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InvisiblePanick
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What is krokodil? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S.
    #18899413 - 09/27/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Krokodil, a dangerous, heroin-like narcotic that rapidly rots flesh, may have made its first appearance in the United States, according to Arizona health officials.

This week, toxicologists at the Banner Good Samaritan Poison and Drug Information Center in Phoenix said they had seen a "handful" of patients believed to have taken krokodil. The drug has been around for a decade and became a serious problem in Russia, but its use has never before been documented in the States.

"As far as I know, these are the first cases in the United States that are reported," Dr. Frank LoVecchio, a co-medical director at the center, told the local CBS affiliate. "So we're extremely frightened."

The drug, officially known as Desomorphine, is a concoction made by cooking codeine with other ingredients, including iodine and red phosphorous — the stuff match strike pads are made of. It can also include noxious additives like paint thinner, gasoline, lighter fluid, and hydrochloric acid.

Given the ingredient list, it's not surprising then that the drug has some gruesome, sometimes fatal, side effects.

Krokodil causes the skin to turn a scaly, reptilian green around the area where it is injected. Hence the name, which, as you may have guessed, is Russian for "crocodile."

When used repeatedly, it leaves festering, pungent sores and ruptured blood vessels, causing skin and muscle tissue to rot from the inside — in extreme cases, leaving users' bones exposed through gaping holes. It can also cause permanent brain damage, resulting in speech impediments and spastic movements that, combined with the nasty skin-related symptoms, have led some to dub it a zombie drug.

Though users may think they've filtered the harmful chemicals out of the mixture before injecting it into their bodies, "there is still remnants of it," LoVecchio said. "You can imagine just injecting a little bit of it into your veins can cause a lot of damage."

The average life expectancy for krokodil addicts in Russia is two to three years, according to TIME.

So why in the name of all that's good would anyone want to try krokodil?

For one, it's incredibly cheap compared to heroin. It's essentially the meth of opiates, its primary ingredient found in easily obtainable cold medicine tablets. A single injection can cost one-tenth the price of a similar-sized dosage of heroin.

And much like heroin, it's hard to kick the habit once hooked. The high wears off after less than two hours, leaving users with painful withdrawal symptoms. Worse, though, is that the withdrawal can last longer than a month, compared to a week for heroin withdrawal.

The drug emerged in Siberia back in 2002 and quickly spread across Russia, eventually popping up in parts of Western Europe. But there have yet to be confirmed cases of it in the U.S. The Drug Enforcement Administration and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention don't even have any information about the drug on their websites, though a DEA official told Mother Jones they've been "scrambling to see what we know about the cases in Arizona."

For now, officials know of only a few suspected cases. However, there's reason to believe more may be on the way.

"Where there is smoke there is fire," LoVecchio said, "and we're afraid there are going to be more and more cases."

http://news.yahoo.com/krokodil-flesh-rotting-drug-comes-u-153400389.html

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: What is krokodil? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: Panick]
    #18899534 - 09/27/13 04:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

:awewtf:

Just when I thought Id heard it all


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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Offlinehidenseek1
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Re: What is krokodil? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: imachavel]
    #18899770 - 09/27/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

ABP
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/18895017

i agree with this

Quote:

mylfgur said:
Quote:

dokunai said:
But whatever we do, let's not legalize opiates.  Things work out better when people take a poorly prepared concoction from an unregulated underground lab, suffer major tissue damage, then inevitably wind up incarcerated for an insane and arbitrary number of years as dictated by drug war zealotry.  Yeah, that's the best solution.



Well, you see, "Krokodil" is normally made using a "legal" opiate. In Russia where the drug has seen the most popularity, it's made using an over-the-counter cough medicine with codeine in it, which is them converted to desomorphine which is the active chemical in "Krokodil".

I don't see this one catching on in the US in the foreseeable future because codeine cannot be purchased over-the-counter. Therefore, in order to make this drug in the US you would either have to be prescribed codeine or buy it on the black market, at which point any sensible user would be buying heroin instead.

The reason why desomorphine in the very unpure form of "Krocodil" is so popular in Russia is because they in some places have a very draconian crackdown on heroin and it's near unavailable, and you can just walk to the pharmacy and buy the codeine and convert it.




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OfflineSoundScape
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Re: What is krokodil? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: hidenseek1]
    #18900077 - 09/27/13 07:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

hidenseek1 said:
ABP
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/18895017

i agree with this

Quote:

mylfgur said:
Quote:

dokunai said:
But whatever we do, let's not legalize opiates.  Things work out better when people take a poorly prepared concoction from an unregulated underground lab, suffer major tissue damage, then inevitably wind up incarcerated for an insane and arbitrary number of years as dictated by drug war zealotry.  Yeah, that's the best solution.



