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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: PussyFart]
#18909758 - 09/30/13 01:48 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said: So you are saying condensation will not happen unless the humidity is at 100%?
WTF?!?!?!
Yes, that's exactly right. What do you think the 100% is a measurement of, if not how much water can be held in the air? Will you actually do us both a favor and look up partial pressure, relative humidity and condensation? Will you please do that? Because I have and I'm quite certain you haven't.
Quote:
Notahacker420 said:Quote:
van der griegen said: If there is a temperature differential of only a degree or two and there is condensation on the walls, it is in fact a very good sign that humidity is high enough for cultivation. Condensation with a two-degree temperature differential means you have a 95% RH or above.
That is complete bullshit.
Condensation is not an indicator of high RH, if that was the case there would always be condensation in a SGFC that has 100% humidity....but there is not.
Not so. If there's no temperature differential, there will be no condensation. I never said the temperature didn't play into it, because it does. But if there is a temperature differential and if the RH is 100%, yeah, you can bet your ass there will be condensation.
Quote:
Notahacker420 said:Quote:
van der griegen said: I'm sorry, but RR is wrong about this, and instead of looking it up for yourself you just parroted him. He's the first to tell you he's not the word of God, so please stop treating him as such.
Yes, let's all bow down to the almighty RR.....
Here are some other TC's opinions on the matter....since RR quotes piss you off....
Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Light in FC = no no. Heat bad. Hotter interior FC = more condensation. Condensation is humidity being removed from the air and stuck to the walls and heat sources. It's created by a temp differential between the inside and outside of the FC. The same way your windshield fogs up under certain conditions in your car.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16371685#16371685
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EvilMushroom666 said: Also note that condensation on the side walls of your chamber is not an indication of relative humidity. What this does indicate tho is a temperature differential between the inside of the chamber and the ambient room air. This causes moisture inside the chamber to condense on the walls of the chamber. If you build your chamber correctly your relative humidity will be in the needed range.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15223324#15223324
Quote:
FooMan said: If the humidity is reading 99% with good airflow it sounds like a good setup. Condensation isn't necessarily an indicator of humidity.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18190770#18190770
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TranscendingLife said: The condensation you're seeing is due to the tub being warmer than your room temperature due to colonization.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17012416#17012416
So are they all wrong as well?
Are they just parroting RR?

Frank's absolutely right, as he doesn't say anything about it not being a function of relative humidity. The rest of them are all wrong, yeah.
Please go to the calculator I linked you to or just learn something about this from a non-shroomery source and get a better grasp on the concept rather than these appeals to authority and bandwagon fallacies. Those TCs are all very smart people who know a lot about mycology, but not necessarily about chemistry, and that's perfectly okay because I think all of them would already have clicked on the link you refused to click and with all of them this conversation would be over by now.
Don't get me wrong, I like your version of the universe better, where you can just magically pull substances from the air that weren't in the air in the first place and all you need is a temperature differential. I'd be chilling the air until diamonds and gold fell out of it, and then chilling it some more to get some uranium and provide free power to everybody so they could just chill. Everything would be so...well, chill.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 13 hours
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: Psilicon]
#18909773 - 09/30/13 02:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
van der griegen said: Not so. If there's no temperature differential, there will be no condensation. I never said the temperature didn't play into it, because it does. But if there is a temperature differential and if the RH is 100%, yeah, you can bet your ass there will be condensation.
Even if the RH was 40% there would be condensation if there was a temperature difference buddy.......
But you nailed it on the head when you said there would be no condensation without a temperature difference.
So regardless of the ambient RH, condensation forming in general(not the amount of), is based soley on one thing....temperature difference.
This is all I was getting at, but saying that seeing condensation means that the internal humidity is good is bullshit, because condensation can happen at different humidity levels, not just at 100% RH.
I believe we have to agree to disagree here....
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: PussyFart]
#18909986 - 09/30/13 04:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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you dont need 100% rh to have condensation. Look at your poorly isolated windows in the winter. They get condensation because of the heat escaping between your window frame and house wall. Poorly isolated roofs get this on the edges that points out over the walls supporting the roof, resulting in ice taps and dangerous bricks of ice eventually falling of due to their own weight.
kindest regards, mr constructions engineer
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: PussyFart]
#18910144 - 09/30/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
Quote:
van der griegen said: Not so. If there's no temperature differential, there will be no condensation. I never said the temperature didn't play into it, because it does. But if there is a temperature differential and if the RH is 100%, yeah, you can bet your ass there will be condensation.
Even if the RH was 40% there would be condensation if there was a temperature difference buddy.......
But you nailed it on the head when you said there would be no condensation without a temperature difference.
So regardless of the ambient RH, condensation forming in general(not the amount of), is based soley on one thing....temperature difference.
This is all I was getting at, but saying that seeing condensation means that the internal humidity is good is bullshit, because condensation can happen at different humidity levels, not just at 100% RH.
I believe we have to agree to disagree here....
Or you can click the goddamn link, go to the goddamn calculator and see for yourself exactly how much temperature differential you need to see condensation at any given relative humidity. After you do, you'll see that if you have condensation with only two degrees of temperature differential, you do indeed have a 95% RH.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 13 hours
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: Psilicon]
#18911193 - 09/30/13 12:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
van der griegen said: Or you can click the goddamn link, go to the goddamn calculator and see for yourself exactly how much temperature differential you need to see condensation at any given relative humidity. After you do, you'll see that if you have condensation with only two degrees of temperature differential, you do indeed have a 95% RH.
But knowing the humidity at a given temperature range does us no good, because I can almost guarantee there is more than just a degree or 2 difference in most peoples monotubs.
A monotub will generate 10+ degrees of heat easily....I do not care about that goddam link....no one needs a calculator for this....you cannot judge the RH by looking at condensation, period.
Just because there is condensation does not mean there is 95% or above humidity.
It is not that humid in my house in the winter, but water condenses on my windows....and I can almost guarantee there is more than a degree or 2 of difference.
That calculator is almost as useless as the bulk substrate calculator....
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: PussyFart]
#18913544 - 09/30/13 10:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:I do not care about that goddam link....no one needs a calculator for this....you cannot judge the RH by looking at condensation, period.
Just because there is condensation does not mean there is 95% or above humidity.
It is not that humid in my house in the winter, but water condenses on my windows....and I can almost guarantee there is more than a degree or 2 of difference.
That calculator is almost as useless as the bulk substrate calculator....
It's true that knowledge is useless to anybody who refuses to accept it. For anyone who does bother to look up and understand how condensation works it can be useful, but your repeated denials to my requests that you learn something about what you're talking about have won out over my attempts to teach you that water can only come from air if it was already in the air in the first place, and that condensation is a mathematically predictable process with two very simple variables.
You win, and I'm going to go open my freezer door and see if any vodka condenses onto it because all kinds of crazy unpredictable shit apparently happens when you have a temperature differential. All rules are off!
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nn-IlliniSpiralDMT
Maniac


