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OfflineUzziel
O_o


Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 11,689
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: NetDiver]
    #18898242 - 09/27/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
I think it was plato who said that the only reason to be "good" as a person is for your own benefit



Plato never said anything like that. :nonono:

You're thinking of Ayn Rand.




I think that is more along the lines of Nietzsche... or you could even say nihilists or hedonists.... but Plato? Someone doesn't know anything about philosophy :lol:


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: NetDiver] * 1
    #18898256 - 09/27/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:ugh:

Fuck all of the Rands, be it Ayn or Paul.
Atlas Shrugged made great, and immense, kindling though.

but We the Living was alright.


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Offlinexoanon
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: something super extreme]
    #18898483 - 09/27/13 12:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

At school : wins
At play: wins
At work: probably wins
Sees the bigger picture: loses
At life: loses.


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: something super extreme]
    #18898529 - 09/27/13 12:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
I think it was plato who said that the only reason to be "good" as a person is for your own benefit



Plato never said anything like that. :nonono:

You're thinking of Ayn Rand.





Actually yes he did, Plato's Republic book either 2 or 4. Although you're technically right that it was Glaucon and Adamantius talking about it; Plato just recorded the dialogues or recreated them or just used them as characters.

To paraphrase:

Quote:

You stand to gain the most benefit if you appear to be good but still allow yourself to do bad things. You can have more advantage if people think you're good and you can steal than someone who is good and is regarded as good, as you will have their same advantages but the additional advantages of not having to play by the rules





A related and axiomatic quote that I can recite VERBATIM and that has or had been in my sig since the day I registered is by Adimantius (or some A name) and goes like so:

Quote:

Since then, as philosophers prove, appearance TYRANNIZES truth and is lord of happiness, so then it is to appearance I shall devote myself.





As in, you're better off being the most rotten man alive and having people see you as good than being the most saintly soul around but being seen as corrupt and evil.




Uzz, I gave an answer that wasn't a copout. You've made it clear you didn't read it because you didn't think you'd agree with it :dumbass:. People like you are the reason my fellow Philosophy majors and others who can actually think make such high salaries later on.




Quote:

sVs said:
:ugh:

Fuck all of the Rands, be it Ayn or Paul.
Atlas Shrugged made great, and immense, kindling though.

but We the Living was alright.





Lol that's better than the time me and some friends at College roasted marshmallows over a burning copy of Twilight. :nodofapproval:


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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OfflineUzziel
O_o


Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 11,689
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: st1llnox]
    #18898559 - 09/27/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

No, I explained Karma is a bunch of yip yaps that has no empirical evidence behind it, therefore anything you stand to say about Karma is therefore invalid.

:ooo:


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: Uzziel]
    #18898570 - 09/27/13 12:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Uzziel said:
No, I explained Karma is a bunch of yip yaps that has no empirical evidence behind it, therefore anything you stand to say about Karma is therefore invalid.

:ooo:




No empirical evidence? "Like begets like" is pretty much the foundation of any and all levels of biology that can involve complex behavior interactions or psychology.

Do good, get good. I'm not especially nice to douchebags, but I'm very kind to everyone and extra kind to people who are nice and who've been there for me, and I make sure to be there for them when they need extra assistance.

You'd have seen I don't even necessarily believe in Karma per se, but why would you read a post when you could simply discuss it without reading it :lol:

U kray kray u needs a :highfive:


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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OfflineUzziel
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Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 11,689
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: st1llnox]
    #18898586 - 09/27/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, there is no empirical evidence. If you are gonna keep spouting that I should "BELIEVE" (LOL) Prove it.

Terribly BAD thing happens to the best of people and Terribly GOOD things happen to the worst shit heads in the world.


Quote:

is pretty much the foundation of any and all levels of biology that can involve complex behavior interactions or psychology.




wat? :facepalm:


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: Uzziel]
    #18898600 - 09/27/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Uzziel said:
Yes, there is no empirical evidence. If you are gonna keep spouting that I should "BELIEVE" (LOL) Prove it.

Terribly BAD thing happens to the best of people and Terribly GOOD things happen to the worst shit heads in the world.


Quote:

is pretty much the foundation of any and all levels of biology that can involve complex behavior interactions or psychology.




wat? :facepalm:





Any time psychology is involved, there's at least a conscious tendency to act favorably to those who you like and unfavorably to those you don't. You're more likely to like people who have been nice and giving with you and are more likely to dislike people who are cruel to or exclusive of you.

