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Offlinewayneshy465
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what do yall think of this for fc
    #18906305 - 09/29/13 09:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)



I made one SG style and the other one has holes in the bottom u think this will work for fc?


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: wayneshy465]
    #18906330 - 09/29/13 09:29 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Shotguns have holes in the bottom, too.  And yeah, it might work, but it seems somewhat less than ideal to me.


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OfflineJamesSpawned
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: Psilicon]
    #18906334 - 09/29/13 09:32 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

These are tried and true, it will definitely work great as long as you keep up on your misting/fanning.


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Offlinewayneshy465
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: JamesSpawned]
    #18906376 - 09/29/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The one has holes drilled in all sides and bottom the other just in the bottom for evaporation


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: wayneshy465]
    #18906377 - 09/29/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You're going to want holes in the sides and top of that one, too.


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Offlinewayneshy465
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: wayneshy465]
    #18906378 - 09/29/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

How much should I mist fan they have been in fc for eight days now


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: wayneshy465]
    #18906379 - 09/29/13 09:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Fan three to five times a day, and while you're doing that look at your cakes.  If they have moisture glistening on the surface, don't mist them.  If they do not, mist them until they glisten again.


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Offlinewayneshy465
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: Psilicon]
    #18906497 - 09/29/13 10:29 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Y won't they fruit its been 16 days since I took them out the jars then they turned blue so I dunked and roll now its been 8 says and nothing I'm thinking about crumbling up my cakes and going bulk what would u do?


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OfflineJamesSpawned
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: Psilicon]
    #18906520 - 09/29/13 10:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
Fan three to five times a day, and while you're doing that look at your cakes.  If they have moisture glistening on the surface, don't mist them.  If they do not, mist them until they glisten again.



This!


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Offlinewayneshy465
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: JamesSpawned]
    #18906593 - 09/29/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

How do I know my rh is good there is always dropplets on the sides


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: wayneshy465]
    #18906843 - 09/29/13 12:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wayneshy465 said:
Y won't they fruit its been 16 days since I took them out the jars then they turned blue so I dunked and roll now its been 8 says and nothing I'm thinking about crumbling up my cakes and going bulk what would u do?




You need to follow the tek's more precisely.
Your first fc was not a fc at all.
And you dunk and roll right after taking them out of the jar,
not 8 days later.
If they dry up and don't do shit after 2-3-4 weeks, you can dunk them again,
but dont roll.
They have been birthed now, if you crumble them all the nasties that have
landed on them for the 16 days out in freedom will contam if you
try to make them colonize more brf.
also, it's better to fruit cakes as cakes, and use grains for spawning to bulk.


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OfflineJamesSpawned
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: spacechildo]
    #18906947 - 09/29/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think he meant spawn to bulk as in a bulk substrate like coir or hpoo. It's probably a little late for that anyways the mycelium is probably getting too old and stressed to recover.


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: wayneshy465]
    #18907193 - 09/29/13 01:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Water droplets inside your fruiting container means your RH is good.


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Offlinewayneshy465
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: Psilicon]
    #18907388 - 09/29/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I only dunked them BC they turned blue do u think they will fruit at all


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Offlinefungiamongi3
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: wayneshy465]
    #18909521 - 09/29/13 11:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Itll do


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: Psilicon]
    #18909607 - 09/30/13 12:29 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
Water droplets inside your fruiting container means your RH is good.



What? No it doesn't.....

The water droplets are either from condensation, or from you misting....neither of which have anything to do with the humidity levels in the tub.

Condensation is caused by a temperature differential, not humidity.

In a properly built SGFC there should never be condensation.

In a monotub there should always be condensation, except for a dry ring around the polyfill stuffed holes.


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: PussyFart]
    #18909659 - 09/30/13 12:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

van der griegen said:
Water droplets inside your fruiting container means your RH is good.



What? No it doesn't.....

The water droplets are either from condensation, or from you misting....neither of which have anything to do with the humidity levels in the tub.

