Home | Community | Message Board

MagicBag Grow Bags
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   Kraken Kratom Buy Kratom Powder & Leaf   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Bulk Substrate

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte Flag
Last seen: 24 days, 20 hours
Re: so thinking for myself for once [Re: Deviate]
    #18905901 - 09/29/13 05:53 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm a mystic of first order. I believe in Mysticism proper, as a palliative for all that ills us. I've had plenty of mystical experiences without drugs so don't get your panties in a bunch. You may be mystical first and a Jesuser second without knowing it.  Jesus is not the way though. Jesus is a way.

Because any process of coming to know a Creator isn't available to the intellect at once it must be an ongoing relationship. I have mine with the Goddess and have for all my life. I am so fortunate to have had her find me when I was a young punkrocker in Hollywood.

I can tell Deviate that you're a young man.  Maybe with time you'll find out that you cannot compel the mystical upon another, not with phrases or bell, not with priest, or cross, or Book, nor with myrrh, olibanum or candle. Not by trying as hard as you might will you get that horse to drink.

Ultimately you should check your own self before you go gallivanting off like a windmill boinker. Don't kiss and tell all the time in your relationship with the Goddess (The Sophia) (who you patriarchal fundamentalists call 'God' thinking that somehow earns you spiritual kudos - leniencies; thinking that a God can be a Creator, haha, everybody knows men can give birth, hahaha) Christians all have this idea that their deservability increases with amount of Hail Marys.

Count yourself blessed for your experiences, sorry that they are not shared, find people who appreciate them where there is no division for you. The discussion of spiritual experiences with an frictionate public introduces anger into the experience of the mind's appreciation on a subtle level and isn't good.

You say you're not on drugs D, I bet anything you're on some drug or another but you're not telling us.


--------------------
...or something







Edited by eve69 (09/29/13 06:01 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: so thinking for myself for once [Re: eve69]
    #18905934 - 09/29/13 06:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:


(I admit to being on Kratom these days)  :elmo:

I've had "mystical" experiences on drugs aplenty in 40+ years of gobbling them.  I just logically never concluded they were part of any main stream belief system. Rather instead my own special experience of the "divine".


Edited by Icelander (09/29/13 06:29 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: so thinking for myself for once [Re: eve69]
    #18910119 - 09/30/13 06:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
I'm a mystic of first order. I believe in Mysticism proper, as a palliative for all that ills us. I've had plenty of mystical experiences without drugs so don't get your panties in a bunch. You may be mystical first and a Jesuser second without knowing it.  Jesus is not the way though. Jesus is a way.




Why would I get my panties in a bunch? Here are my thoughts on Jesus being a way vs the way. The Bible says that anyone in any nation who is upright and fears God is acceptable to him. It does not say that those people must worship or even know about Jesus. I think a lot of Christians who are or have been intolerant of other religions ignore this verse. another confusing aspect is the fact that for Christians, God, Jesus and the life force are all synonymous. From that point of view, Jesus is the only way, because there is ultimately only one way. Christians call that way "Jesus". Buddhists might call it the 8 fold path. Confusion exists because some people can't recognize the same product under a different brand name.

Quote:


Because any process of coming to know a Creator isn't available to the intellect at once it must be an ongoing relationship. I have mine with the Goddess and have for all my life. I am so fortunate to have had her find me when I was a young punkrocker in Hollywood.

I can tell Deviate that you're a young man.  Maybe with time you'll find out that you cannot compel the mystical upon another, not with phrases or bell, not with priest, or cross, or Book, nor with myrrh, olibanum or candle. Not by trying as hard as you might will you get that horse to drink.




I already found that out years ago. I used to believe in logic and reasoning and rational debate as a means of reaching truth. After my mystical experiences and new understanding of religion and spirituality, I thought that I would be able to explain mystical experiences to atheists in a way that would make them understand that religious beliefs were not necessarily fundamentally different from their own beliefs. For example, atheism is not a belief system, it is a lack of belief in God. Calling it a belief system would be like you asking me what my religion was and me answering with Not Buddhist. Ok, so I am not a Buddhist. But that doesnt tell you what I am. Most atheists are actually just materialists. They have a set of beliefs which when closely examined, come to rest on a bunch of assumptions about the world which are no more proven than the assumptions made by religious people. If you point this out to them, they will argue that their assumptions make more sense than those of religious people. However, they cannot prove this. So what it comes down to, is that atheists are saying that everyone should look at the world how they do because they are the smartest people and anyway who operates under a different set of assumptions must be wrong because they are different and therefore stupid.

