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Offlinewestthebest
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monotub questions
    #18901876 - 09/28/13 08:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

couple things I was looking to clarify about monotubs, does it matter the size of the holes?  didn't find many teks with specific measurements.  and also, if you're working with a black tub, is the bag at the bottom to prevent under pinning (?) not necessary?  new to cultivating mushrooms but taken aback by the simplicity of monotubs and damions coir tek for spawning to bulk- along with some of the brf cakes to bulk teks- thinking about giving it a shot, has anyone has much success going this route during their first few grows?  thanks.


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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18901917 - 09/28/13 08:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

westthebest said:
couple things I was looking to clarify about monotubs, does it matter the size of the holes?  didn't find many teks with specific measurements.  and also, if you're working with a black tub, is the bag at the bottom to prevent under pinning (?) not necessary?  new to cultivating mushrooms but taken aback by the simplicity of monotubs and damions coir tek for spawning to bulk- along with some of the brf cakes to bulk teks- thinking about giving it a shot, has anyone has much success going this route during their first few grows?  thanks.





Hole size:  I cannot say if it matters much at all.  I use 1-1/2" holes IIRC
Plastic liner:  Yes, you want to use one in a tub if you do not want fruits growing on the sides and bottom of the substrate.  They will grow where there is no liner.

I dunno if your black tub has a clear lid, but indirect light is almost a given understood requirement.  You will need some light to make the fruits happy.

I started this hobby with grains and bulk.  I skipped the PF method for a few reasons.  One being that I simply could not find the correct half pint wide mouth jars...The other was that after reading pages and pages of info, it seems that there is a natural progression from cakes to bulk.  Cakes need "baby sat".  I do not have the time to mist/fan more than twice a day.  I figured Id take the training wheels off and start big.  I certainly made more than a few mistakes, and still do. 

It is a very easy process overall, but requires attention to detail throughout the entire process.  Good luck!

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17897163#17897163

That link is to "Frank's Get it done page".  There is a marvelous consolidation of info.  Frank's focus is on bulk, and if you follow his methods from the start, you will succeed.


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18901924 - 09/28/13 08:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I like to use 1.5 inch holes. The liner does more than just prevent light from getting to the substrate. As the sub shrinks the liner shrinks with it. This prevents fae on the sides and bottoms. Some people like side and bottom pins. I do not. I think they are a PITA


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Offlinekrunkmaster
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Re: monotub questions [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #18901925 - 09/28/13 08:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I am still a noob too, so if I am wrong on any of these hopefully someone will correct me!


size of the holes: you want around a 1.5" hole if you are using big tub (~60L). I just used 1.5" holes on my smaller tub and they do seem too big. if I make another small tub I'll probably do like 1" max.

bag at the bottom: this is intended to reduce side pinning, which normally occurs as the colonized substrate begins to pull away from the walls of the tub, leaving a gap. with a bag in place, the mycelium will "grab" onto it, bringing it in with the mycelium and preventing side pinning. the reason people want to prevent side pinning is simply because it is harder to harvest.


I am doing my first monotub grow right now and I too used damion's coir tek, but I think I would recommend real pasteurization instead.


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: monotub questions [Re: Stromrider]
    #18901927 - 09/28/13 08:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Definitely check out franks teks that whippy linked you to. Also check out tbags grow along here https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18654325


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #18901941 - 09/28/13 08:44 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Whippy said:
One being that I simply could not find the correct half pint wide mouth jars...



tell me about it man...  haha

well thanks for all the info guys, that helps a lot.  good to know on the plastic bag part.  krunkmaster, why would recommend pasteurization instead?


