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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,252
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Are we one or many?
#18903767 - 09/28/13 05:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Neither or both?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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tribesman
Never satisfied



Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 948
Loc: Down by the river
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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: Rahz]
#18903793 - 09/28/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Many what?
-------------------- " No permanence is ours; we are a wave That flows to fit whatever form it finds: Through night or day, cathedral or the cave We pass forever, craving form that binds." ~ Hermann Hesse, The Glass Bead Game
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: Rahz]
#18903809 - 09/28/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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both what?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,252
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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: tribesman]
#18903842 - 09/28/13 06:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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beings mostly.
It's a classic question of duality -vs- oneness but I've substituted duality with 'things' which include beings. Is the universe's manifested reality a single thing or many things, neither or both?
This is a chance to logically argue for oneness or separateness/duality... or both or neither.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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HardTrippin
The Ambivalent



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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: Rahz] 1
#18903852 - 09/28/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Both, we are many in one. There can be no denying oneness with the universe.
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



Registered: 01/14/10
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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: Rahz]
#18903857 - 09/28/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's all just the same thing, there's a perspective that's a little subtle, where you will see that everything in your visual field is actually consciousness, and you are that.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
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Quote:
HardTrippin said: Both, we are many in one. There can be no denying oneness with the universe.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,252
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I deny oneness with the universe. 
I like your answer though.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,252
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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: circastes]
#18903948 - 09/28/13 06:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
It's all just the same thing
But there is often the perception of other things. Is this useful and/or meaningful in some context?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 8,781
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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: Rahz]
#18903963 - 09/28/13 06:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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The names and forms are not real, they are abstractions, existing only in the mind. Reality is just reality, and you are that. The apparent multiplicity is only imaginary, a bit of an optical illusion.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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Lazarus.Long
Happy to be here now!



Registered: 09/10/13
Posts: 83
Loc: World as Myth
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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: tribesman]
#18903999 - 09/28/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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There is one mind common to all individual men. Every man is an inlet to the same and to all of the same. He that is once admitted to the right of reason is made a freeman of the whole estate. What Plato has thought, he may think; what a saint has felt, he may feel; what at any time has be-fallen any man, he can understand. Who hath access to this universal mind is a party to all that is or can be done, for this is the only and sovereign agent. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
“The dance goes from realizing that you're separate (which is the awakening) to then trying to find your way back into the totality of which you are not only a part, but which you are.” ― Ram Dass
If you see yourself as God and then you come back from this state and somebody says, "Hey, Sam, empty the garbage!" it catches you back into the model of "I'm Sam who empties the garbage." You can't maintain these new kinds of structures. It takes a while to realize that God can empty garbage. ― Ram Dass
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,252
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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: circastes]
#18904026 - 09/28/13 06:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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What we see are abstractions but it seems logical to assume variations in the environment cause particular perceptions. I don't see why the forms wouldn't be 'out there' to be perceived in so much as there is an out there. I think forms are all transient, real or perceived, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're not real in the context of space and time.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 8,781
Loc: straya
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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: Rahz]
#18904675 - 09/28/13 09:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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There seems to be at least two modes to a sober brain, one is taking it all to be physical and real, the other is seeing the Reality alone. I think it's a nervous system change or kind of dial. You'll notice all the realised masters have a kind of look in their eyes, a kind of curious look, it's just the nervous system switched into seeing the Reality, or Self is a better name, since all you see is you.
However I don't really think you can leave it there. I think something is certainly going on, but it's not external, is all. There is order and structure but it is not external to one's self.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: Rahz]
#18904829 - 09/28/13 10:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: Neither or both?
Not both nor neither. Supreme ultra-truth is not a concept. It is not an experience. It is that which within concepts and experience take place.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: Middleman]
#18905544 - 09/29/13 01:58 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I dig this passage from Tim Leary's _The Game of Life_
ORDERED VARIETY AND SEQUENTIAL UNITY REPLACE BLAND HINDU "ALL IS ONE" The danger of such pantheistic insights about the unity of nature is that they often freeze thought precisely where it is most illuminating and amusing to enquire further. One Is a good place to start a number system, but an Idiot-lazy place to stop. " All is One" has become such a platitude among the intellectually lethargic that It is necessary, today, to emphasize that the Game of Life involves both sequential unity and plurality, both binding serial coherence and infinite diversity, both eternal Law and eternal Play. Intoning "All is One" adds nothing new to the human information pool and merely demonstrates that the intoner has taken the first and simplest step beyond conditioned consciousness (or else that SHe has learned to parrot a popular transmission from those who have taken the first post-larval step).·
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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tribesman
Never satisfied



Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 948
Loc: Down by the river
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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: Rahz]
#18906040 - 09/29/13 07:27 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: One or Many, Neither or both?
I am a reconciliation of my many parts, A compound of multiplicity, Staving off fracture, the universe is a reconciliation of our struggle to unify, and converge.
Delineation, not separation.
-------------------- " No permanence is ours; we are a wave That flows to fit whatever form it finds: Through night or day, cathedral or the cave We pass forever, craving form that binds." ~ Hermann Hesse, The Glass Bead Game
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nuentoter
conduit



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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: tribesman]
#18906082 - 09/29/13 07:44 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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definitely both, made of many parts but acting as a singularity sometimes. What akes the difference is the CHOICE to see it one way or another, for you to presonally choose to see humankind as individuals or as a whole, to see this planet as a conglomerate of billions of things all shifting and changing together or as a single entity. its a choice because it is both but our perspective is what changes everything. this is the way everything in life is, it is how you choose to see it, even if it doesn't conform to the group reality just means you gotta stick to ur guns of choice a lil stronger.
--------------------
The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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tribesman
Never satisfied



Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 948
Loc: Down by the river
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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: nuentoter]
#18907726 - 09/29/13 04:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Of course there is a choice, but does that mean that there isn't an objective answer to the op's question? I love these questions, they address the problem of are we separate, or are we connected in ways that supersede our mundane ability to perceive reality.
-------------------- " No permanence is ours; we are a wave That flows to fit whatever form it finds: Through night or day, cathedral or the cave We pass forever, craving form that binds." ~ Hermann Hesse, The Glass Bead Game
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: Rahz]
#18907732 - 09/29/13 04:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: I deny oneness with the universe. 
Then how are we talking right now?
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Are we one or many? [Re: NetDiver]
#18907745 - 09/29/13 04:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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All infinite souls from an infinite oneness that encompasses all living creatures
if that makes sense , you are me 
the soul is complete, no coincidences, and equally great in every living creature
still trying to quit meat.... it's a rare thing now though, feel better without it
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