I enjoy conversing with icelander because he is not like that. He may not be a believer, but is not arrogant and disrespectful. He is just honest about the fact that he has never found God/the divine and as a result, sees no reason to believe. What more can you from someone than honesty?

Quote:


Ultimately you should check your own self before you go gallivanting off like a windmill boinker. Don't kiss and tell all the time in your relationship with the Goddess (The Sophia) (who you patriarchal fundamentalists call 'God' thinking that somehow earns you spiritual kudos - leniencies; thinking that a God can be a Creator, haha, everybody knows men can give birth, hahaha) Christians all have this idea that their deservability increases with amount of Hail Marys.




Really don't understand what you're trying to say here. The Goddess, is the earth mother, the physical world that gave birth to us and everything else in creation, creation itself really, is the Mother. The Father is the pure spirit, the unseen power that is the other half of the single reality which encompasses both creation and nothingness.

Christians do not all believe their deservebility increases the amount of hail mary's. In fact, not only does a large section of the Christian community regard devotion to Mary as heretical, they even go as far as to deny that a man can gain merit by anything he does at all. As a catholic christian, I do believe in the power of the hail mary prayer but this is by no means universal among Christians.

Quote:


Count yourself blessed for your experiences, sorry that they are not shared, find people who appreciate them where there is no division for you. The discussion of spiritual experiences with an frictionate public introduces anger into the experience of the mind's appreciation on a subtle level and isn't good.




yes you are right in what you say. there is an aspect to speaking about spiritual experiences that is akin to kissing and telling and I feel as though I often cross into that territory. I get carried away easily on topics which I am passionate about. On the other hand, the Bible tells us to proclaim the glory of the Lord and not to keep our wisdom to ourselves.

You say you're not on drugs D, I bet anything you're on some drug or another but you're not telling us.




Are you referring to me with that last line? If so, I don't recall saying I wasn't on drugs. I admitted to being stoned in a thread I made just a couple of days ago. I don't smoke nearly as much weed as I used to, but I have not given up drugs entirely yet.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: so thinking for myself for once [Re: Icelander]
    #18910139 - 09/30/13 06:48 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
:thumbup:


(I admit to being on Kratom these days)  :elmo:

I've had "mystical" experiences on drugs aplenty in 40+ years of gobbling them.  I just logically never concluded they were part of any main stream belief system. Rather instead my own special experience of the "divine".




I thought that too in my early days as a drug user. But it wasn't long before I became to grow in understanding and then see that same understanding reflected in sacred texts from around the world. I converted to Hinduism when I was 20, before finding Jesus later that year and becoming a Christian. It wasn't that finding Jesus made me decide Hinduism was wrong, rather I simply desired to study the religion that I had been in greatest opposition to as an atheist. I was so delighted by the fact that the beliefs and ideas which I had so vehemently denied and debated against as an atheist, might actually have some truth to them, that I quickly became an esoteric Christian and got involved in the new age movement, which attempted to synthesize all religions. it wasn't until years later and some powerful LSD trips, that I found myself being drawn to the Catholic Church.

All the wisdom I found on psychedelics, exists somewhere or other in the Bible as far as I am concerned. If you don't like the whole Jesus died for your sins aspect, read the old testament, read the wisdom literature like proverbs. One of my favorite books in the Bible is actually Sirach, which you may not be familiar with if you were a protestant. In my opinion, Sirach alone contains all the wisdom one needs to enter into life in one book.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: so thinking for myself for once [Re: Deviate]
    #18910149 - 09/30/13 06:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I enjoy conversing with icelander because he is not like that. He may not be a believer, but is not arrogant and disrespectful. He is just honest about the fact that he has never found God/the divine and as a result, sees no reason to believe. What more can you from someone than honesty?


