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Offlinewestthebest
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Registered: 09/17/11
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monotub questions
    #18901876 - 09/28/13 08:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

couple things I was looking to clarify about monotubs, does it matter the size of the holes?  didn't find many teks with specific measurements.  and also, if you're working with a black tub, is the bag at the bottom to prevent under pinning (?) not necessary?  new to cultivating mushrooms but taken aback by the simplicity of monotubs and damions coir tek for spawning to bulk- along with some of the brf cakes to bulk teks- thinking about giving it a shot, has anyone has much success going this route during their first few grows?  thanks.


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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18901917 - 09/28/13 08:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

westthebest said:
couple things I was looking to clarify about monotubs, does it matter the size of the holes?  didn't find many teks with specific measurements.  and also, if you're working with a black tub, is the bag at the bottom to prevent under pinning (?) not necessary?  new to cultivating mushrooms but taken aback by the simplicity of monotubs and damions coir tek for spawning to bulk- along with some of the brf cakes to bulk teks- thinking about giving it a shot, has anyone has much success going this route during their first few grows?  thanks.





Hole size:  I cannot say if it matters much at all.  I use 1-1/2" holes IIRC
Plastic liner:  Yes, you want to use one in a tub if you do not want fruits growing on the sides and bottom of the substrate.  They will grow where there is no liner.

I dunno if your black tub has a clear lid, but indirect light is almost a given understood requirement.  You will need some light to make the fruits happy.

I started this hobby with grains and bulk.  I skipped the PF method for a few reasons.  One being that I simply could not find the correct half pint wide mouth jars...The other was that after reading pages and pages of info, it seems that there is a natural progression from cakes to bulk.  Cakes need "baby sat".  I do not have the time to mist/fan more than twice a day.  I figured Id take the training wheels off and start big.  I certainly made more than a few mistakes, and still do. 

It is a very easy process overall, but requires attention to detail throughout the entire process.  Good luck!

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17897163#17897163

That link is to "Frank's Get it done page".  There is a marvelous consolidation of info.  Frank's focus is on bulk, and if you follow his methods from the start, you will succeed.


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18901924 - 09/28/13 08:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I like to use 1.5 inch holes. The liner does more than just prevent light from getting to the substrate. As the sub shrinks the liner shrinks with it. This prevents fae on the sides and bottoms. Some people like side and bottom pins. I do not. I think they are a PITA


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Offlinekrunkmaster
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Re: monotub questions [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #18901925 - 09/28/13 08:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I am still a noob too, so if I am wrong on any of these hopefully someone will correct me!


size of the holes: you want around a 1.5" hole if you are using big tub (~60L). I just used 1.5" holes on my smaller tub and they do seem too big. if I make another small tub I'll probably do like 1" max.

bag at the bottom: this is intended to reduce side pinning, which normally occurs as the colonized substrate begins to pull away from the walls of the tub, leaving a gap. with a bag in place, the mycelium will "grab" onto it, bringing it in with the mycelium and preventing side pinning. the reason people want to prevent side pinning is simply because it is harder to harvest.


I am doing my first monotub grow right now and I too used damion's coir tek, but I think I would recommend real pasteurization instead.


--------------------
Thou shalt not kill my vibe


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: monotub questions [Re: Stromrider]
    #18901927 - 09/28/13 08:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Definitely check out franks teks that whippy linked you to. Also check out tbags grow along here https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18654325


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Offlinewestthebest
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Registered: 09/17/11
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Re: monotub questions [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #18901941 - 09/28/13 08:44 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Whippy said:
One being that I simply could not find the correct half pint wide mouth jars...



tell me about it man...  haha

well thanks for all the info guys, that helps a lot.  good to know on the plastic bag part.  krunkmaster, why would recommend pasteurization instead?


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Offlinekrunkmaster
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18901955 - 09/28/13 08:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

westthebest said:
krunkmaster, why would recommend pasteurization instead?



it's just something I see mentioned a lot on this site. I think damion's method can work, and many people have great success with it and never have a reason to do anything else, but it is not true pasteurization and leaves the possibility of contams if anything goes wrong. like I said, I used it for my current grow, which seems to be going okay now, but it did not colonize 100% for some reason. I have to wonder if it was because of skipping real pasteurization.

who knows man, you might be fine with it. I'm just saying that if you have the choice between both, pasteurization is the "proper" way to do it, whereas using a bucket is kind of taking a shortcut. not trying to scare you off from trying it though, just some advice from a fellow noob :thumbup:


--------------------
Thou shalt not kill my vibe


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: krunkmaster]
    #18903710 - 09/28/13 05:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

krunkmaster said:
Quote:

westthebest said:
krunkmaster, why would recommend pasteurization instead?



it's just something I see mentioned a lot on this site. I think damion's method can work, and many people have great success with it and never have a reason to do anything else, but it is not true pasteurization and leaves the possibility of contams if anything goes wrong. like I said, I used it for my current grow, which seems to be going okay now, but it did not colonize 100% for some reason. I have to wonder if it was because of skipping real pasteurization.

who knows man, you might be fine with it. I'm just saying that if you have the choice between both, pasteurization is the "proper" way to do it, whereas using a bucket is kind of taking a shortcut. not trying to scare you off from trying it though, just some advice from a fellow noob :thumbup:



that definitely makes sense, reading up on the proper pasteurization tek right now.  do you need a pressure cooker for such pasteurization or does a regular pot work...?