Condensation is caused by a temperature differential, not humidity.

In a properly built SGFC there should never be condensation.

In a monotub there should always be condensation, except for a dry ring around the polyfill stuffed holes.




We've argued about this before.  Condensation is when a temperature differential causes the saturation point of water to drop below the partial pressure, causing precipitation.  In humid air a temperature differential will cause condensation; in arid air it will not.  This is truth.  You've told us all before about taking a cold beer out of the fridge in Chicago and noting the condensation on it, and I've told you before about how that doesn't happen in Alberta because for water to come out of the air you have to have water in the air. Saying that condensation has nothing to do with humidity is exactly like saying that the sugar crystals that form when you chill a supersaturated syrup have nothing to do with how much sugar is in the water and everything to do with a temperature differential.  Sugar doesn't come from nowhere.  Neither does water.

Following your logic, though, I'm curious to know why is it that there should never be condensation in a SGFC?  Is it because there should never be a temperature differential?  That doesn't even begin to make sense.

My apologies if I'm :kingcrankey: tonight.  I'm coming down off a pretty painful and introspective trip.

Edit:  I said relative humidity instead of partial pressure, which has been corrected.


Edited by Psilicon (09/30/13 01:07 AM)


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: Psilicon]
    #18909682 - 09/30/13 01:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
Following your logic, though, I'm curious to know why is it that there should never be condensation in a SGFC?  Is it because there should never be a temperature differential?  That doesn't even begin to make sense.



No there should not be a temperature difference in a SGFC, the outside air temp should be the same as the inside air temp, because of the constant FAE.

Hence why the only moisture on the sides of a properly built SGFC is moisture you put there, not condensation.




Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
You're arguing the indefensible point that condensation on the walls is an indicator of high humidity in a terrarium, which it is not, regardless of who has made the same mistake before.  My terrariums are all sitting at 95% or greater, and not one of them has a single drop of condensation on the walls.  However, I can take a sealed-up rubbermaid, put perlite and substrates in it, and shortly after I turn on the light overhead, condensation will form on the sides.  Why? Temperature differential-It's warmer inside the terrarium than outside.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11206419#11206419

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Condensation, or the lack of it, is not in any way, shape, or form and indication of sufficient humidity for mushroom cultivation.  Nor will you get condensation on the sides of a container with holes drilled in it.  The holes exchange air(number ONE pinning trigger) and equalize the temperature differential.  I've never seen condensation in a shotgun terrarium, even when it's at 100% humidity.

RR



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11238495#11238495



Simple searches.....


Edited by PussyFart (09/30/13 01:03 AM)


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: PussyFart]
    #18909718 - 09/30/13 01:20 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

A relative humidity of 95% means there's 95% of the maximum possible humidity in the air.  You won't have condensation until the RH is 100%, so obviously there won't be a single drop on the walls.

If there is a temperature differential of only a degree or two and there is condensation on the walls, it is in fact a very good sign that humidity is high enough for cultivation.  Condensation with a two-degree temperature differential means you have a 95% RH or above.  You can double check that if you like by using this condensation calculator, but you probably won't enjoy the fact that you have to enter the relative humidity to make it work.

I'm sorry, but RR is wrong about this, and instead of looking it up for yourself you just parroted him.  He's the first to tell you he's not the word of God, so please stop treating him as such.


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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: Psilicon]
    #18909737 - 09/30/13 01:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
A relative humidity of 95% means there's 95% of the maximum possible humidity in the air.  You won't have condensation until the RH is 100%, so obviously there won't be a single drop on the walls.



So you are saying condensation will not happen unless the humidity is at 100%?

WTF?!?!?!

Quote:

van der griegen said:
If there is a temperature differential of only a degree or two and there is condensation on the walls, it is in fact a very good sign that humidity is high enough for cultivation.  Condensation with a two-degree temperature differential means you have a 95% RH or above.



That is complete bullshit.