It's that fucking simple.


Also, I can all but guarantee you you'll see the phrase "like begets like" or something to that effect within the first 50 pages of any AP or above level introductory Bio textbook.

Then again, it turns out reading things isn't necessary to contribute to the conversation and that any deficits in your own understanding of what the other person is saying is actually them being baseless. :sadyes:


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: Uzziel]
    #18898604 - 09/27/13 12:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Uzziel said:
Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
I think it was plato who said that the only reason to be "good" as a person is for your own benefit



Plato never said anything like that. :nonono:

You're thinking of Ayn Rand.




I think that is more along the lines of Nietzsche... or you could even say nihilists or hedonists.... but Plato? Someone doesn't know anything about philosophy :lol:



Quote:

Uzziel said:
Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
I think it was plato who said that the only reason to be "good" as a person is for your own benefit



Plato never said anything like that. :nonono:

You're thinking of Ayn Rand.




I think that is more along the lines of Nietzsche... or you could even say nihilists or hedonists.... but Plato? Someone doesn't know anything about philosophy :lol:




Lol I never said I knew a lot about philosphy. I took a 3 months course where we discussed the ideas of good and bad along with karma. I just thought I would throw in a tid bit and opinion.

But if I remember the passage correctly, plato and another person (lets call them person B) are arguing. PErson B states that being evil/bad is good and benefits the person as long as they don't get caught. He or she mentions the Ring of Gyges in a scenario. And plato retorts that being good supports your own mental health

I believe it is in book two of the republic. If I mixed it up then I apologize

But its annoying how people get into this "greater than thou" mode. Its an arguement over the internet for fucks sake. If I made a mixup with a philosopher no need to pick at it

The arguement remains the same regardless of who said it or if it is said at all. The logic ofmy post along with the Key and peele video should explain my arguement thouroughly


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: st1llnox]
    #18898616 - 09/27/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I was just poking fun at you man about the philosophy thing. I don't think anyone cares if you got what Plato said correctly. :lol:







Quote:

st1llnox said:
Quote:

Uzziel said:
Yes, there is no empirical evidence. If you are gonna keep spouting that I should "BELIEVE" (LOL) Prove it.

Terribly BAD thing happens to the best of people and Terribly GOOD things happen to the worst shit heads in the world.


Quote:

is pretty much the foundation of any and all levels of biology that can involve complex behavior interactions or psychology.




wat? :facepalm:




You're more likely to like people who have been nice and giving with you and are more likely to dislike people who are cruel to or exclusive of you.

It's that fucking simple.





That is the golden rule... not karma, n00b :facepalm:


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: topdog82]
    #18898774 - 09/27/13 01:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:

Quote:

Uzziel said:
Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
I think it was plato who said that the only reason to be "good" as a person is for your own benefit



Plato never said anything like that. :nonono:

You're thinking of Ayn Rand.




I think that is more along the lines of Nietzsche... or you could even say nihilists or hedonists.... but Plato? Someone doesn't know anything about philosophy :lol:




Lol I never said I knew a lot about philosphy. I took a 3 months course where we discussed the ideas of good and bad along with karma. I just thought I would throw in a tid bit and opinion.

But if I remember the passage correctly, plato and another person (lets call them person B) are arguing. PErson B states that being evil/bad is good and benefits the person as long as they don't get caught. He or she mentions the Ring of Gyges in a scenario. And plato retorts that being good supports your own mental health

I believe it is in book two of the republic. If I mixed it up then I apologize

But its annoying how people get into this "greater than thou" mode. Its an arguement over the internet for fucks sake. If I made a mixup with a philosopher no need to pick at it

The arguement remains the same regardless of who said it or if it is said at all. The logic ofmy post along with the Key and peele video should explain my arguement thouroughly





Read my reply dude and don't worry: you were right. Source? Philo degree with a 4.0 in major so far and emphasis on Greece. Put bluntly: Uzz was literally and flat out completely wrong that Plato never said anything like that. :shrug:




Uzz, it's just what you like to call it. It's the same thing and same idea, except that Karma implies some universal mechanism (which if your :dumbass: had read my reply, you'd see I don't agree with that but think that functionally, Karma's implication's happen but not because Karma is real per se as it's espoused).


