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Psilopsychosis



Registered: 07/06/13
Posts: 717
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I have a hard time articualting my thoughts on spiritual subjects
#18904260 - 09/28/13 08:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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A year ago I could talk for hours about my theories on metaphysics, spirituality and religion. Even politics and society I thought I had all the answers. Then one day I realized I really don't know anything or a least a fraction of what I thought I knew. This isn't such a problem to be humbled by my own ignorance but I don't feel as secure with my beliefs and theories as I used to be. I think that is ok.
The problem is that now I have ideas but they are just that, ideas, they don't seem to develop into anything concrete. I find myself challenging everything that comes into my head because I don't want to be delusional. So I never let myself day dream and speculate any more. And when I do mange to have a cool idea I have trouble writing it down and sharing it because I just can't find the words I need.
I am writing this because I wanted to make a thread on people's experiences/beliefs with God. I had trouble explaining my own stuff so how can I ask other people to explain their's...
Edited by Psilopsychosis (09/28/13 08:45 PM)
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,406
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Re: I have a hard time articualting my thoughts on spiritual subjects [Re: Psilopsychosis]
#18904664 - 09/28/13 09:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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have you tried meditation? i find meditation is a neat way to connect with a knowingness that doesn't need words to covey itself, a way to be beyond ideas and yet secure in truth 
maybe this is your being's stage of moving beyond just theorizing - as that alone is never imo truly fulfilling as a path to revealing truth. maybe try stepping into the wordless realm of meditation and inner quietude and see how that feels? there's a way to have a sense of complete trust and knowingness while in meditation that does not have the uncertainty and such that comes along with conceptual theorizing. plus it feels great
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Beside the Garden


Registered: 06/03/13
Posts: 606
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Re: I have a hard time articualting my thoughts on spiritual subjects [Re: deff]
#18904683 - 09/28/13 09:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mahananda


Registered: 08/18/12
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Re: I have a hard time articualting my thoughts on spiritual subjects [Re: Psilopsychosis]
#18904844 - 09/28/13 10:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Spirituality isn't what you think. 
But seriously, philosophy is very different from insight. I see people arguing abstruse points concerning Buddshim in another forum I participate in and I can only think of the parable of the arrow. If you're getting to a point where the experiential wisdom you glean from your spiritual practice is difficult to put into words, then I'd say you can take that for a sign you are well along the path. Even in merely philosophical terms, having a keen appreciation for the limits of knowledge, as Socrates observed, betokens a mature understanding.
-------------------- Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of living, it doesn't matter Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come even if you have broken your vow a thousand times, Come, yet again, come, come
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: I have a hard time articualting my thoughts on spiritual subjects [Re: Psilopsychosis]
#18905380 - 09/29/13 01:02 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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it seems as though you've dropped the need to impress others, but are now stuck worrying that you'll go mad. it all just seems like hive taboo hurdles to the pure self-rewarding joy of learning and creating.
the only thing that will make you delusional is strong convictions, so go get high and really theorize... there's a qualitative difference between belief and theory yanno.... there's no vested interest in a theory being true to to elevate your social status.... you're doing it because it's fascinating.... and that's what it means to philosophize i think.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Khancious
da Crow



Registered: 12/05/12
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Loc: Behind Everything
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Re: I have a hard time articualting my thoughts on spiritual subjects [Re: CosmicJoke]
#18905908 - 09/29/13 06:02 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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You articulated your excuse on not articulating your spiritual experiences well, which must mean you are still a prisoner of another's conceptualization of who you think you are.
Lol jk... maybe...
Just say what you have to say We're all here for a couple day Leave your mark if you will Hopefully you enjoy your stay Don't forget to pay the bill
-------------------- I am that, which is.
Edited by Khancious (09/29/13 06:13 AM)
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
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Re: I have a hard time articualting my thoughts on spiritual subjects [Re: Khancious]
#18905916 - 09/29/13 06:08 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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understanding and confusion are the two feet of wisdom the tide of knowledge flows in and out some years you'll be more loquacious some years you'll shy away from those others the things you wore you'll give to Goodwill you'll only have one outfit for an age sometime later the interest will come around until then you'll read and participate in other people's threads no need to be great new thread originator grasshopper
can you read that thread near your delete
-------------------- ...or something
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
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Re: I have a hard time articualting my thoughts on spiritual subjects [Re: Psilopsychosis]
#18906047 - 09/29/13 07:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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http://comicsthatsaysomething.quora.com/A-Day-at-the-Park
I think this comic strip illustrates why it's sometimes better to have questions rather than answers.
I went through exactly the same thing OP, and to be honest I think perhaps it's better to question than to answer. If you have never read anything by Robert Anton Wilson I would highly recommend Cosmic Trigger. Not only is it a really interesting, funny and thought provoking book but he starts by dealing with the fact that believing in anything automatically shuts you off to so much.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/cosmic_trigger.pdf
"I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions." "Convictions make you a convict"
Personally I flit from one idea to another. I like to wear lots of different "hats" which change from one day to the next. As long as the hat doesn't get stuck it's all good.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
Edited by PocketLady (09/29/13 07:36 AM)
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Psilopsychosis