Condensation is not an indicator of high RH, if that was the case there would always be condensation in a SGFC that has 100% humidity....but there is not.

Quote:

van der griegen said:
I'm sorry, but RR is wrong about this, and instead of looking it up for yourself you just parroted him.  He's the first to tell you he's not the word of God, so please stop treating him as such.



Yes, let's all bow down to the almighty RR.....

Here are some other TC's opinions on the matter....since RR quotes piss you off....

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Light in FC = no no.  Heat bad.  Hotter interior FC = more condensation. Condensation is humidity being removed from the air and stuck to the walls and heat sources.  It's created by a temp differential between the inside and outside of the FC.  The same way your windshield fogs up under certain conditions in your car.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16371685#16371685

Quote:

EvilMushroom666 said:
Also note that condensation on the side walls of your chamber is not an indication of relative humidity. What this does indicate tho is a temperature differential between the inside of the chamber and the ambient room air. This causes moisture inside the chamber to condense on the walls of the chamber. If you build your chamber correctly your relative humidity will be in the needed range.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15223324#15223324

Quote:

FooMan said:
If the humidity is reading 99% with good airflow it sounds like a good setup. Condensation isn't necessarily an indicator of humidity.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18190770#18190770

Quote:

TranscendingLife said:
The condensation you're seeing is due to the tub being warmer than your room temperature due to colonization.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17012416#17012416



So are they all wrong as well?

Are they just parroting RR?


:curbyourenthusiasm:


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: PussyFart]
    #18909758 - 09/30/13 01:48 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
So you are saying condensation will not happen unless the humidity is at 100%?

WTF?!?!?!




Yes, that's exactly right.  What do you think the 100% is a measurement of, if not how much water can be held in the air?  Will you actually do us both a favor and look up partial pressure, relative humidity and condensation?  Will you please do that?  Because I have and I'm quite certain you haven't.

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

van der griegen said:
If there is a temperature differential of only a degree or two and there is condensation on the walls, it is in fact a very good sign that humidity is high enough for cultivation.  Condensation with a two-degree temperature differential means you have a 95% RH or above.



That is complete bullshit.

Condensation is not an indicator of high RH, if that was the case there would always be condensation in a SGFC that has 100% humidity....but there is not.




Not so.  If there's no temperature differential, there will be no condensation.  I never said the temperature didn't play into it, because it does.  But if there is a temperature differential and if the RH is 100%, yeah, you can bet your ass there will be condensation.

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

van der griegen said:
I'm sorry, but RR is wrong about this, and instead of looking it up for yourself you just parroted him.  He's the first to tell you he's not the word of God, so please stop treating him as such.



Yes, let's all bow down to the almighty RR.....

Here are some other TC's opinions on the matter....since RR quotes piss you off....

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Light in FC = no no.  Heat bad.  Hotter interior FC = more condensation. Condensation is humidity being removed from the air and stuck to the walls and heat sources.  It's created by a temp differential between the inside and outside of the FC.  The same way your windshield fogs up under certain conditions in your car.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16371685#16371685

Quote:

EvilMushroom666 said:
Also note that condensation on the side walls of your chamber is not an indication of relative humidity. What this does indicate tho is a temperature differential between the inside of the chamber and the ambient room air. This causes moisture inside the chamber to condense on the walls of the chamber. If you build your chamber correctly your relative humidity will be in the needed range.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15223324#15223324

Quote:

FooMan said:
If the humidity is reading 99% with good airflow it sounds like a good setup. Condensation isn't necessarily an indicator of humidity.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18190770#18190770

Quote:

TranscendingLife said:
The condensation you're seeing is due to the tub being warmer than your room temperature due to colonization.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17012416#17012416



So are they all wrong as well?

Are they just parroting RR?


:curbyourenthusiasm:




Frank's absolutely right, as he doesn't say anything about it not being a function of relative humidity.  The rest of them are all wrong, yeah.