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Offlinekrunkmaster
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18901955 - 09/28/13 08:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

westthebest said:
krunkmaster, why would recommend pasteurization instead?



it's just something I see mentioned a lot on this site. I think damion's method can work, and many people have great success with it and never have a reason to do anything else, but it is not true pasteurization and leaves the possibility of contams if anything goes wrong. like I said, I used it for my current grow, which seems to be going okay now, but it did not colonize 100% for some reason. I have to wonder if it was because of skipping real pasteurization.

who knows man, you might be fine with it. I'm just saying that if you have the choice between both, pasteurization is the "proper" way to do it, whereas using a bucket is kind of taking a shortcut. not trying to scare you off from trying it though, just some advice from a fellow noob :thumbup:


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: krunkmaster]
    #18903710 - 09/28/13 05:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

krunkmaster said:
Quote:

westthebest said:
krunkmaster, why would recommend pasteurization instead?



it's just something I see mentioned a lot on this site. I think damion's method can work, and many people have great success with it and never have a reason to do anything else, but it is not true pasteurization and leaves the possibility of contams if anything goes wrong. like I said, I used it for my current grow, which seems to be going okay now, but it did not colonize 100% for some reason. I have to wonder if it was because of skipping real pasteurization.

who knows man, you might be fine with it. I'm just saying that if you have the choice between both, pasteurization is the "proper" way to do it, whereas using a bucket is kind of taking a shortcut. not trying to scare you off from trying it though, just some advice from a fellow noob :thumbup:



that definitely makes sense, reading up on the proper pasteurization tek right now.  do you need a pressure cooker for such pasteurization or does a regular pot work...?


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Offlinekrunkmaster
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18903805 - 09/28/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think a regular pot should work fine, probably just using the PC because when he leaves the lid off it becomes the biggest pot he has :lol:


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Offlineretaardvark
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18903814 - 09/28/13 06:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

westthebest said:
that definitely makes sense, reading up on the proper pasteurization tek right now.  do you need a pressure cooker for such pasteurization or does a regular pot work...?




Frank's Tek, i.e. the only pasteurization tek I'll ever use, calls for one, as putting the lid on loosely (along with the thick walls of the PC) helps even out and hold temperature.

Just make sure you maintain 140-160 F for 60-90 minutes, cooling quickly afterward, and you can totally use a pot or whatever you have on hand. Just be aware that if you're following stove settings and time laid out in a technique that uses a PC, you will need to adjust settings and time accordingly.


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: retaardvark]
    #18904914 - 09/28/13 10:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

retaardvark said:
Quote:

westthebest said:
that definitely makes sense, reading up on the proper pasteurization tek right now.  do you need a pressure cooker for such pasteurization or does a regular pot work...?




Frank's Tek, i.e. the only pasteurization tek I'll ever use, calls for one, as putting the lid on loosely (along with the thick walls of the PC) helps even out and hold temperature.

Just make sure you maintain 140-160 F for 60-90 minutes, cooling quickly afterward, and you can totally use a pot or whatever you have on hand. Just be aware that if you're following stove settings and time laid out in a technique that uses a PC, you will need to adjust settings and time accordingly.



yeah I was wonder how to adjust accordingly haha.  but thanks for the help, anyone else here have experience with proper pasteurization with a normal pot?


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18904959 - 09/28/13 10:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think most of us doing bulk uses out pc to pasteurize in because for 1 we all have one handy and 2 it is the biggest pot we have :shrug:


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: Stromrider]
    #18905138 - 09/28/13 11:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psillyshroomer said:
I think most of us doing bulk uses out pc to pasteurize in because for 1 we all have one handy and 2 it is the biggest pot we have :shrug:



assuming you didn't have one though...  no problem?

and while I'm at it I might as well fire off a few pc questions....  what size of pc should one be going for?  how much do they run?  are they really worth it?

thanks.  you guys kill it.