Well, you see, "Krokodil" is normally made using a "legal" opiate. In Russia where the drug has seen the most popularity, it's made using an over-the-counter cough medicine with codeine in it, which is them converted to desomorphine which is the active chemical in "Krokodil".

I don't see this one catching on in the US in the foreseeable future because codeine cannot be purchased over-the-counter. Therefore, in order to make this drug in the US you would either have to be prescribed codeine or buy it on the black market, at which point any sensible user would be buying heroin instead.

The reason why desomorphine in the very unpure form of "Krocodil" is so popular in Russia is because they in some places have a very draconian crackdown on heroin and it's near unavailable, and you can just walk to the pharmacy and buy the codeine and convert it.







Not the same article. Very similiar, but it's a seperate source. Interesting how some of the info changes from source to source though; the number of cases in Arizona of Krokodil use, etc.


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

Registered: 09/29/06
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Re: What is krokodil? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: SoundScape]
    #18900535 - 09/27/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Honestly I'm starting to think this is a hoax like jenkim.

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Offlinehockeyplyr1057
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Re: What is krokodil? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #18901248 - 09/28/13 12:55 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Ya'll are late on hearing about this drug. Heard about this in Russia a while back from Vice (there is also a video link at the bottom of the page). Shit isn't a hoax and it's pretty fucked up.


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OfflineBig_Dave
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Re: What is krokodil? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: hockeyplyr1057]
    #18901664 - 09/28/13 06:18 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I love how they always list the ingredients to scare people. I understand the shit is still probably pretty fucked up but come on, its got to stop. Next we'll see someone like mayor Bloomberg coming out and saying shit like we need to ban salt cause its made with hydrochloric acid aka stomach acid and lye, the active ingredient in Nair. Do you want your kids eating stomach acid and Nair at every meal America!?!  Oh yeah, and cigarettes contain rat poison. Gimme a fuckin break.

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OfflineHybridprX
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Re: What is crocodile? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: Big_Dave]
    #18901719 - 09/28/13 06:54 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Big_Dave said:
I love how they always list the ingredients to scare people.




Those are the ingredients that are used....

Part of the chemical procedure to bond molecules between Transfrole to MDP2P is a solvent distilled of other elements to obtain DCM which is the primary structure in "Paint thinner"

Home depot, Lowe's etc have everything but the sassafras.

What people fail to understand and the articles don't clearly explain is that the compound that is crocodile is what causes the reactions to us as human beings.

Were organic carbon based life forms that inject synthetic compounds made from various other organic compounds that have been synthesized to produce a chemical compound.

Made easy, Human's are not ment to ingest these sorts of things although drug chemistry says otherwise.

The effects are from the compound breaking down upon injection, circulating in the users system and continuing to loose bonds which of course is going to cause internal bubbling of the skin, it's basically like a bunch of tiny explosions destroying tissue cells and god knows what else while passing threw the system.

Purity is not the issue with this compound, the side effects are the side effects. It's just like smoking pure meth every day for a year. That person would look like a toothless skeleton, every synthetic drug has side effects.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: What is crocodile? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: HybridprX]
    #18901996 - 09/28/13 09:03 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

For that matter all chemicals that get you high have side effects, considering they need to mimic chemicals that your body uses as basic neurotransmitters but are not the actual chemicals. And of course, all these chemicals break down. Thc is not water soluble it stores in your fat. When your body metabolises it the chemical reaction between the thc and enzyme that breaks it
down creates a chemical as a metabolite that can be detected in your pee

Of course Im comparing something that is harmless. Another example is lsd from what Ive researched online and I cant assure this with 100% certainty but lsd itself does not make you trip it over loads chemical sensors in your brain causing a chain reaction where your brain trips itself for hours sometimes even days, weeks, etc. but the lsd itself I believe is so sensitive to heat and your bodys ph that every single molecule within an hour is completely destroyed. I hope I accurately described that last one

The difference between the crap people do these days and before is before peope risked dependency etc. but generally one use of a drug wouldnt hurt you if you didnt overdose it was the addiction etc. long term use thatd destroy you

Now people are willing to synthesize shit where its beyond mdma, beyond 2cb or 2ci, its some shit so evil your body metabolizes the chemical and it breaks down into basically sulfuric acid in your skin. Its fucking crazy when I was a teenager I thought some pretty crazy shit existed but Id never HEARD of anything like this. Even crazy shit like beladonna or paint thinner well basically if it was that poisonous youd know when you were taking it that its basically killing you to get you high

Stuff you take that rots your skin after you use it? Ive just...... never even heard of that


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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OfflineMushie23
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Re: What is crocodile? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: imachavel]
    #18902092 - 09/28/13 09:38 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

There are some pics floating around on the net of hardcore Krokodil users.  The holes in their skin are horrible...like a meth addicts face, but much more extreme and all over the body.