Thanks, man I wish I had found it. That was my fervent search for much of my life due to some profound unhappiness.  Instead I found Ernest Becker and Death Anxiety. :whoa:  Maybe I'll have better luck next time. :lol:  My plan is to work with whatever I believe to be the truth. Pleasant, Unpleasant, Neutral, I'm going to run with it. :shrug: But I'm unable to lie to myself on this issue and that is very apparent to me.  This is where the buck stops. :nicesmile:

And btw many here don't see me as sincere and respectful.  The reason being imo is that when I post to you I feel you are being as honest and open as you can be and not just out to win a debate or your point. You can acknowledge that some things don't fit into your world view as you say.  Admitting it's only your world view is quite honorable imo and a rare thing among true believers.  I have no problem being respectful to  your pov.

The fact that you push your beliefs here is no different, better or worse than me pushing what I believe in. It's what goes on with all of us most of the time.  You do it in a very respectful way most of the time and you're far from a fundy imo.  That being said it's very apparent we are not in agreement. :wink:


Edited by Icelander (09/30/13 07:04 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: so thinking for myself for once [Re: Icelander]
    #18910185 - 09/30/13 07:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks. I try because that is the one thing I wish humanity would learn, how to be respectful toward itself. Our society especially has a big problem with that.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineusulpsychonaut
Male

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2,814
Loc: Northland, New Zealand. Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: so thinking for myself for once [Re: Deviate]
    #18911273 - 09/30/13 01:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Yes certainly, but mystical experiences prove there is more to religion than that. I don't deny that there are many psychological reasons that make spiritual and religious beliefs appealing to people and contribute to the popularity of religion. But I think it is a mistake to think that's all there is to religion, just a nice story that amounts to nothing more than wishful thinking.

As you know I used to be an atheist but I was always a truth seeker. Back in my atheist days, I despised the idea of just believing in something because it sounded nice and my biggest complaint against Christianity was that the gospel of Jesus Christ seemed too good to be true.

A loving father who provides and cares for us? Angels? Heaven? Eternal life? True happiness? Get real. I mean, all I experienced was this miserable, painful world which appeared to follow the cold, impersonal laws of nature. There was no solid evidence of anything more than this as far as I was concerned and to believe that not only was there something more than this, but that it consisted of the true fulfillment of our heart's deepest yearnings, seemed like complete, utter wishful thinking to me. I mean it flew in the face of logic and reasoning.

So what happened? Did I suddenly on a whim decide that logic and reasoning should be abandoned in favor of wishful thinking? No. I became a teenager curious about what effects drugs might have on my consciousness, consciousness itself being the big mystery which I could not explain as an atheist. The first drug I took was a vicodin and it did not impress me a great deal either spiritually or recreationally. I also tried alcohol and wasn't too enthralled with that either, so I began to think maybe drugs weren't for me and became less interested in them for a while. But eventually, at age 18,  I smoked the marijuana plant and a couple years later ate the magic mushroom. These substances took me to realms of experience that really were every bit as glorious and perfect as the places mentioned in various religious texts. It was then I learned that religion was not based on wishful thinking, but actual human contact with the divine. What I previously had thought was impossible, was not only possible but so simple that a mere bud or mushroom could induce it.

Of course the difficulty is making it last. But if such bliss is possible for a night, longer even if you've ever experienced an afterglow, then how you can legitimately say it is not possible for longer than that, or even all the time?




In the face of a very laid back life, I have this constant mystical morbidity pulling me down. The universe always seems to take care of everything despite my errors, yet I live out this constant mystical hatred of everything and myself. Those moments of bliss seem pathetic to me. A temporary self awareness that suffers for no reason. Haunted by memories. Surrounded by beautiful people yet being completely alone and they always seem to be a million miles away. Silences that always have to be fucking awkward. The bible really deepened my confusion and disappointment about there being no way out of the filth and rot. Decay is mystical. Bliss is superficial bullshit la la.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: so thinking for myself for once [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #18911931 - 09/30/13 04:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Sounds bad.:sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte Flag
Last seen: 24 days, 20 hours
Re: so thinking for myself for once [Re: Icelander]
    #18911991 - 09/30/13 04:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

bliss done right isn't superficial
suprafacial perhaps


--------------------
...or something







Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: so thinking for myself for once [Re: eve69]
    #18912597 - 09/30/13 06:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I really dug my bliss state.  It sure didn't feel superficial.  But what the fuck do I know?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSpacerific
- - - >
Male

Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 4,923
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: so thinking for myself for once [Re: Icelander]
    #18913987 - 10/01/13 12:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

IMO Abrahamic religions (and a few other types) are pretty much organized placebo, and a social activity. They do work, placebo does have effects, and it's all probably best used in moderation. That is, have fun with it just don't take the content too seriously. It's all myths and stories.