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Offlinekrunkmaster
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18903805 - 09/28/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think a regular pot should work fine, probably just using the PC because when he leaves the lid off it becomes the biggest pot he has :lol:


--------------------
Thou shalt not kill my vibe


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Offlineretaardvark
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18903814 - 09/28/13 06:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

westthebest said:
that definitely makes sense, reading up on the proper pasteurization tek right now.  do you need a pressure cooker for such pasteurization or does a regular pot work...?




Frank's Tek, i.e. the only pasteurization tek I'll ever use, calls for one, as putting the lid on loosely (along with the thick walls of the PC) helps even out and hold temperature.

Just make sure you maintain 140-160 F for 60-90 minutes, cooling quickly afterward, and you can totally use a pot or whatever you have on hand. Just be aware that if you're following stove settings and time laid out in a technique that uses a PC, you will need to adjust settings and time accordingly.


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: retaardvark]
    #18904914 - 09/28/13 10:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

retaardvark said:
Quote:

westthebest said:
that definitely makes sense, reading up on the proper pasteurization tek right now.  do you need a pressure cooker for such pasteurization or does a regular pot work...?




Frank's Tek, i.e. the only pasteurization tek I'll ever use, calls for one, as putting the lid on loosely (along with the thick walls of the PC) helps even out and hold temperature.

Just make sure you maintain 140-160 F for 60-90 minutes, cooling quickly afterward, and you can totally use a pot or whatever you have on hand. Just be aware that if you're following stove settings and time laid out in a technique that uses a PC, you will need to adjust settings and time accordingly.



yeah I was wonder how to adjust accordingly haha.  but thanks for the help, anyone else here have experience with proper pasteurization with a normal pot?


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18904959 - 09/28/13 10:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think most of us doing bulk uses out pc to pasteurize in because for 1 we all have one handy and 2 it is the biggest pot we have :shrug:


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: Stromrider]
    #18905138 - 09/28/13 11:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psillyshroomer said:
I think most of us doing bulk uses out pc to pasteurize in because for 1 we all have one handy and 2 it is the biggest pot we have :shrug:



assuming you didn't have one though...  no problem?

and while I'm at it I might as well fire off a few pc questions....  what size of pc should one be going for?  how much do they run?  are they really worth it?

thanks.  you guys kill it.


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Offlinekrunkmaster
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18905195 - 09/29/13 12:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I got a small PC and I regret it. I was watching RR's videos where he mentions the all-american 921 and was shocked at the number of quart jars he was stacking in that bitch. I can only fit 2 quarts in mine and that's if I lay them on their side. the one I got was less than 100 bucks. the one RR has in his videos is a little over 200 bucks from a quick search. if you can afford it they're absolutely worth it, I don't think you can really do anything but BRF cakes without it (I might be completely wrong about that but I know boiling is never mentioned as an option for rye). it's come in handy for me a bunch of times. it's the kind of thing that's really worth investing in imo.

edit: and I think for pasteurization all that really matters is that you hit the required temp for the right amount of time and then let it cool rapidly. so a PC is not necessary if you can achieve that with a pot, but it just may be a bit more work or experimenting to do so.


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: krunkmaster]
    #18905221 - 09/29/13 12:13 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

krunkmaster said:
edit: and I think for pasteurization all that really matters is that you hit the required temp for the right amount of time and then let it cool rapidly. so a PC is not necessary if you can achieve that with a pot, but it just may be a bit more work or experimenting to do so.



good answer.  thank you.  but yes this is the exact dilema I face...  I could easily justify spending less than 100$ on a pc but I know the size would probably be impractically small, but over $100 I'm not rushing to spend...


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18905366 - 09/29/13 12:59 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

and to follow up on something touched on earlier in the thread, what is so bad about side/bottom pinning?  are the mushrooms really THAT much of a bitch to harvest?  seems almost convenient, you've got what you would have without side/bottom pinning, plus additional mushrooms at the cost that they are harder to work with...?


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Invisiblecynical bastad
another guy
Registered: 08/17/13
Posts: 175
Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18905605 - 09/29/13 02:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I was trying for the presto 23 qt that psilly mentioned before, they didn't have any and I got a 16qt for $55. It holds 7 qts, I think the 23 holds the 7 down low w/ a few up top, it's around $75.

Remember if your sides are going crazy your loosing water and nutrients that were going to your top growth as well, it may all even out in the end, I'm not sure.


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: cynical bastad]
    #18905659 - 09/29/13 02:44 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cynical bastad said:
Remember if your sides are going crazy your loosing water and nutrients that were going to your top growth as well, it may all even out in the end, I'm not sure.



I was just thinking about this.  read some very interesting threads about going no liner/bag but sounds like a liner might be the way to go in the end.

and a 16 quart for 55$?  damn.  did the quality suffer at all...?  I would need a large stock pot anyways for this so if a decent large pc is only 50-75$ I don't see why not


Edited by westthebest (09/29/13 02:46 AM)


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Invisiblecynical bastad
another guy
Registered: 08/17/13
Posts: 175
Re: monotub questions [Re: westthebest]
    #18905692 - 09/29/13 03:02 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

westthebest said:

and a 16 quart for 55$?  damn.  did the quality suffer at all...?  I would need a large stock pot anyways for this so if a decent large pc is only 50-75$ I don't see why not




Yeah it's probably close to the bottom of the barrel, being sold at Walmart and what not.  But to get started, sure, why not. It may last a long ass time, w/ changing gaskets and what not. :shrug: 

Just don't get the ones w a rocker weight, they don't have an option for gauge and usually only get from 12-14psi


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: monotub questions [Re: cynical bastad]
    #18905809 - 09/29/13 04:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

worth it to upgrade to a 23 over a 16?  does it work well for you?  definitely considering it if even a cheap one is worth it.


Edited by westthebest (09/29/13 04:30 AM)


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