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Offlineaperson444
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Re: What is crocodile? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: Mushie23]
    #18902328 - 09/28/13 11:04 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Purity is not the issue with this compound, the side effects are the side effects. It's just like smoking pure meth every day for a year. That person would look like a toothless skeleton, every synthetic drug has side effects.




Purity has a lot to do with the problems you see. The I2/P reduction produces hydroiodic acid as a byproduct. Hydrogen halides are fully soluble in water and won't be removed by simple filtration.

OTC Codeine probably also contains fillers and other compounds that might not be removed by facile extraction with solvents.

Recrystallized >95% desomorphine HCl is unlikely to be any more harmful than heroin HCl.

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InvisibleEdibleStereos
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Re: What is krokodil? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: hockeyplyr1057]
    #18902359 - 09/28/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

hockeyplyr1057 said:
Ya'll are late on hearing about this drug. Heard about this in Russia a while back from Vice (there is also a video link at the bottom of the page). Shit isn't a hoax and it's pretty fucked up.





Vice was late as hell on this as well. I first seen krokodil posts on the shroomery in 2008 I believe.

And I call a huge BS on this article.

You cant get codiene OTC in america. So right there is pretty much the only good thing about Krok. is that it was easy to make. If you dont have codiene, then you cant make it easily.

I could see it coming to canada. Maybe native communities or Vancouver, since in canada we have OTC canada.

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InvisibleSuperFly
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Re: What is krokodil? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: Panick]
    #18902574 - 09/28/13 12:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Probably the Russian government's way of lowering the homeless population and heroin addicts..

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OfflineFreedreamer
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Re: What is krokodil? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: SuperFly]
    #18904714 - 09/28/13 09:45 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

The real issue here is the nature of the black market; with its complete lack of quality control, for the common man, there is certainly no way of knowing exactly what is in the drug and the concentration of the drug and/or its impurities. This is why there is a pressing need for legalisation of recreational drugs...legalisation and quality control in much the same matter as pharmaceuticals such as aspirin for example. Some people have argued that legal substances such as "bath salts" and "synthetic marijuana" have been associated with severe health issues (and sometimes death) and yet, these substances are legal, but the problem here is that these substances are not regulated and quality tested in the same way as pharmaceuticals for the simple reason that they are not sold as drugs for human consumption so they do not qualify for the same sort of testing as food, alcohol and pharmaceuticals.
We need to acknowledge the fact that people can and will use drugs and thus re-shape and re-think our policies and mode of thinking. We must open our minds to the fact that people do want to experiment with drugs and thus do what we can to make things safer and to provide access to accurate and objective education. Unfortunately, I can't imagine such a radical change in mentality to occur any time soon.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: What is crocodile? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: aperson444]
    #18904745 - 09/28/13 09:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

aperson444 said:
Quote:

Purity is not the issue with this compound, the side effects are the side effects. It's just like smoking pure meth every day for a year. That person would look like a toothless skeleton, every synthetic drug has side effects.




Purity has a lot to do with the problems you see. The I2/P reduction produces hydroiodic acid as a byproduct. Hydrogen halides are fully soluble in water and won't be removed by simple filtration.

OTC Codeine probably also contains fillers and other compounds that might not be removed by facile extraction with solvents.

Recrystallized >95% desomorphine HCl is unlikely to be any more harmful than heroin HCl.




How much can you possibly purify something like this? Can you filter out the acid 100%? You use hydrochloric acid to make cocain hydrochloride instead of sulfate but doing lines of coke doesnt burn through your nose


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: What is crocodile? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: aperson444]
    #18904800 - 09/28/13 10:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

aperson444 said:
Quote:

Purity is not the issue with this compound, the side effects are the side effects. It's just like smoking pure meth every day for a year. That person would look like a toothless skeleton, every synthetic drug has side effects.




Purity has a lot to do with the problems you see. The I2/P reduction produces hydroiodic acid as a byproduct. Hydrogen halides are fully soluble in water and won't be removed by simple filtration.

OTC Codeine probably also contains fillers and other compounds that might not be removed by facile extraction with solvents.

Recrystallized >95% desomorphine HCl is unlikely to be any more harmful than heroin HCl.




