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Offlinetsynna
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18877708 - 09/22/13 08:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

efilnikcufecin has typed:

"Why is it that a religious question receives philosophic replies?"

Just my experience here, but "religious" and "philosophic" are not
historically antithetical terms in the scope of the historical record; there were great religious scholars who were philosophers. You can still, to this day, read books within the philosophy of religion genre both new and old. So not apples and oranges here, just apples and apples.

Interesting conundrum herein:

"Meaning...how can you say a mushroom, which is a fungus, suddenly become a "seed bearing fruit" in order to fill a conceptual void?"

Not sure as to your meaning on this, but I think you mean to say: Hey, if you really mean that mushrooms are the apples of Eden, then how can they be "the fruit" ? My reply, is: the rhetorical application of hyperbole.

Good convo, OP! Thanks for the "fruit" this topic has provided all with.


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OfflineSaint Marcus
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: tsynna]
    #18882777 - 09/23/13 10:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't believe there is validity in that sentiment. Was it the sacred mushroom and the cross that first brought the notion mushrooms are the fruit used to decipher good and evil. Well if I was living in the time as an ape like forager and came across psilocybin shoots they don't have the capacity to show you many of things...


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Offlinemrbeanstalk
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: Saint Marcus]
    #18883175 - 09/24/13 12:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Totally true.


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Offlinetsynna
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: mrbeanstalk]
    #18883532 - 09/24/13 05:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Just a quick pointer on validity and sentiment; sentiment is attitude or opinion, and does not need to be a container of the mythical, validity. However, as by common usage in the studies of formal logic, validity is reserved for a formal premise. So, apples and oranges there. Have a great Tuesday!


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: tsynna]
    #18892446 - 09/26/13 02:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

the epitome of evil is having no empathy and the using of another as an object. Psychedelics inspire empathy when wisely used.


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: zzripz]
    #18893788 - 09/26/13 12:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I can see it.  They thrust one into the immediacy of existence by shutting down the main brain-hubs/filter system and it is overwhelming and a semi-vulnerable state physically but the emotional and mental payoff is astronomical. 

If reality is god; than the mushroom experience is a real re-acquaintance with that which is ever presently lost-in-translation.

It's enough to build a belief system around; or maybe a protective myth or two.

The visions may not all be real, the thoughts may not all be correct; but the experience is part of reality.

Quote:

There is no doubt in my mind that moses' manna was a psilocybe spp.


-Rockhound

I have heard doubts due to the non-hospitable desert environment but maybe on a mountain the weather changes and they probably had a herd, so (if Moses existed) I could see this.


--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.


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Offlinesof4r0ckeRs1984
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: flickedbic]
    #18893976 - 09/26/13 01:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think many of you don't really know what to make of the term "tree of the knowledge of good and evil".
If you believe in judeo-christian thoughts, it was actually a bad thing for Adam and Eve to acknowledge evil. Before that, they just did not acknowledge evil, thus they chould not do evil, they could not become guilty.
Let's compare it to Immanuel Kant's Critique of Pure Reason: According to him, all afficiations are the result of perceptions, meaning you acknowledge everything before you do it. Everything that you imagine, everything that you reason, is a result of your thinking and your sensual imagination of the things themselves. No matter what you just saw with your eyes, the moment the neurons fire to the optical organs of your brain, the image of what you saw (and not the thing itself), processed through your perception and spirit, is only a model of your own conception/perception. There is no perception of a thing in itself, it is all a reflection of your process of perception and conception, even before you decide what to do with the thing that you are looking at.

If they didn't have the possibility of acknowledging evil, they would not hve had the possibility of doing evil, so they must have been in a far greater bliss than we are today.

Especially when you are into psychedelics you will have to admit that the way you are looking at something greatly changes your behaviour. You know that we are all prisoners of our own perception and afficiation wether we like it or not.

Whether you believe in biblical dogmata or not, this is an example of where you can find this particular core principle in modern philosophy.

If you are going to read Kant's Critique, skip the first hundred pages, he needs a long time to get to the matter because he is explaining the foundations of his philosophy first, which you can't barely understand as a total layman before getting his principle idea.

Edit: It should be clear that we can't conclude through rational thinking wether the bible is true just because this particular principle of Kant's Critique is confirmed by the book of genesis, but... this particular principle of Kant's Critique is as you see confirmed by the three thousand year old book of genesis.


