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ZenLife


Registered: 08/18/13
Posts: 62
Loc: Here & There to & From
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Bulk Growing
#18907015 - 09/29/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I will be moving into the exciting world of bulk growing after some very successful runs with BRF Cakes. I have a AA 25x Autoclave and a laminar flow hood to progress with this awesome hobby. There is so many methods and I would like to ask the experienced bulk growers to which method I should be focusing. There is a ton of methods on our board and I am not sure which is the preferred updated method of our bulk growers. And so I would like to know if I should be focusing on a Greenhouse, Monotubs, Manure or Coir, Agar or LC's, and the type of grain (WBS, Rye, etc). I would prefer not to go buying all these things to try all the various methods but rather use the knowledge of our brothers and sisters who have paved the way. Much thanks for your time and advice for honing in my focus and helping out.
PS I had purchased a copy of Let's Grow Mushrooms from RR and will be watching both DVD's soon.
Zen
Edited by ZenLife (09/29/13 01:00 PM)
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InTheBiggun
The Milk-Man



Registered: 06/01/09
Posts: 200
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Bulk Growing [Re: ZenLife]
#18907120 - 09/29/13 01:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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One of the best ways you can build up your bulk, is to master the art of making grain spawn. You start by making up nice colonized jars of grain and then in clean area inject clean water into each shaken jar, shake more, suck out thick mycelium syringes. Now you can inoculate many jars of grain with the GLC and they will colonize lightning fast. One jar of milked GLC can inoculate a whole lot of grain jars!
It saves a lot of time and allows you to have fresh, non-tired mycelium going into your bulk projects.
Just an idea...
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Bulk Growing [Re: ZenLife]
#18907250 - 09/29/13 01:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Most of the big shots these days do multiple monotubs of coir/verm or massive outdoor grows in manure beds. Grain spawn is essential for either, but G2G is the preferred method of propagation, rather than GLC.
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InTheBiggun
The Milk-Man



Registered: 06/01/09
Posts: 200
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Bulk Growing [Re: Psilicon]
#18907386 - 09/29/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
but G2G is the preferred method of propagation, rather than GLC.
Could you explain that a bit ...
I have done many side by side experiments with "GLC" - mycelium syringes vs G2G jars. The main thing I learned doing that dozens of times is that thick mycelium syringes always are much faster colonizing when going head-to-head with G2G. I've even tried heavy ratio G2G vs. 10cc thick mycelium syringe and the GLC won handily.
It's not just speed though. There's other aspects to it. When you do G2G a couple of times you have uneven-aged grains in the jars. Even the first transfer now has an old and a new grain in it. Now when you spawn that to bulk awhile later there is going to be an older , drier portion of the grain and the newer stuff. I'm not saying that is going to be a problem ... but it could lead to more chance of getting a contam. If you do a second G2G you will have even more uneven-aged grains in the mix.
When you milk the GLC jars of mycelium , you are getting it from fresh , non-aged grain. As soon as you're done the milked grains explode with mycelium and recovery within 24 hours , at which point you can milk them again , and again.
Here's a side-by-side of GLC milk vs heavy ratio G2G on popcorn

On the left is heavy G2G , Middle is 10CC GLC milk , right is 5CC GLC milk
This is after four days in quart-sized jars with room to shake. Even though the G2G took off first , the fact that the 10CC mycelium syringe dispersed mycelium literally everywhere in the jar caused it to explode with growth after 24+ hours. The beauty of 10CC mycelium syringes , is that you just shoot the whole thing into each jar and then shake well. Real simple. With quart jars of properly prepared grains , injecting 10CC of extra mycelium water is not an issue.
Here's what the 10CC GLC jar looks like after 24 hours:

So one jar of colonized grain that is milked for mycelium syringes can quickly make many jars , that colonize very quickly and then can be used to spawn all kinds of different bulk projects ... is all I was getting at.
Not trying to put down G2G , or say GLC/mycelium syringes are better , just that they are good and fast (even faster than G2G in my experience).GLC's have their place as good tools for the hobby.
Edited by InTheBiggun (09/29/13 02:39 PM)
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SupaThaRipper
Genetics Hoarder



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 1,504
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 hour, 15 seconds
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An "advanced" Martha tek for the chamber is what I do but I see more people using monotubs. Rye berry for grain is top of the line. Lc arent worth the effort to most people. I still use them but agar is preferred of course. Coir and manure is great together imo.
Theres a great step by step guide by str0be from shroomology... but idk if its against the forum rules to post the link here :o
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Quote:
InTheBiggun said: Could you explain that a bit ...
Unfortunately, no. I haven't ever touched GLC, and can't say firsthand why it isn't as popular. But keep in mind that I didn't say G2G is better: I said it was preferred, specifically by most of the big shots here. Maybe if we're lucky some of them will weigh in.
Thanks for the info and pics on GLC, though. Those are some very cool shots there.
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Cb411
New grower