Have fun on Christmas, opening presents and setting up trees, just don't start setting up telescopes and tracking radars to prove that reindeer sleds are actually flying through the sky, that's missing the point entirely. Also the art and architecture are somewhat nice. I myself prefer non-Christian religions, but to each their own.

Here, a nice TED Talk on this:



Finally, learn to spell and to use paragraphs OP, otherwise it makes your posts seem somewhat ignorant.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineusulpsychonaut
Male

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2,814
Loc: Northland, New Zealand. Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: so thinking for myself for once [Re: Spacerific]
    #18914362 - 10/01/13 02:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup:

Quote:

Icelander said:
I really dug my bliss state.  It sure didn't feel superficial.  But what the fuck do I know?




I dug my bliss states, sometimes. Living in the moment, working with what is here and now, not bliss but festering, swelling mold consuming damp dust particles. Surely that which goes up must come down.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte Flag
Last seen: 24 days, 20 hours
Re: so thinking for myself for once [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #18914629 - 10/01/13 05:01 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

the bliss state I lived pretty great for a number of years and I feel it was instrumental in giving me faith in the Goddess

in fact it was instrumental in allowing me to open up completely and just live - i learned a lot about the purpose of life and my purpose from the bliss - like I am a medium for celebration - joy is my purpose in life - and spreading joy (it always make me feel sexy to say that) - fact is I had always been in food service and I decided to go into music - celebration, through bliss and joy (s,d,rnr).

Some people can turn happiness into their profession. I feel pretty lucky that I was raised (raised myself through a Goddess cult) to appreciate the Creation and the body of the Creatrix Saraswati.  How lucky one can be to take the basic space of phenomena as the body of the Beloved. If karma is as karma does then let us celebrate!!!


--------------------
...or something







Edited by eve69 (10/01/13 05:08 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: so thinking for myself for once [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #18915178 - 10/01/13 09:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

usulpsychonaut said:
:thumbup:

Quote:

Icelander said:
I really dug my bliss state.  It sure didn't feel superficial.  But what the fuck do I know?




I dug my bliss states, sometimes. Living in the moment, working with what is here and now, not bliss but festering, swelling mold consuming damp dust particles. Surely that which goes up must come down.





Well I did come down and hard eventually.  Duality and all that shit. :sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   Kraken Kratom Buy Kratom Powder & Leaf   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Bulk Substrate


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* The Snakes are inside me...
( 1 2 3 all )
Adamist 13,236 44 02/05/21 10:58 PM
by makalis
* What religion are you?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
undecided 23,191 122 12/25/22 07:38 PM
by LogicaL Chaos
* Zero Point Alchemy
( 1 2 all )
ShroomismM 5,766 20 01/12/20 02:37 AM
by Loaded Shaman
* Alien/Human Relations v2.0
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Anonymous 23,664 65 12/23/22 02:19 AM
by doolhoofd
* On your path to enlightenment...
( 1 2 all )
ShroomismM 12,341 34 10/15/22 10:25 PM
by Buster_Brown
* The 4th Density
( 1 2 3 all )
ShroomismM 16,306 49 10/19/08 12:07 PM
by ariark
* alien agenda
( 1 2 all )
CleverName 11,273 21 04/13/23 08:50 PM
by unlearn88
* Alien offers humankind the secrets of the Universe ShroomismM 6,565 14 11/18/13 01:19 AM
by Yesod

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Shroomism, Rose, Kickle, yogabunny, DividedQuantum
1,663 topic views. 0 members, 4 guests and 0 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.03 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 14 queries.