Edited by sof4r0ckeRs1984 (09/26/13 01:25 PM)


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OfflineDeathcore
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: sof4r0ckeRs1984]
    #18894327 - 09/26/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

god put the fruits there..

sounds like satan to me


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Offlinesukhavati12
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: Delarge]
    #18894405 - 09/26/13 02:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Delarge said:
what do you guys think about the idea that shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil?











my experience with shrooms and how it relates to the theory.

when i was on them i saw that there was a god.
i was obsessed with circles ( jung thought they represented the soul. a circle is a hole)
also in christian artwork a dead person is often painted with a golden circle above them, a halo.

and i could SEE :eek: fucking everything.

everything went perfect. pure light.
then i went backwards. or i chose the dark path. i crossed over. i crossed the light and dark wires. i chose evil.



now i assume most people who do mushrooms had a similar experience of perception choosing either light or dark?


if i chose light i probably would've gone to heaven and had an amazing dream that went on forever over and over.(thats my guess)
and thats why the fruit of knowledge brings you down to earth. because you wanted to stay in that once dream forever. so you shed your skin over and over to re-live it again.
but you get to alter it a little bit, improve it every time you're reincarnated. and you start a tree of decisions, until you reach the perfect life for you that you would live over and over.




:satansmoking:
i chose the dark path, the path of the moon, and i became the sandman.
and now i live alone in an endless dream on the "astral plane" more like astral pain in my ass
not that there are multiple planes at the bottom of the sea, where all the stars fall and rest on the depths undisturbed. and now i get to create my own tree of life, my own plant, my own planet, and there will be many new cunt tree's :wink:

this place would've been totally awesome if i brought a girl here, so if you ever decide to be evil you should bring one with you!










do you guys also think they're the fruit of knowledge of good and evil?




If you're talking about the fruit from Genesis, then no. The ancient Israelites in all likely-hood did not use psilocybin mushrooms.


--------------------


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Offlinetsynna
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: sukhavati12]
    #18894751 - 09/26/13 04:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I chuckled over this one: "Before that, they just did not acknowledge evil, thus they chould not do evil, they could not become guilty." Thereby we are pasting a biased reading from a dubious theological angle, if we are thinking in "judeo-christian thoughts."

The reason I question this is due to the fact that not every follower of "judeo-christian thoughts" sees existence grid locked inside strict determinism; some who think "judeo-christian thoughts" believe in a free will argument (good and evil are clearly just choices). Take the "Free Will" Lucifer example: Pure angel loaded with Free Will makes a game changing decision. I think you follow my drift here.


Your pass at philosophy of mind via Kant also bares stains of neurological determinism. Not every philosopher of mind will see it your way (your way sounds much like bare footed behaviorism).

Cheers and have a great Thor's Day:)

P.S.
sukhavati12, can you give us a source to back up your claim?


Edited by tsynna (09/26/13 04:06 PM)


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Offlinesof4r0ckeRs1984
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: tsynna]
    #18900857 - 09/27/13 09:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tsynna said:
I chuckled over this one: "Before that, they just did not acknowledge evil, thus they chould not do evil, they could not become guilty." Thereby we are pasting a biased reading from a dubious theological angle, if we are thinking in "judeo-christian thoughts."

The reason I question this is due to the fact that not every follower of "judeo-christian thoughts" sees existence grid locked inside strict determinism; some who think "judeo-christian thoughts" believe in a free will argument (good and evil are clearly just choices). Take the "Free Will" Lucifer example: Pure angel loaded with Free Will makes a game changing decision. I think you follow my drift here.


Your pass at philosophy of mind via Kant also bares stains of neurological determinism. Not every philosopher of mind will see it your way (your way sounds much like bare footed behaviorism).

Cheers and have a great Thor's Day:)

P.S.
sukhavati12, can you give us a source to back up your claim?




I think you imagine my view grid locked in strict determinalism... which gives me room to think about your perception and afficiation when reading my previous post.
The information goes from the retina to the optical nerve and gets sucked up by your brain cells so you can think about it, but then it's already too late and you already got afficiated.

Why did you write this particular answer if you have a free will? Edit: I mean, not that you don't have one. How about some game changing peace treaty decision?


Edited by sof4r0ckeRs1984 (09/27/13 09:48 PM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: sof4r0ckeRs1984]
    #18901561 - 09/28/13 05:16 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

as I have said before there isd an innate knowing of what is not-good, otherwise known as evil. If someone's child is hjarmed most people know that is not good. But in our culture there are forces that mindcontrol you to think that what happens to your child is good. so in that respect you are duped. You have lost the knowledge to see right from wrong. WHAT do you think that when invaders have gone into indigenous peoples communities and force them to their schools which makes them--via violence--give up their own language is for? It is to mindcontrol them towards the values of the invaders. Thjose values are not good as OUR experience is showing us (I hope it is for you), as they have a war industry where they are killing countless innocents including children babies, and spreading toxic contaminates everywhere that last for hundreds and hundreds of years, and horrifically affect DNA. This is NOT good is it? And yet some people will support this evil shit? Why?