Registered: 08/03/13
Posts: 110
Loc: New York new york
Last seen: 8 years, 11 days
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Re: Bulk Growing [Re: Psilicon]
#18907766 - 09/29/13 04:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17897163#17897163
Read and Bookmark this link it will help a lot and its very thorough and up to date.
-------------------- "Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs. "
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ZenLife


Registered: 08/18/13
Posts: 62
Loc: Here & There to & From
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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*
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ZenLife


Registered: 08/18/13
Posts: 62
Loc: Here & There to & From
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Quote:
InTheBiggun said:
Quote:
but G2G is the preferred method of propagation, rather than GLC.
Could you explain that a bit ...
I have done many side by side experiments with "GLC" - mycelium syringes vs G2G jars. The main thing I learned doing that dozens of times is that thick mycelium syringes always are much faster colonizing when going head-to-head with G2G. I've even tried heavy ratio G2G vs. 10cc thick mycelium syringe and the GLC won handily.
It's not just speed though. There's other aspects to it. When you do G2G a couple of times you have uneven-aged grains in the jars. Even the first transfer now has an old and a new grain in it. Now when you spawn that to bulk awhile later there is going to be an older , drier portion of the grain and the newer stuff. I'm not saying that is going to be a problem ... but it could lead to more chance of getting a contam. If you do a second G2G you will have even more uneven-aged grains in the mix.
When you milk the GLC jars of mycelium , you are getting it from fresh , non-aged grain. As soon as you're done the milked grains explode with mycelium and recovery within 24 hours , at which point you can milk them again , and again.
Here's a side-by-side of GLC milk vs heavy ratio G2G on popcorn

On the left is heavy G2G , Middle is 10CC GLC milk , right is 5CC GLC milk
This is after four days in quart-sized jars with room to shake. Even though the G2G took off first , the fact that the 10CC mycelium syringe dispersed mycelium literally everywhere in the jar caused it to explode with growth after 24+ hours. The beauty of 10CC mycelium syringes , is that you just shoot the whole thing into each jar and then shake well. Real simple. With quart jars of properly prepared grains , injecting 10CC of extra mycelium water is not an issue.
Here's what the 10CC GLC jar looks like after 24 hours:

So one jar of colonized grain that is milked for mycelium syringes can quickly make many jars , that colonize very quickly and then can be used to spawn all kinds of different bulk projects ... is all I was getting at.
Not trying to put down G2G , or say GLC/mycelium syringes are better , just that they are good and fast (even faster than G2G in my experience).GLC's have their place as good tools for the hobby.
What method are you using with your grain spawn?
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ZenLife


Registered: 08/18/13
Posts: 62
Loc: Here & There to & From
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Quote:
SupaThaRipper said: An "advanced" Martha tek for the chamber is what I do but I see more people using monotubs. Rye berry for grain is top of the line. Lc arent worth the effort to most people. I still use them but agar is preferred of course. Coir and manure is great together imo.
Theres a great step by step guide by str0be from shroomology... but idk if its against the forum rules to post the link here :o
I'll get to researching the Agar as well as watch RR Video. What makes Rye Berry superior? I have been definitely considering the Martha Tek
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ZenLife


Registered: 08/18/13
Posts: 62
Loc: Here & There to & From
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: Bulk Growing [Re: ZenLife]
#18907829 - 09/29/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I had seen some pictures of cubes the size of my forearm grown on horse manure and was wondering if the same results could be achieved by the coir and verm?
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ZenLife


Registered: 08/18/13
Posts: 62
Loc: Here & There to & From
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: Bulk Growing [Re: Cb411]
#18907838 - 09/29/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cb411 said: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17897163#17897163
Read and Bookmark this link it will help a lot and its very thorough and up to date.
Thank you Cb411, I will get to checking out them links.
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Edited by ZenLife (09/29/13 05:25 PM)
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 5,602
Loc: Your mom's vag
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Re: Bulk Growing [Re: ZenLife]
#18908070 - 09/29/13 05:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Generally speaking its a tradeoff. While manure tends to produce more robust fruits, coir is easier to prepare and is more forgiving.
The difference is minimal though especially if you make the coir a bit more complex with additives. For a beginner, I'd recommend coir.
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All mushrooms are edible, but some only once..... Easier than cakes I do science and shit.
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ZenLife