Registered: 07/06/13
Posts: 717
Loc:
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Re: I have a hard time articualting my thoughts on spiritual subjects [Re: Khancious]
#18912736 - 09/30/13 07:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: have you tried meditation? i find meditation is a neat way to connect with a knowingness that doesn't need words to covey itself, a way to be beyond ideas and yet secure in truth 
maybe this is your being's stage of moving beyond just theorizing - as that alone is never imo truly fulfilling as a path to revealing truth. maybe try stepping into the wordless realm of meditation and inner quietude and see how that feels? there's a way to have a sense of complete trust and knowingness while in meditation that does not have the uncertainty and such that comes along with conceptual theorizing. plus it feels great 
I try to meditate everyday. I like to head outside around 9:00pm in my most comfortable clothes, bring this little stool and sit under this tree and. I straighten my posture and focus on my breathing until my mind empties and my whole being relaxes a few notches. If I do it just right I feel this intense weight or shifting feeling that makes it feel as though the line between my consciousness and the consciousness of the forest is blurred a little bit and I feel more connected with the world. I've been doing it steadily (but not always successfully) for a few months but only recently I found out it is called void meditation... go figure. I feels really good but I am not sure where insight comes in to be honest.
Quote:
Mahananda said: Spirituality isn't what you think. 
But seriously, philosophy is very different from insight. I see people arguing abstruse points concerning Buddshim in another forum I participate in and I can only think of the parable of the arrow. If you're getting to a point where the experiential wisdom you glean from your spiritual practice is difficult to put into words, then I'd say you can take that for a sign you are well along the path. Even in merely philosophical terms, having a keen appreciation for the limits of knowledge, as Socrates observed, betokens a mature understanding.
So maybe an element of understanding complex things is that little can be said because little can be known for certain?
Quote:
CosmicJoke said: it seems as though you've dropped the need to impress others, but are now stuck worrying that you'll go mad. it all just seems like hive taboo hurdles to the pure self-rewarding joy of learning and creating.
the only thing that will make you delusional is strong convictions, so go get high and really theorize... there's a qualitative difference between belief and theory yanno.... there's no vested interest in a theory being true to to elevate your social status.... you're doing it because it's fascinating.... and that's what it means to philosophize i think.
This is true... a delusion is defined as firmly held false belief or opinion so there isn't really a danger of becoming delusional if I were to take an objective, detached standpoint. I used to do what you describe a lot but somewhere along the line weed changed for me. I would philosophize and day dream for about 20% of the high then I would fall deep down into anxiety. I did a cost benefit sort of comparison and I found it not worth it anymore. When I am stoned in public I am not chill anymore I just laugh and laugh. No control whatsoever and no short term memory at all. So I haven't smoked in a few months.
My favourite thing in the world used to be trip by myself on shrooms and philosophize for 4-6 hours but my last trip left a bad taste in my mouth. I think tripping alone inevitably leads to delusions because there is no one there to challenge your ideas. Every awesome thought needs that skeptical moment IMO. So thats how I live my sober life. Awesome thoughts fill my head and I challenge them. It feels less magical but it also feels like the wise thing to do.
As an aside, I took some free mdma last weekend and had a great time but mdma is sketchy. Not sure if it is something I should get into again.
Blah... ran out of time; will finish responding tomorrow. I really appreciate everyone's responses though.
peace
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
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Re: I have a hard time articualting my thoughts on spiritual subjects [Re: Psilopsychosis]
#18916849 - 10/01/13 03:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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For all my wordiness, all I can write about are models that can be useful to map consciousness, or attempts to articulate my own experiences using models, or vocabulary borrowed from recognized traditions. I can write about God with or without attributes, but as soon as one arrives at God-without-attributes, or the Emptiness of Sunyata in Buddhism, all one can articulate is one's experience. It says more about the finite mind than about the Infinite. Every description sounds cliche. I agree with deff on the inability to translate Ultimate Reality into words. Light, Love, Space are all categories that we comprehend by analogy. It is not well received to say that these three 'attributes' were ONE Reality, and moreover, they weren't attributes, but rather 'the-Thing-in-Itself.'
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/01/13 03:43 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I have a hard time articualting my thoughts on spiritual subjects [Re: Psilopsychosis]
#18917093 - 10/01/13 04:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The problem is that now I have ideas but they are just that, ideas, they don't seem to develop into anything concrete. I find myself challenging everything that comes into my head because I don't want to be delusional.
Well that's all they are is ideas. As you stated you had a small awakening (imo) and realized that everything is ultimately an unknown. We didn't create this and we don't know how it was created. We just speculate.
The trick is to let your fantasy life continue without attaching truth to the equation. I fantasize all the time about my perfect world or what I would do if I was in charge etc, but I always know it's just my fantasy. But hey why not. It helps me to have them so I go for it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Universaleyeni
Friend