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Offlinesof4r0ckeRs1984
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: zzripz]
    #18901792 - 09/28/13 07:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You got me terribly wrong.
I'm talking about a doctrine. Not what humans made of it. Humans who were all able to acknowledge and do evil. It's only about the doctrine first.

But hey, scissor and stone have easy game with the paper.


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OfflineRockhound
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: sof4r0ckeRs1984]
    #18901805 - 09/28/13 07:43 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Back on topic, there is no doubt visionary plants have had a profound impact on the evolution of human intelligence, innovation, communication, and religion.
Anyone read Terrance Mckenna?


--------------------
Rocks speak to me, and tell me this:
The Hell Creek formation is a gigantic slab of rocks that covers several western states. It contains an account of the dinosaurs' demise.  In the late Cretaceous period, the first Cannabis species appear, and soon after, all the non-bird dinosaurs disappeared. Obviously, marihuana killed the dinosaurs. That giant meteor that smacked the yucatan peninsula right afterwards, coincidence.


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Offlinesof4r0ckeRs1984
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: Rockhound]
    #18901932 - 09/28/13 08:40 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Mckenna has got some interesting thoughts but he's getting carried away.

Boy I'm getting the impression that this is three acccounts by the same person.
The OP, the Moderator, the Fool.
Rock - Paper - Scissor - complete.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: sof4r0ckeRs1984]
    #18902127 - 09/28/13 09:53 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength"

-Orwell

but not after psychedelics ;-)
they make you question everything, but most people don't like questioning their reality

that is why I think it is important that they be shared with people you know that want to try
they can help you find yourself
if you are not yourself but something else, you can never think clearly

meditation can do it too

psychedelics do it by dissolving our fake identity often, but it requires the person doing it being ready for it
(if anyone is ever ready for it...)


Edited by lessismore (09/28/13 10:00 AM)


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Offlinesukhavati12
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: sof4r0ckeRs1984]
    #18903017 - 09/28/13 02:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tsynna said:
I chuckled over this one: "Before that, they just did not acknowledge evil, thus they chould not do evil, they could not become guilty." Thereby we are pasting a biased reading from a dubious theological angle, if we are thinking in "judeo-christian thoughts."

The reason I question this is due to the fact that not every follower of "judeo-christian thoughts" sees existence grid locked inside strict determinism; some who think "judeo-christian thoughts" believe in a free will argument (good and evil are clearly just choices). Take the "Free Will" Lucifer example: Pure angel loaded with Free Will makes a game changing decision. I think you follow my drift here.


Your pass at philosophy of mind via Kant also bares stains of neurological determinism. Not every philosopher of mind will see it your way (your way sounds much like bare footed behaviorism).

Cheers and have a great Thor's Day:)

P.S.
sukhavati12, can you give us a source to back up your claim?




There is no evidence at all that ancient Israelites used psilocybin. I don't need to give a source for that any more than I need to give a source for them having not used ayahuasca.
Quote:

sof4r0ckeRs1984 said:
Mckenna has got some interesting thoughts but he's getting carried away.

Boy I'm getting the impression that this is three acccounts by the same person.
The OP, the Moderator, the Fool.
Rock - Paper - Scissor - complete.




Right, Terrence Mckenna's theories are interesting to think about, but it's easy to tell that they rely heavily on pseudoscience and unsubstantiated claims. I like his views on the psychadelic experience, but when he talks about history, evolution and cosmology he sounds more like Giorgio Tsoukalos.


--------------------


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: Rockhound]
    #18904708 - 09/28/13 09:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Rockhound said:
Back on topic, there is no doubt visionary plants have had a profound impact on the evolution of human intelligence, innovation, communication, and religion.
Anyone read Terrance Mckenna?




No, thank god. :lol:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflineGreySatyr
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18904719 - 09/28/13 09:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Psychedelics are what you want them to be. Or they're what you don't want them to be. They manifest themselves differently depending on your set(mind) at the time of ingestion. I thought that was day one stuff? Haha


--------------------
...also, go to hell, huh?


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OfflineRockhound
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Re: shrooms are the fruit of knowledge of good and evil??? [Re: GreySatyr]
    #18904874 - 09/28/13 10:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I did not mean mckenna is a brilliant scientist, simply that he has some good ideas.


--------------------
Rocks speak to me, and tell me this:
The Hell Creek formation is a gigantic slab of rocks that covers several western states. It contains an account of the dinosaurs' demise.  In the late Cretaceous period, the first Cannabis species appear, and soon after, all the non-bird dinosaurs disappeared. Obviously, marihuana killed the dinosaurs. That giant meteor that smacked the yucatan peninsula right afterwards, coincidence.


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