Registered: 08/18/13
Posts: 62
Loc: Here & There to & From
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: Bulk Growing [Re: maddchef]
#18908296 - 09/29/13 06:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
maddchef said: Generally speaking its a tradeoff. While manure tends to produce more robust fruits, coir is easier to prepare and is more forgiving.
The difference is minimal though especially if you make the coir a bit more complex with additives. For a beginner, I'd recommend coir.
Are you using monotubs as well maddchef? What additives do you like to mix with your coir?
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,326
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 1 hour, 24 minutes
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Re: Bulk Growing [Re: ZenLife]
#18908436 - 09/29/13 06:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Zen I have been doing bulk for a little while now and have a lot of success using wbs as grain spawn, using g2g transfers to increase stock culture, and spawning to coir/verm/gypsum in monotubs. It is surprisingly simple once you get all the methods down. I use 66 qt sterilite tubs with 6 qts of fully colonized grain spawn, 1 brick of coir, 2 qts verm, and a handful of gypsum. This mixture gets pasteurized of course. Here are the teks I have been using https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17897163#17897163
As far as the glc vs g2g debate I think it is more personal perferance. A good friend of mine uses nothing but glc and I use nothing but g2g. We are both successful so I say it is whatever you perfer
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ZenLife


Registered: 08/18/13
Posts: 62
Loc: Here & There to & From
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Quote:
psillyshroomer said: Zen I have been doing bulk for a little while now and have a lot of success using wbs as grain spawn, using g2g transfers to increase stock culture, and spawning to coir/verm/gypsum in monotubs. It is surprisingly simple once you get all the methods down. I use 66 qt sterilite tubs with 6 qts of fully colonized grain spawn, 1 brick of coir, 2 qts verm, and a handful of gypsum. This mixture gets pasteurized of course. Here are the teks I have been using https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17897163#17897163
As far as the glc vs g2g debate I think it is more personal perferance. A good friend of mine uses nothing but glc and I use nothing but g2g. We are both successful so I say it is whatever you perfer
Thank you so much for the specifics psillyshroomer, I appreciate it. How many tubs do you work with?
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,326
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 1 hour, 24 minutes
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Re: Bulk Growing [Re: ZenLife]
#18908659 - 09/29/13 07:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just 2. Anymore than that and it becomes too much like work. I just try to have fun with it. I have recently got into playing around with agar and I have been having a blast with it. It really gives you the opportunity to get to know your mycelium. I actually just transferred some shittake cultures a couple hours ago
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ZenLife


Registered: 08/18/13
Posts: 62
Loc: Here & There to & From
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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cool beans
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fungiamongi3
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/13
Posts: 190
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: Bulk Growing [Re: ZenLife]
#18909449 - 09/29/13 11:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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G2g has always been my most productive route
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SupaThaRipper
Genetics Hoarder



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 1,504
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 hour, 15 seconds
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Psillyshroomer nailed it.
As for the rye berry, for the most part it is easier to get the moisture content correct ...although ive done way more work with wbs with plenty success. Wbs is easily obtained as well. Marthas kick ass;)
Good luck!
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Gretchenmeister
Starbeing/Psilocybin Savant



Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 1,032
Loc: From the Stars
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Quote:
InTheBiggun said: One of the best ways you can build up your bulk, is to master the art of making grain spawn. You start by making up nice colonized jars of grain and then in clean area inject clean water into each shaken jar, shake more, suck out thick mycelium syringes. Now you can inoculate many jars of grain with the GLC and they will colonize lightning fast. One jar of milked GLC can inoculate a whole lot of grain jars!
It saves a lot of time and allows you to have fresh, non-tired mycelium going into your bulk projects.
Just an idea...
I do this all the time. Closed container transfer. I like it:) JUST SAYIN!
-------------------- What's wrong with folks? Point your IRC client to irc.socialirc.com, port 6667, #cultivation and #shroomery for live chat with like minded hobbyists and connoisseurs. Mush Porn
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ZenLife


Registered: 08/18/13
Posts: 62
Loc: Here & There to & From
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Quote:
fungiamongi3 said: G2g has always been my most productive route

Quote:
SupaThaRipper said: Psillyshroomer nailed it.
As for the rye berry, for the most part it is easier to get the moisture content correct ...although ive done way more work with wbs with plenty success. Wbs is easily obtained as well. Marthas kick ass;)
Good luck!
Ahh I see. So I think I will try both the G2G and the GLC. So with a Master Grain Quart you can inoculate up to 10 quarts. How many quarts can you inoculate with the GLC from a master quart?
Quote:
Gretchenmeister said:
Quote:
InTheBiggun said: One of the best ways you can build up your bulk, is to master the art of making grain spawn. You start by making up nice colonized jars of grain and then in clean area inject clean water into each shaken jar, shake more, suck out thick mycelium syringes. Now you can inoculate many jars of grain with the GLC and they will colonize lightning fast. One jar of milked GLC can inoculate a whole lot of grain jars!
It saves a lot of time and allows you to have fresh, non-tired mycelium going into your bulk projects.
Just an idea...
I do this all the time. Closed container transfer. I like it:) JUST SAYIN!
So I'm thinking that I will try the horse manure recipe in RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms using Rye Berry Bags. I've seen the sponsors selling the manure already pasteurized. Anyone know perhaps where I may get the unpasteurized manure. Feel free to PM
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