Please go to the calculator I linked you to or just learn something about this from a non-shroomery source and get a better grasp on the concept rather than these appeals to authority and bandwagon fallacies.  Those TCs are all very smart people who know a lot about mycology, but not necessarily about chemistry, and that's perfectly okay because I think all of them would already have clicked on the link you refused to click and with all of them this conversation would be over by now.

Don't get me wrong, I like your version of the universe better, where you can just magically pull substances from the air that weren't in the air in the first place and all you need is a temperature differential.  I'd be chilling the air until diamonds and gold fell out of it, and then chilling it some more to get some uranium and provide free power to everybody so they could just chill.  Everything would be so...well, chill.


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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: Psilicon]
    #18909773 - 09/30/13 02:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
Not so.  If there's no temperature differential, there will be no condensation.  I never said the temperature didn't play into it, because it does.  But if there is a temperature differential and if the RH is 100%, yeah, you can bet your ass there will be condensation.



Even if the RH was 40% there would be condensation if there was a temperature difference buddy.......

But you nailed it on the head when you said there would be no condensation without a temperature difference.

So regardless of the ambient RH, condensation forming in general(not the amount of), is based soley on one thing....temperature difference.

This is all I was getting at, but saying that seeing condensation means that the internal humidity is good is bullshit, because condensation can happen at different humidity levels, not just at 100% RH.

I believe we have to agree to disagree here....


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: PussyFart]
    #18909986 - 09/30/13 04:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

you dont need 100% rh to have condensation.
Look at your poorly isolated windows in the winter.
They get condensation because of the heat escaping between your window frame and house wall.
Poorly isolated roofs get this on the edges that points out over the walls supporting the roof,
resulting in ice taps and dangerous bricks of ice eventually falling of due to their own weight.

kindest regards,
mr constructions engineer  :derfase:


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: PussyFart]
    #18910144 - 09/30/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

van der griegen said:
Not so.  If there's no temperature differential, there will be no condensation.  I never said the temperature didn't play into it, because it does.  But if there is a temperature differential and if the RH is 100%, yeah, you can bet your ass there will be condensation.



Even if the RH was 40% there would be condensation if there was a temperature difference buddy.......

But you nailed it on the head when you said there would be no condensation without a temperature difference.

So regardless of the ambient RH, condensation forming in general(not the amount of), is based soley on one thing....temperature difference.

This is all I was getting at, but saying that seeing condensation means that the internal humidity is good is bullshit, because condensation can happen at different humidity levels, not just at 100% RH.

I believe we have to agree to disagree here....




Or you can click the goddamn link, go to the goddamn calculator and see for yourself exactly how much temperature differential you need to see condensation at any given relative humidity.  After you do, you'll see that if you have condensation with only two degrees of temperature differential, you do indeed have a 95% RH.


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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: Psilicon]
    #18911193 - 09/30/13 12:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
Or you can click the goddamn link, go to the goddamn calculator and see for yourself exactly how much temperature differential you need to see condensation at any given relative humidity.  After you do, you'll see that if you have condensation with only two degrees of temperature differential, you do indeed have a 95% RH.



But knowing the humidity at a given temperature range does us no good, because I can almost guarantee there is more than just a degree or 2 difference in most peoples monotubs.

A monotub will generate 10+ degrees of heat easily....I  do not care about that goddam link....no one needs a calculator for this....you cannot judge the RH by looking at condensation, period.

Just because there is condensation does not mean there is 95% or above humidity.

It is not that humid in my house in the winter, but water condenses on my windows....and I can almost guarantee there is more than a degree or 2 of difference.

That calculator is almost as useless as the bulk substrate calculator....


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: PussyFart]
    #18913544 - 09/30/13 10:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:I  do not care about that goddam link....no one needs a calculator for this....you cannot judge the RH by looking at condensation, period.

Just because there is condensation does not mean there is 95% or above humidity.

It is not that humid in my house in the winter, but water condenses on my windows....and I can almost guarantee there is more than a degree or 2 of difference.