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Offlinekrunkmaster
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18905195 - 09/29/13 12:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I got a small PC and I regret it. I was watching RR's videos where he mentions the all-american 921 and was shocked at the number of quart jars he was stacking in that bitch. I can only fit 2 quarts in mine and that's if I lay them on their side. the one I got was less than 100 bucks. the one RR has in his videos is a little over 200 bucks from a quick search. if you can afford it they're absolutely worth it, I don't think you can really do anything but BRF cakes without it (I might be completely wrong about that but I know boiling is never mentioned as an option for rye). it's come in handy for me a bunch of times. it's the kind of thing that's really worth investing in imo.

edit: and I think for pasteurization all that really matters is that you hit the required temp for the right amount of time and then let it cool rapidly. so a PC is not necessary if you can achieve that with a pot, but it just may be a bit more work or experimenting to do so.


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: krunkmaster]
    #18905221 - 09/29/13 12:13 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

krunkmaster said:
edit: and I think for pasteurization all that really matters is that you hit the required temp for the right amount of time and then let it cool rapidly. so a PC is not necessary if you can achieve that with a pot, but it just may be a bit more work or experimenting to do so.



good answer.  thank you.  but yes this is the exact dilema I face...  I could easily justify spending less than 100$ on a pc but I know the size would probably be impractically small, but over $100 I'm not rushing to spend...


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18905366 - 09/29/13 12:59 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

and to follow up on something touched on earlier in the thread, what is so bad about side/bottom pinning?  are the mushrooms really THAT much of a bitch to harvest?  seems almost convenient, you've got what you would have without side/bottom pinning, plus additional mushrooms at the cost that they are harder to work with...?


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Invisiblecynical bastad
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18905605 - 09/29/13 02:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I was trying for the presto 23 qt that psilly mentioned before, they didn't have any and I got a 16qt for $55. It holds 7 qts, I think the 23 holds the 7 down low w/ a few up top, it's around $75.

Remember if your sides are going crazy your loosing water and nutrients that were going to your top growth as well, it may all even out in the end, I'm not sure.


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: cynical bastad]
    #18905659 - 09/29/13 02:44 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cynical bastad said:
Remember if your sides are going crazy your loosing water and nutrients that were going to your top growth as well, it may all even out in the end, I'm not sure.



I was just thinking about this.  read some very interesting threads about going no liner/bag but sounds like a liner might be the way to go in the end.

and a 16 quart for 55$?  damn.  did the quality suffer at all...?  I would need a large stock pot anyways for this so if a decent large pc is only 50-75$ I don't see why not


Edited by westthebest (09/29/13 02:46 AM)


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Invisiblecynical bastad
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18905692 - 09/29/13 03:02 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

westthebest said:

and a 16 quart for 55$?  damn.  did the quality suffer at all...?  I would need a large stock pot anyways for this so if a decent large pc is only 50-75$ I don't see why not




Yeah it's probably close to the bottom of the barrel, being sold at Walmart and what not.  But to get started, sure, why not. It may last a long ass time, w/ changing gaskets and what not. :shrug: 

Just don't get the ones w a rocker weight, they don't have an option for gauge and usually only get from 12-14psi


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: cynical bastad]
    #18905809 - 09/29/13 04:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

worth it to upgrade to a 23 over a 16?  does it work well for you?  definitely considering it if even a cheap one is worth it.


Edited by westthebest (09/29/13 04:30 AM)


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Offlineretaardvark
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18906096 - 09/29/13 07:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

westthebest said:
yeah I was wonder how to adjust accordingly haha.  but thanks for the help, anyone else here have experience with proper pasteurization with a normal pot?




You use a thermometer and measure the temperature versus time. It looses heat more quickly, so be prepared to turn it back on for a couple minutes if need-be for the first few runs until you know what works. There's no way anybody can tell you exact time changes and measurements to make for your setup -- that's your work.


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: retaardvark]
    #18907280 - 09/29/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

retaardvark said:
Quote:

westthebest said:
yeah I was wonder how to adjust accordingly haha.  but thanks for the help, anyone else here have experience with proper pasteurization with a normal pot?




