al qaeda? 




In what way do I support al qaeda???


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #18913140 - 09/30/13 08:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Sand niggers




This is where I almost stop reading...

Quote:


Do you deny there is a sectarian aspect to the war? With the opposing sides fighting for power?




I don't deny that at all.  I've said it myself multiple times.

Quote:


It's a historical fact that they were, and that they did just that for longer then I've been alive




How long have you been alive?  The last uprising in Syria was in the 80s when the senior Assad killed 10s of thousands of Syrians in less than a month.  That kind of shit puts a damper on dissent for a while.

Quote:

You're not honestly trying to imply that a majority of people in that region don't take their religion seriously are you?




No, I'm just not selling out the minority.

Quote:


If Islam is followed correctly by adherents in Muslim nations it is a form of government.





Correctly according to you.


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #18928911 - 10/03/13 11:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Sand niggers




This is where I almost stop reading...

Quote:


Do you deny there is a sectarian aspect to the war? With the opposing sides fighting for power?




I don't deny that at all.  I've said it myself multiple times.

Quote:


It's a historical fact that they were, and that they did just that for longer then I've been alive




How long have you been alive?  The last uprising in Syria was in the 80s when the senior Assad killed 10s of thousands of Syrians in less than a month.  That kind of shit puts a damper on dissent for a while.

Quote:

You're not honestly trying to imply that a majority of people in that region don't take their religion seriously are you?




No, I'm just not selling out the minority.

Quote:


If Islam is followed correctly by adherents in Muslim nations it is a form of government.





Correctly according to you.




Actually correctly according to the Koran. You can disagree with what I say about Islam, but disagreeing with what the book that Islam is based on says about Islam....

Well that would just be fucking stupid now wouldn't it?


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #18933331 - 10/04/13 09:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Actually correctly according to the Koran. You can disagree with what I say about Islam, but disagreeing with what the book that Islam is based on says about Islam....





There are more interpretations of what is written in the koran than there are Muslims in the world.  Just like hardly any Christians stone their neighbors to death when they collect wood on the Sabbath...

Stop being a douche.


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #18933768 - 10/04/13 11:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Actually correctly according to the Koran. You can disagree with what I say about Islam, but disagreeing with what the book that Islam is based on says about Islam....





There are more interpretations of what is written in the koran than there are Muslims in the world.  Just like hardly any Christians stone their neighbors to death when they collect wood on the Sabbath...

Stop being a douche.




Christians are fucking retarded too, they just tend to populate areas that have better governments with more regard to human rights, religious freedom, equality for women etc...

Besides your confusing Christians for Jews. Christian scripture (New Testament) teaches turning the other cheek etc...They don't follow jewish law.

Your ignorance of the different Abrahamic religions scriptures and law is not my problem.

Besides countries' track records on human rights where Islamists reign speak for themselves

You can try and pass off the lie of Islam being moderate, or peace loving on some ignorant fool, but I happen to know better.

Their history (especially recent), their scripture, their culture, the situation of woman homosexuals & peoples outside  the "people of the book" tells quite a different story.

You can side with a group like that as much as you please just don't expect me to swallow that bullshit and join you.

I have spent more time in muslim countries then I care to remember. Never returning to another. Muslims are disgusting mentally diseased animals regardless of ethnicity


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


Edited by Simplicitry (10/04/13 11:25 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #18935295 - 10/05/13 09:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

They tend to populate areas with better government?  They CREATE areas with better government.

All men are not created equal in ability.  They are only equal under the law and have equal rights.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #18935370 - 10/05/13 09:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Christians are fucking retarded too,




No shit.

Quote:


Besides your confusing Christians for Jews.




No I'm not.  I'm saying that something being in or not being in a holy book doesn't mean it is or isn't followed by any particular proponent of that religion.  That's fucking retarded.

Quote:


Besides countries' track records on human rights where Islamists reign speak for themselves




Right, because nations predominately populated by Christians have always been bastions of morality.

Quote:


You can try and pass off the lie of Islam being moderate, or peace loving on some ignorant fool, but I happen to know better.




Islam isn't moderate, conservative, or what-the-fuck-ever.  People tend to be.  And some people who would call themselves Muslim don't give a fuck about the stuff you think they do.

Quote:


Their history (especially recent), their scripture, their culture, the situation of woman homosexuals & peoples outside  the "people of the book" tells quite a different story.




You're conflating an image of an entire group of people with the values of every single one of the individuals in that group.  Pure bullshit.  That black guy you've never seen before in your life is a crack-smoking rapist, right?

Quote:


You can side with a group like that as much as you please just don't expect me to swallow that bullshit and join you.




I'm not siding with any groups here and I don't care if you swallow anything or not.


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18935493 - 10/05/13 10:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They tend to populate areas with better government?  They CREATE areas with better government.

All men are not created equal in ability.  They are only equal under the law and have equal rights.




I know that, but I was trying to avoid giving Chuang more of tangent to go off on. We weren't discussing Christians, we were discussing Islam, and I want to stay on point


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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InvisibleSimplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Male


Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
Re: As Far As Obama Speech About Syria...... [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #18935636 - 10/05/13 10:58 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
No I'm not.  I'm saying that something being in or not being in a holy book doesn't mean it is or isn't followed by any



You assigned Jewish Law to Christians, off point but still your mistake. My impression of you "but Christians, but Christians, but Christians!" Only problem is we weren't discussing Christians. I guess anything but staying point is desirable when you're defending a group with such a treacherous recent track record on oppression, human rights, sexism, and corruption.
Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Right, because nations predominately populated by Christians have always been bastions of morality.



Christians! Christians! Christians! Again try to stay on point we're talking about Islam.
Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Islam isn't moderate, conservative, or what-the-fuck-ever.  People tend to be.  And some people who would call themselves Muslim don't give a fuck about the stuff you think they do.




Are saying groups can't be moderate or extreme? Conservative or Liberal? Cause if so that's fucking stupid

I've educated myself extensively on Islam. I've educated myself extensively on governments in the Middle East. I never said anything about what this individual or that individual cares about. I said percentages of the population are what matter. Their societal norms matter. Their historical track record matters. You can choose to blind yourself from these facts but I'm not fucking blind
Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
You're conflating an image of an entire group of people with the values of every single one of the individuals in that group.  Pure bullshit.  That black guy you've never seen before in your life is a crack-smoking rapist, right?




People like you who appear to live in a fantasy world don't like to admit it but black males are more likely to smoke crack or commit violent crimes percentage wise

Again, I said
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
As muslim as you are Christian? Of course some are, but percentages of the population are what matter in discussions such as this one. You're not honestly trying to imply that a majority of people in that region don't take their religion seriously are you?



Nice Strawman, please try again. 

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
I'm not siding with any groups here and I don't care if you swallow anything or not.



it seems like you're trying very hard to protect a group that lacks religious freedom, women's rights, gay rights, and just generally has terrible track record when it comes to tolerance, freedom, and basic human rights.

Keep up the good fight! :facepalm:


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


Edited by Simplicitry (10/05/13 01:00 PM)


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