Seems you are right, its simply desomorphine synthesized from codeine but made with harmful solvents that arent completely synthesized and/or filtered. Its compared to crack being the poor mans cocain and desomorphine being the poor mans heroin

http://io9.com/5859291/krokodil-russias-designer-drug-that-will-eat-your-flesh


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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OfflineHybridprX
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Re: What is crocodile? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: imachavel]
    #18906041 - 09/29/13 07:27 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Crack is not the poor mans cocaine lol

I lived with crackers for a good four years of my life. The reason people switch over to crack is because the cocaine no longer gets them the feeling of "Euphoria"

So they have to smoke coke thats been purified. Still, most crack dealers will get their supply and then press it with other stuff so it gains weight.

As for this krocadile stuff, I'd love for pro-krocadile advocates to cook it themselves to whatever purity and do it every day for a year and then come post pictures of the injection sites and any other noticeable symptoms that have been reported. (If you live long enough to tell us)

The drug chemistry itself is one thing but no one on here can tell us that the side effects are not the side effects if they're not using it themselves.


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Offlinehidenseek1
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Re: What is crocodile? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: HybridprX]
    #18906121 - 09/29/13 07:56 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

i remember reading a post, maybe in the other thread, that its harder to get clean solvents that evaporate completely in russia, is that true?  if it is, thatd makes u.s. desimorphenine safer right?


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InvisibleChinChiller
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Re: What is crocodile? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: hidenseek1]
    #18906132 - 09/29/13 08:02 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

That shit is real, but I only thought Russian Junkies were desperate enough... :evildog:

But I guess all junkies are desperate

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InvisibleEdibleStereos
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Re: What is crocodile? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: HybridprX]
    #18906946 - 09/29/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

HybridprX said:
Crack is not the poor mans cocaine lol

I lived with crackers for a good four years of my life. The reason people switch over to crack is because the cocaine no longer gets them the feeling of "Euphoria"

So they have to smoke coke thats been purified. Still, most crack dealers will get their supply and then press it with other stuff so it gains weight.

As for this krocadile stuff, I'd love for pro-krocadile advocates to cook it themselves to whatever purity and do it every day for a year and then come post pictures of the injection sites and any other noticeable symptoms that have been reported. (If you live long enough to tell us)

The drug chemistry itself is one thing but no one on here can tell us that the side effects are not the side effects if they're not using it themselves.





Quote:

HybridprX said:
Crack is not the poor mans cocaine lol

I lived with crackers for a good four years of my life. The reason people switch over to crack is because the cocaine no longer gets them the feeling of "Euphoria"

So they have to smoke coke thats been purified. Still, most crack dealers will get their supply and then press it with other stuff so it gains weight.

As for this krocadile stuff, I'd love for pro-krocadile advocates to cook it themselves to whatever purity and do it every day for a year and then come post pictures of the injection sites and any other noticeable symptoms that have been reported. (If you live long enough to tell us)

The drug chemistry itself is one thing but no one on here can tell us that the side effects are not the side effects if they're not using it themselves.




It isnt the desomorphine that is causing the health issues, it is the contaminants from production. The article and other research into this has shown that. Why are you arguing it?

If you have pure desomorphine, then these issues wont occur. Because it is NOT the desomorphine causing them.

Desomorphine was even sold in switzerland under the brand name Permonid.

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Offlineaperson444
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Re: What is crocodile? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: EdibleStereos]
    #18911236 - 09/30/13 01:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seems you are right, its simply desomorphine synthesized from codeine but made with harmful solvents that arent completely synthesized and/or filtered. Its compared to crack being the poor mans cocain and desomorphine being the poor mans heroin




Yup. Over-the-counter (not lab grade) solvents are typically mixed with many different compounds. For example, starter fluid is used as a source for ether, but it also contains petroleum distillates and sometimes hexane.

You can usually get rid of acidic residues and some impurities by recrystallizing from a solvent. Another option is to extract the freebase desomorphine with a solvent like ether or dichloromethane (most mineral acids are not soluble in these solvents) and then form the HCl salt. The problem is that few "krokodil" users have the time, patience or the means to perform a quality workup/purification, so they end up with <60% pure desomorphine with a lot of unreacted codeine and a decent amount of the reducing agent (which I assume is HI/P)... Shooting that into your veins will turn flesh into rotting meat in no time. Not to mention that codeine tends to evoke a lot of histamine release, and the pro-inflammatory response might worsen decay of flesh.

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Offlinecrimsonking91
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Re: What is crocodile? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: aperson444]
    #18931392 - 10/04/13 02:14 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Does anyone know if you can snort it? Probably wouldn't be fatal then, I still wouldn't try it unless it was lab pure like other people on this thread said, is there an easy way of correctly making it pure? I guess not because then the russians would just make desomorphine or whatever its called instead of crocodilly

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Offlinedark3st
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Re: What is crocodile? The flesh-rotting drug comes to the U.S. [Re: crimsonking91]
    #18931495 - 10/04/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Lol I.can see Michael Jacksons walking around again


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