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Registered: 11/12/11
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: st1llnox] * 1
    #18898822 - 09/27/13 01:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Bully is just a label. Everything in this situation is much more complex than a label. Invalid argument IMO


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #18898833 - 09/27/13 01:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jesus_Animal_The said:
Bully is just a label. Everything in this situation is much more complex than a label. Invalid argument IMO





It's a simplification of a tendency. The question could more coherently, so as to be open to people like you (and usually me :wink:) who see more of the nuances in life, be phrased as "Does a tendency towards bullying affect long-term outcomes that can be evaluated almost-objectively, and does it tend to bring about a good or bad outcome or is there little to no correlation?".

This wouldn't fit in the title though and half of people here are too stoned to parse a sentence like that. My 2c.


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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OfflineUzziel
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Registered: 12/30/10
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: st1llnox]
    #18899013 - 09/27/13 02:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

st1llnox said:
Read my reply dude and don't worry: you were right. Source? Philo degree with a 4.0 in major so far and emphasis on Greece. Put bluntly: Uzz was literally and flat out completely wrong that Plato never said anything like that. :shrug:




Uzz, it's just what you like to call it. It's the same thing and same idea, except that Karma implies some universal mechanism (which if your :dumbass: had read my reply, you'd see I don't agree with that but think that functionally, Karma's implication's happen but not because Karma is real per se as it's espoused).




You're wrong on 2 accounts:

1. Socrates/Plato never said that at all. Plato said to do good because it is good in and of itself and that we do good BECAUSE we all seek the form "The Good".

Ohhhh you made a 4.0 in philo huh? How is that degree workin out for ya? Oh yeah.. OOPS.

2. Karma is not the golden rule. I bolded the section where you just make no sense at all. "So Karma happens but its not because Karma is real"

What? Make up your mind. Either Karma is real or its just a random set of events because of peoples random actions on their random choice of whatever they decide to do.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: Uzziel]
    #18899042 - 09/27/13 02:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

bullying is relative



the kid who i perceived to be my bully is now a hard-labor worker for a temp agency and drinks a case of beer every day. i'm in grad school and I have a drug habit of a different kind. sometimes i think the only reason I've been successful where he failed was that my parents didn't weren't poor ignorant fools who beat my ass on a daily basis like his. when i'm caught up in my ego, i like to attribute all my successes to my own hard work and intelligence. but that is a bunch of BS.

Quote:

Bully is just a label. Everything in this situation is much more complex than a label. Invalid argument IMO



.

I had a kid I perceived to be my bully, and there is someone else I know for a fact perceived me to be their bully. but I was just doing what kids do, and so was he, trying to find my/his place in the world.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: morrowasted]
    #18899071 - 09/27/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I actually ended up living right next door to my former bully recently and he is a mess. I feel really bad for him. He is going to die alone and single of a drinking problem very young, I foresee. and he doesn't even seem to enjoy drinking anymore. We kind of ended up becoming friends while I lived there. It was interesting, when we met he was like HOLY SHIT XXX WHATS UP??? and I didn't recognize him at all because of how much weight he had gained. only after talking about what used to happen did I remember who he was. but there was no question in my mind about being mad at this guy. There is no way I could hold a grudge against a childhood bully. When I lived there he would come over everyday and go on long rants about how I needed to quit doing dissociatives and opioids and I would just sit there and enjoy my drugs and let him rant as a way of distracting himself from his own drinking problem. Kind of weird how it happened but as much as we apparently hated each other when we were young, there was now more of a mutual pity/concern


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: st1llnox]
    #18899149 - 09/27/13 03:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

st1llnox said:
Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
I think it was plato who said that the only reason to be "good" as a person is for your own benefit



Plato never said anything like that. :nonono:

You're thinking of Ayn Rand.





Actually yes he did, Plato's Republic book either 2 or 4. Although you're technically right that it was Glaucon and Adamantius talking about it; Plato just recorded the dialogues or recreated them or just used them as characters.

To paraphrase:

Quote:

You stand to gain the most benefit if you appear to be good but still allow yourself to do bad things. You can have more advantage if people think you're good and you can steal than someone who is good and is regarded as good, as you will have their same advantages but the additional advantages of not having to play by the rules





A related and axiomatic quote that I can recite VERBATIM and that has or had been in my sig since the day I registered is by Adimantius (or some A name) and goes like so:

Quote:

Since then, as philosophers prove, appearance TYRANNIZES truth and is lord of happiness, so then it is to appearance I shall devote myself.