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Re: I have a hard time articualting my thoughts on spiritual subjects [Re: Icelander]
#18924686 - 10/03/13 06:33 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I feel a lot like op. It seems the more far out I've gone, the harder it has been to find the words to describe the things I've seen and felt.
I also totally agree that being able to debate and have your theories challenged is the perfect way to gain insight and or strengthen your beliefs and experiences.
Coming on this website, which I have been reading for many years, helps me with that because i am able to read so many opinions and beliefs.
There is a lot of vocabulary that I lack to even continue a debate with some folks here, but what's awesome is signing on a a webpage and reading other souls I have never met share similar deep spiritual thoughts and experiences.
When you ask me : what is the universe? What is love? Fear? Etc...? I may not have the words, but I will look at you with a twinkle in my eye, and a smile because I just know. Just can't put those things.into words most of the time.
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Yogi1
Squatchin
Registered: 04/01/13
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Re: I have a hard time articualting my thoughts on spiritual subjects [Re: Psilopsychosis]
#18924948 - 10/03/13 08:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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There's no way to often describe such irrational and abstract thoughts and feelings, whether you're right or not.
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Psilopsychosis



Registered: 07/06/13
Posts: 717
Loc:
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Re: I have a hard time articualting my thoughts on spiritual subjects [Re: PocketLady]
#18927050 - 10/03/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PocketLady said: http://comicsthatsaysomething.quora.com/A-Day-at-the-Park
I think this comic strip illustrates why it's sometimes better to have questions rather than answers.
I went through exactly the same thing OP, and to be honest I think perhaps it's better to question than to answer. If you have never read anything by Robert Anton Wilson I would highly recommend Cosmic Trigger. Not only is it a really interesting, funny and thought provoking book but he starts by dealing with the fact that believing in anything automatically shuts you off to so much.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/cosmic_trigger.pdf
"I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions." "Convictions make you a convict"
Personally I flit from one idea to another. I like to wear lots of different "hats" which change from one day to the next. As long as the hat doesn't get stuck it's all good.
Awesome comic strip and I will give the book a read next as soon as I finish the book I am reading now.
I've been thinking about it for a while and maybe I should just not say anything when there is nothing to say and save my words for when they are needed. Thanks for the input everybody.
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clam_dude
stranger in astrange land

Registered: 09/10/03
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Re: I have a hard time articualting my thoughts on spiritual subjects [Re: Psilopsychosis]
#18933621 - 10/04/13 10:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilopsychosis said: A year ago I could talk for hours about my theories on metaphysics, spirituality and religion. Even politics and society I thought I had all the answers. Then one day I realized I really don't know anything or a least a fraction of what I thought I knew. This isn't such a problem to be humbled by my own ignorance but I don't feel as secure with my beliefs and theories as I used to be. I think that is ok.
The problem is that now I have ideas but they are just that, ideas, they don't seem to develop into anything concrete. I find myself challenging everything that comes into my head because I don't want to be delusional. So I never let myself day dream and speculate any more. And when I do mange to have a cool idea I have trouble writing it down and sharing it because I just can't find the words I need.
I am writing this because I wanted to make a thread on people's experiences/beliefs with God. I had trouble explaining my own stuff so how can I ask other people to explain their's...
Sounds to me like you're a skeptical person who was brought up to believe in "god" or spiritual stuff of some sort. And you can't reconcile the religious/spiritual beliefs with your skepticism.
Perhaps you've come to realize that words like "god" or "spiritual" are essentially meaningless because they can be defined any which way. As you say, very little is usually communicated when people discuss god/spirituality for this reason.
As a skeptic myself, I would say keep going down that path. You'll find just as much joy in real things like art, nature, love, life, etc than you will find in things that don't exist.
-------------------- "I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais
Edited by clam_dude (10/04/13 10:38 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I have a hard time articualting my thoughts on spiritual subjects [Re: clam_dude]
#18935269 - 10/05/13 09:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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