You use a thermometer and measure the temperature versus time. It looses heat more quickly, so be prepared to turn it back on for a couple minutes if need-be for the first few runs until you know what works. There's no way anybody can tell you exact time changes and measurements to make for your setup -- that's your work.



thanks, that's really all I was wondering.  considering investing in a pc today though...
to cynical bastad, yeah, that's what it looked like to me too, just a bit taller.  can you fit pints in the 16qt?


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18908514 - 09/29/13 07:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The 16 qt will fit 7 qt jars. I am not sure how many pints. Probably about 10 or so. I like the 23 qt because it is taller and if you go to start working with agar and get you a nice media bottle like this one you'll need the taller one. Amazon has the 23 qt presto brand new for $74!



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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: Stromrider]
    #18909071 - 09/29/13 09:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psillyshroomer said:
The 16 qt will fit 7 qt jars. I am not sure how many pints. Probably about 10 or so. I like the 23 qt because it is taller and if you go to start working with agar and get you a nice media bottle like this one you'll need the taller one. Amazon has the 23 qt presto brand new for $74!





nice.  well sounds like I could definitely get away with a 16qt seeing as I'm not looking to spend a whole lot.


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Re: monotub questions [Re: Stromrider]
    #18909122 - 09/29/13 09:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psillyshroomer said:
The 16 qt will fit 7 qt jars. I am not sure how many pints. Probably about 10 or so. I like the 23 qt because it is taller and if you go to start working with agar and get you a nice media bottle like this one you'll need the taller one. Amazon has the 23 qt presto brand new for $74!







  Thanks for the heads up. Just ordered mine today. Presto sucks IMO, but money is tight so do what you gotta do.  I had a 16qrt rocker style, but I can't fit a qrt jar standing up in it.


  Presto vs A.A  All American look like it will win every time.


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Offlinekrunkmaster
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Re: monotub questions [Re: Sockadin]
    #18909222 - 09/29/13 09:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

this thread has convinced me I need to upgrade my PC as well :lol:


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: Sockadin]
    #18909366 - 09/29/13 10:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Quote:

psillyshroomer said:
The 16 qt will fit 7 qt jars. I am not sure how many pints. Probably about 10 or so. I like the 23 qt because it is taller and if you go to start working with agar and get you a nice media bottle like this one you'll need the taller one. Amazon has the 23 qt presto brand new for $74!







  Thanks for the heads up. Just ordered mine today. Presto sucks IMO, but money is tight so do what you gotta do.  I had a 16qrt rocker style, but I can't fit a qrt jar standing up in it.


  Presto vs A.A  All American look like it will win every time.



but how bad does presto suck?  worse than AA for sure but hopefully it will get the job done.


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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18909963 - 09/30/13 04:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The presto does not suck. It gets the job done just fine


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: Stromrider]
    #18911750 - 09/30/13 03:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

sooo where do you guys get your PCs? I was under the impression I could just go to walmart but there was nowhere near even a 16qt there...


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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18911831 - 09/30/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Walmart generally carries 16qt monotubs for around $66. I have one and it works well. If you have a bed bath and beyond near you, they have a coupon that allows you to purchase their 23qrt presto for something like $88 which is definitely worth it. Amazon and Ebay are also good places to shop for pc's


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: Sagescruffy]
    #18911845 - 09/30/13 03:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I guess my walmart blows


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Re: monotub questions [Re: Sagescruffy]
    #18911904 - 09/30/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sagescruffy said:
Walmart generally carries 16qt monotubs for around $66. I have one and it works well. If you have a bed bath and beyond near you, they have a coupon that allows you to purchase their 23qrt presto for something like $88 which is definitely worth it. Amazon and Ebay are also good places to shop for pc's



I assume you mean 16qt PC :biggrin:

I got mine on Amazon. there's actually a mushroom cultivation store right near me that sells All Americans though. I might pick one up from there just to support such a cool store.


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Re: monotub questions [Re: krunkmaster]
    #18911914 - 09/30/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

What city is the cultivation store in?