Registered: 07/19/12
Posts: 380
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: PussyFart]
#18913845 - 09/30/13 11:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
Quote:
van der griegen said: A relative humidity of 95% means there's 95% of the maximum possible humidity in the air. You won't have condensation until the RH is 100%, so obviously there won't be a single drop on the walls.
So you are saying condensation will not happen unless the humidity is at 100%?
WTF?!?!?!
Quote:
van der griegen said: If there is a temperature differential of only a degree or two and there is condensation on the walls, it is in fact a very good sign that humidity is high enough for cultivation. Condensation with a two-degree temperature differential means you have a 95% RH or above.
That is complete bullshit.
Condensation is not an indicator of high RH, if that was the case there would always be condensation in a SGFC that has 100% humidity....but there is not.
Quote:
van der griegen said: I'm sorry, but RR is wrong about this, and instead of looking it up for yourself you just parroted him. He's the first to tell you he's not the word of God, so please stop treating him as such.
Yes, let's all bow down to the almighty RR.....
Here are some other TC's opinions on the matter....since RR quotes piss you off....
Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Light in FC = no no. Heat bad. Hotter interior FC = more condensation. Condensation is humidity being removed from the air and stuck to the walls and heat sources. It's created by a temp differential between the inside and outside of the FC. The same way your windshield fogs up under certain conditions in your car.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16371685#16371685
Quote:
EvilMushroom666 said: Also note that condensation on the side walls of your chamber is not an indication of relative humidity. What this does indicate tho is a temperature differential between the inside of the chamber and the ambient room air. This causes moisture inside the chamber to condense on the walls of the chamber. If you build your chamber correctly your relative humidity will be in the needed range.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15223324#15223324
Quote:
FooMan said: If the humidity is reading 99% with good airflow it sounds like a good setup. Condensation isn't necessarily an indicator of humidity.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18190770#18190770
Quote:
TranscendingLife said: The condensation you're seeing is due to the tub being warmer than your room temperature due to colonization.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17012416#17012416
So are they all wrong as well?
Are they just parroting RR?

Totally correcto
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MycoUco
Stranger
Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 22
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: wayneshy465]
#18915114 - 10/01/13 08:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Do you have any pinning in these chambers yet?
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: what do yall think of this for fc [Re: MycoUco]
#18915447 - 10/01/13 10:25 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Condensation on the walls of a SGFC does not indicate you have RH proper for fruiting.
It does indicate there is moisture, because...yes..it has to come from somewhere to be condensing.
However, The condensation only indicates the temperature differential between the inside and outside surfaces of the wall are correct for condensation, but not high ambient RH inside the SGFC. In other words, the actual surface of the material may be cool enough in relation to ambient air to allow for condensation without the ambient RH being high enough for fruiting.
If the RH is high, then condensation occurs at a lower temperature differential. If the RH is low, then the temperature differential must be greater.
In SGFC, even if the RH and temperature differential is correct for condensation to occur, it is unlikely to happen because of constant flow of fresh drier air. If you have a lot of condensation on your SGFC walls, you may not be getting enough FAE.
If you have your SGFC stuffed with a lot of cakes, then I could see condensation happening...maybe.
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