As in, you're better off being the most rotten man alive and having people see you as good than being the most saintly soul around but being seen as corrupt and evil.




Uzz, I gave an answer that wasn't a copout. You've made it clear you didn't read it because you didn't think you'd agree with it :dumbass:. People like you are the reason my fellow Philosophy majors and others who can actually think make such high salaries later on.




Quote:

sVs said:
:ugh:

Fuck all of the Rands, be it Ayn or Paul.
Atlas Shrugged made great, and immense, kindling though.

but We the Living was alright.





Lol that's better than the time me and some friends at College roasted marshmallows over a burning copy of Twilight. :nodofapproval:





Fuck yes lol

I was sitting here racking my brain trying to find this exact passage in the republic. It was damn interesting. I can't thank you enough. It was driving me crazy to try and find that specific passage


Also, how is salary with a philsophy major? What do you work as currently? If you don't mind me asking. I was considering doing philosophy as a major but now it is a minor. I feel that I wouldn't be able to get a job in this kind of market to pay off my college debt


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: st1llnox]
    #18899170 - 09/27/13 03:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

st1llnox said:
Quote:

Jesus_Animal_The said:
Bully is just a label. Everything in this situation is much more complex than a label. Invalid argument IMO





It's a simplification of a tendency. The question could more coherently, so as to be open to people like you (and usually me :wink:) who see more of the nuances in life, be phrased as "Does a tendency towards bullying affect long-term outcomes that can be evaluated almost-objectively, and does it tend to bring about a good or bad outcome or is there little to no correlation?".

This wouldn't fit in the title though and half of people here are too stoned to parse a sentence like that. My 2c.



That indeed should be the title

And to answer that question, I think that people who have bullying tendencies would get a worse life outcome. it been two years since graduating high school. Most of the bullies/assholes have already started to plummet. I used to see them as assholes and hated em. But by now...I truly sympathize with em. Poor alcoholic/drug abused souls


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: topdog82]
    #18899473 - 09/27/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Also, how is salary with a philsophy major? What do you work as currently? If you don't mind me asking. I was considering doing philosophy as a major but now it is a minor. I feel that I wouldn't be able to get a job in this kind of market to pay off my college debt




I'm also majoring in computer science and was making nearly $20/hour at age 19. Took a voluntary paycut in order to work at a lab that ended up securing me a publication, but I wasn't renewed as they couldn't really depend on me--not because I wasn't reliable by default (I did computer science internships summerly starting at age 17 and was always rehired; one offered to pay for my college if I stayed with them but I didn't want to go to the colleges in my home town), but because I'd had to miss a couple semesters here and there due to health/psychological consideration and they can't get funding if they don't know that they'll be able to have stuff out in a certain time-frame.

After losing my lab position, I didn't bother for a little while, then got a job at McDonalds and I'm finally getting back to where I was: I start a research position with a highly-regarded psychiatrist early this October. We will actually be working on Philosophy stuff together at first (he's very much a polymath) so after years of lucrative computer science work, I'm now technically going to be a professional philosopher.



For you and the lobotomuzzed chronic responder on this thread, you might find this interesting. It's from http://philosophy.unc.edu/undergraduate-program/why-major-in-philosophy .

Quote:

How Much Money Do Philosophy Majors Make?

A lot of students are deterred from majoring in philosophy by the widespread belief that a degree in philosophy translates into low earning potential.  This turns out not to be true.  Each year, www.payscale.com issues a report on the median starting salaries and mid-career salaries of people with only bachelor's degrees, sorted by major.  Not surprisingly, philosophy isn't at the very top of the list, but it is a lot higher than you might think:

According to the 2011 numbers, the median starting salary for philosophy BAs is $39,800 ad the median mid-career salary is $75.600.  This puts it at #2 among the humanities majors (behind American studies), only slightly behind accounting majors, and ahead of several science majors (including biology and psychology) and professional majors (including business, advertising, public administration and hotel management).

For the full report, click here:  http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/degrees.asp

Needless to say, nobody should major in philosophy for the money.  But this evidence suggests that avoiding majoring in philosophy for the sake of making money might not be such a great idea either.




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Re: In real life, does the bully tend to win or lose? [Re: st1llnox]
    #18899505 - 09/27/13 04:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)



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