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Re: monotub questions [Re: krunkmaster]
    #18911915 - 09/30/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

ah yeah good catch! I lol'd :lol:


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Re: monotub questions [Re: Stromrider]
    #18911966 - 09/30/13 04:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psillyshroomer said:
What city is the cultivation store in?



is it paranoid of me to not want to say? :stars:


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Re: monotub questions [Re: krunkmaster]
    #18912024 - 09/30/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

No I was just curious because there is one near me in Asheville NC. I was wondering if it was the same place. Maybe it is a little paranoid :lol:


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Re: monotub questions [Re: Stromrider]
    #18912034 - 09/30/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

lol, this is in Knoxville... I think they actually sponsor Shroomery


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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18913196 - 09/30/13 09:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

westthebest said:
I guess my walmart blows



That, and Pressure cookers are only in-store for a few months.  They also suck because they will have Christmas trees up right now.  Bird food damn near vanished also at ours.


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Re: monotub questions [Re: krunkmaster]
    #18913340 - 09/30/13 09:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

krunkmaster said:
lol, this is in Knoxville... I think they actually sponsor Shroomery




Well that isn't very far from Asheville at all


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Offlinewestthebest
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Registered: 09/17/11
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Re: monotub questions [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #18913596 - 09/30/13 10:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Whippy said:
Quote:

westthebest said:
I guess my walmart blows



That, and Pressure cookers are only in-store for a few months.  They also suck because they will have Christmas trees up right now.  Bird food damn near vanished also at ours.



anywhere else to get em?  or online...


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18913609 - 09/30/13 10:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Check amazon. They have the best deal on the 23 qt presto. It is $74


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InvisibleGretchenmeister
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18913626 - 09/30/13 10:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

westthebest said:
couple things I was looking to clarify about monotubs, does it matter the size of the holes?  didn't find many teks with specific measurements.  and also, if you're working with a black tub, is the bag at the bottom to prevent under pinning (?) not necessary?  new to cultivating mushrooms but taken aback by the simplicity of monotubs and damions coir tek for spawning to bulk- along with some of the brf cakes to bulk teks- thinking about giving it a shot, has anyone has much success going this route during their first few grows?  thanks.





The bag is optional if you have an opaque tub, some say its required, but its a hassle imo, and gets all yucky, and also can prevent the sub from reuptaking water if water is dripping down the sides of your tub, and under the liner.

Holes needa be 1-2", and be set every 5" or so apart, just above the substrate level.

My very first bulk grows were done with pf cakes to poo via the Simple Invitro Poo Bag tek by hydr0420, and Ohmatic's original monotub tek, minus the liner... even ohm gave up the liner when using opaque tubs.


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: Gretchenmeister]
    #18916088 - 10/01/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gretchenmeister said:
Quote:

westthebest said:
couple things I was looking to clarify about monotubs, does it matter the size of the holes?  didn't find many teks with specific measurements.  and also, if you're working with a black tub, is the bag at the bottom to prevent under pinning (?) not necessary?  new to cultivating mushrooms but taken aback by the simplicity of monotubs and damions coir tek for spawning to bulk- along with some of the brf cakes to bulk teks- thinking about giving it a shot, has anyone has much success going this route during their first few grows?  thanks.





The bag is optional if you have an opaque tub, some say its required, but its a hassle imo, and gets all yucky, and also can prevent the sub from reuptaking water if water is dripping down the sides of your tub, and under the liner.

Holes needa be 1-2", and be set every 5" or so apart, just above the substrate level.

My very first bulk grows were done with pf cakes to poo via the Simple Invitro Poo Bag tek by hydr0420, and Ohmatic's original monotub tek, minus the liner... even ohm gave up the liner when using opaque tubs.



you make some good points.  why is it that you don't need a liner with an opaque tub though?


Edited by westthebest (10/01/13 12:56 PM)


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