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OfflineUltra-Imperialist
Strength and Honor
Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 30
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives
    #18895673 - 09/26/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Their top leader has been executed, and the general leadership of Al Qaeda is being hunted down like dogs. They have been slain, with Violence AND Honor.

We did not use suicide bombers, or other weapons which invite huge amounts of collateral, but drones, which according to all relevant statistics have less collateral then any other weapon in military history. This strikes the target while reducing the impact on innocents. It is thus the very embodiment of honorable, technologically intense warfare. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/02/drones_war_and_civilian_casualties_how_unmanned_aircraft_reduce_collateral.html

Just five years ago we seemed already on the brink of ruin. We faced fanatical religious enemies from without and ideological fanatics of a more secular bent from within. Both seemed hellbent on negating our Superpower status and reducing our Empire to nothing.

Now the religious fanatics cover in fear of our technological might, their suicide bombings, hostage taking, terrorist tactics aimed primarily at hurting their own civilians as recruiting tools defeated soundly.

The other side, composed primarily of Republicans are likewise facing increasing ruin, the traitors in their midst, either intentional or de facto exposed.

The Republicans and their ilk thought themselves wise and bold to compare themselves to Ancient Spartans.

But they forgot one thing- Sparta eventually fell to Rome.

Many here and elsewhere, mostly among the right, argue that we are a Constitutional Republic. This is as wrong as wrong can be- we are a Democratic Empire.

We have hundreds of military bases in tens of dozens of countries around the world, we control the largest and most powerful navy in the world, our reach and our interests are entwined with every other country around the world. And by such means the United States keeps the Peace.

No World War has broken out since the United States became a Super-Power, does anyone here really believe this is because World Leaders and Dictators became more peaceful overnight or do you think it more likely they fear our military and technological influence?

Pax Americana is the only thing keeping World War 3 at bay, and if we were to surrender our position tomorrow, the other Great Powers would start making land grabs and coming to blows in less then a decade's time. That is, after they decided to unite and pummel us.

Our entire quality of life depends on our Imperial aspiration, which now, with those purposely trying to weaken us en route either for their Market Fundamentalist, Leftist Idealist, Communist Revolutionary, Backwards Christian Fundamentalist or Fashioned Little House on the Prairie view of the world.

According to the UN, Brookings Institute, Forbes, world starvation and poverty rates are in rapid decline. Access to clean drinking water is becoming a reality for millions. This is all because the Right-Wing idiots are no longer holding us back, and we are free to unleash our economic and technological might, in a peaceful environment.

http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2013/04/17/remarkable-declines-in-global-poverty-but-major-challenges-remain

A lot of fools, on this matter, who know nothing of strategy and consider only the small details and never the big picture argue for reduced taxes, that we should not raise taxes, that we should not have social programs, that we should not have legalized recreational drugs.

Drugs and Social Programs help keep the peace at home, and we need peace at home to continue to export the benefits of a Super-Power status Democratic Empire abroad.

We need taxes to maintain our infrastructure, our navy, our military, our CDC, spy agencies, First Responders, etc.

We need Regulations to ensure fair competition. We NEED to keep competition fair because it ensures social mobility and progress. Unfair competition leads to cheating behavior, like a sports game where there are no rules. Fair competition ensures that companies have to compete by improving their products and services instead of attacking each other or defrauding the consumer. We want competition because it makes us more innovative and efficient, not because it screws the consumer over and sabotages the economy. We need social mobility, which comes from regulations and social programs to make sure the right people get to the top.

To call for weaker taxes, is a direct call to abandon our Imperial Projects, and such a call is just short of treason, not only for America, but Humanity as a whole.

Just to be clear- an Empire is not necessarily the stereotypical thing most people imagine it to be. An Empire strives to be good, because that benefits and legitimizes itself. Empires do not do diabolical things just to be evil, they try by and large to do the right thing.

Now some may ask, Who is the new Caesar of this Empire? The answer is: The United States as a whole.

Our Caesar is not a person, it is a series of ideas: Freedom, Honor, Peace, Strength, Courage, Reason, and Intelligence.

We rule not by brute force, nor numbers, nor treachery- we rule by strategy, by technology, by our innovative spirit and our sense of honorable competition.

I cannot emphasize too much the importance of this last, because without it we would see a world of mutually destructive economic competition based on sabotage and corporate espionage tactics and fraud.

By such means, we live in a Super-Utopia. And I say Super-Utopia purposely because we live by leaps and bounds much better then the people in Thomas Moore's Utopia, where things like electricity and indoor plumbing and lamps would have been fantastic, yet alone Internet, Smart Phones, MMO/MOBA games, I-PODS and MP3s. We can afford to eat at restaurants every day. We live better then Kings and Queens in the Renaissance Era.

We also have a Government, compared to that of those in history, and those around the world, is relatively not corrupt at all. We, as citizens, have huge amounts of influence over this government with free speech, and votes- speech that can travel all over the Net if we so wish.

We have the best movies. The largest variety of gourmet foods available. An economy so stable and flexible that we can buy whatever the heck we want, on demand and have it delivered to our house from across the world in a week! We never have to worry about invasions, raiders, conquerors or warlords.