That calculator is almost as useless as the bulk substrate calculator....




It's true that knowledge is useless to anybody who refuses to accept it.  For anyone who does bother to look up and understand how condensation works it can be useful, but your repeated denials to my requests that you learn something about what you're talking about have won out over my attempts to teach you that water can only come from air if it was already in the air in the first place, and that condensation is a mathematically predictable process with two very simple variables.

You win, and I'm going to go open my freezer door and see if any vodka condenses onto it because all kinds of crazy unpredictable shit apparently happens when you have a temperature differential.  All rules are off!

:gonnaneedmyglasses:


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Agar - what, why and how?  Everything a beginner needs to know.
Oat Prep Tek
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Offlinenn-IlliniSpiralDMT
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: PussyFart]
    #18913845 - 09/30/13 11:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

van der griegen said:
A relative humidity of 95% means there's 95% of the maximum possible humidity in the air.  You won't have condensation until the RH is 100%, so obviously there won't be a single drop on the walls.



So you are saying condensation will not happen unless the humidity is at 100%?

WTF?!?!?!

Quote:

van der griegen said:
If there is a temperature differential of only a degree or two and there is condensation on the walls, it is in fact a very good sign that humidity is high enough for cultivation.  Condensation with a two-degree temperature differential means you have a 95% RH or above.



That is complete bullshit.

Condensation is not an indicator of high RH, if that was the case there would always be condensation in a SGFC that has 100% humidity....but there is not.

Quote:

van der griegen said:
I'm sorry, but RR is wrong about this, and instead of looking it up for yourself you just parroted him.  He's the first to tell you he's not the word of God, so please stop treating him as such.



Yes, let's all bow down to the almighty RR.....

Here are some other TC's opinions on the matter....since RR quotes piss you off....

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Light in FC = no no.  Heat bad.  Hotter interior FC = more condensation. Condensation is humidity being removed from the air and stuck to the walls and heat sources.  It's created by a temp differential between the inside and outside of the FC.  The same way your windshield fogs up under certain conditions in your car.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16371685#16371685

Quote:

EvilMushroom666 said:
Also note that condensation on the side walls of your chamber is not an indication of relative humidity. What this does indicate tho is a temperature differential between the inside of the chamber and the ambient room air. This causes moisture inside the chamber to condense on the walls of the chamber. If you build your chamber correctly your relative humidity will be in the needed range.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15223324#15223324

Quote:

FooMan said:
If the humidity is reading 99% with good airflow it sounds like a good setup. Condensation isn't necessarily an indicator of humidity.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18190770#18190770

Quote:

TranscendingLife said:
The condensation you're seeing is due to the tub being warmer than your room temperature due to colonization.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17012416#17012416



So are they all wrong as well?

Are they just parroting RR?


:curbyourenthusiasm:






:thumbup: Totally correcto :rasta:


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OfflineMycoUco
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Registered: 09/25/13
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: wayneshy465]
    #18915114 - 10/01/13 08:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Do you have any pinning in these chambers yet?


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: MycoUco]
    #18915447 - 10/01/13 10:25 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Condensation on the walls of a SGFC does not indicate you have RH proper for fruiting.

It does indicate there is moisture, because...yes..it has to come from somewhere to be condensing.

However, The condensation only indicates the temperature differential between the inside and outside surfaces of the wall are correct for condensation, but not high ambient RH inside the SGFC. In other words, the actual surface of the material may be cool enough in relation to ambient air to allow for condensation without the ambient RH being high enough for fruiting.

If the RH is high, then condensation occurs at a lower temperature differential. If the RH is low, then the temperature differential must be greater.

In SGFC, even if the RH and temperature differential is correct for condensation to occur, it is unlikely to happen because of constant flow of fresh drier air. If you have a lot of condensation on your SGFC walls, you may not be getting enough FAE.

If you have your SGFC stuffed with a lot of cakes, then I could see condensation happening...maybe.


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