It is truly a Super-Utopian existence for us, and it is made possible because our Democratic Empire exists.

Many have compared us to Rome at its fall, but I say we are more like Rome during its transition from Republic to Empire.

Quote:

The victor in one of these civil wars, Octavian (later known as Augustus), reformed the Republic as a Principate, with himself as Rome's "first citizen" (princeps). The Senate continued to sit and debate. Annual magistrates were elected as before, but final decisions on matters of policy, warfare, diplomacy and appointments were privileged to Augustus through his wielding of a number of separate powers simultaneously. One of his many titles was imperator from which the title "emperor" is derived, and he is customarily called the first Roman Emperor.

The Republic was never restored, but neither was it ever formally abolished (the term res publica continued to be used to refer to the state apparatus), so the exact date of the transition to the Roman Empire is a matter of interpretation. Historians have variously proposed the appointment of Julius Caesar as perpetual dictator in 44 BC, the defeat of Mark Antony at the Battle of Actium in 31 BC, and the Roman Senate's grant of extraordinary powers to Octavian under the first settlement and his adopting the title Augustus in 27 BC, as the defining event ending the Republic.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Republic

So with this I say Seyla! I hope it remains such until all civilization shall fall.

For blood is thicker then water, but not as Thick as Duty. Our Triumph is worth noting, and the Star are damned right.


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"I have just called President Obama to congratulate him on his victory. His supporters and his campaign also deserve congratulations." - Mitt Romney, on the eve of his and his follower's Epic Defeat

Thanks Mitt. :cool:


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OfflineOk amoismis
metabolizer
Male


Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 346
Last seen: 6 years, 1 day
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: Ultra-Imperialist]
    #18895936 - 09/26/13 08:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah America has it pretty great.

And only at the cost of hundreds of thousands killed in other countries and the mass oppression of it's expendable lower class civilians.

Good for America.


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Offlinepsilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: Ultra-Imperialist] * 1
    #18896530 - 09/26/13 11:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

We have the best movies




  Fuck ya .


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
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Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: Ultra-Imperialist]
    #18896761 - 09/26/13 11:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

This sounds all peachy but not a very realistic view, I think America, globally as far as a socio-economic power, is on the decline.


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OfflineUltra-Imperialist
Strength and Honor
Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 30
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: Ok amoismis]
    #18897541 - 09/27/13 06:37 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ok amoismis said:
Yeah America has it pretty great.

And only at the cost of hundreds of thousands killed in other countries and the mass oppression of it's expendable lower class civilians.

Good for America.




Quote:

The United Nations Water Conference (1977), the International Drinking Water Supply and Sanitation Decade (1981-1990), the International Conference on Water and the Environment (1992) and the Earth Summit (1992) — all focused on this vital resource. The Decade, in particular, helped some 1.3 billion people in developing countries gain access to safe drinking water.




http://www.un.org/en/globalissues/water/

We are saving lives.

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
This sounds all peachy but not a very realistic view, I think America, globally as far as a socio-economic power, is on the decline.




A faction of the Neo-Cons had been betraying us for quite some time. That faction is currently being purged, but no matter what we have tremendous challenges ahead.

What we must do, is face the future with a forward thinking attitude based on technocratic leanings and innovation.

If we fail, Russia and China will probably end up at war, as will India and Pakistan. North Korea will attempt to invade the South, and all sorts of land grabs and grand alliances are likely to form.

With nuclear weapons proliferating, we can, as a sentient species, indeed all life on earth save for roaches and bacteria, ill afford even a single nuclear conflict among the Great Powers, and the only thing that keeps them in check is US Imperial presence.

We hit a bump, and now, learning from our mistakes, we can rebound.

What is changing is our culture, from a previous, hegemonic, republican based, to that of a democratic empire that is more pluralistic.


Edited by Ultra-Imperialist (09/27/13 06:51 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: Ultra-Imperialist]
    #18897951 - 09/27/13 09:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting OP.  Interesting perspective on imperialism.  I'm inclined to agree with some of it. :thumbup:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: Icelander]
    #18898003 - 09/27/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yep, me too. :yesnod:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #18898625 - 09/27/13 01:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Interesting OP.  Interesting perspective on imperialism.  I'm inclined to agree with some of it. :thumbup:



More straw men than you can shake a stick and it's an interesting take on imperialism only if you redefine the word


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,956
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18899391 - 09/27/13 04:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Is there a pool for how long before this puppet gets banned?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


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InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: Enlil]
    #18899643 - 09/27/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The op lives in a dream world. USA not corrupt? Big business and big money call all the shots, now more so than ever. The scotus decision allowing anyone even foreign powers to throw money into races was a disgrace.

USA keeping the peace? Lol, we really kept peace in afghanistan, didn't we? How about iraq? Libya? And syria? Ofumbles was thwarted in his ambition to stir the pot and get us involved then he was rescued by putin.

Sure, we've got it better than 1000 years ago, a lot better due to technology. But our presidents are picked by men with big money and the fools don't even know it. They are a little uneasy about the fact that every election is between bad and worse but they are told to not "waste" their vote on third parties because that would upset the demoblicans, the single party with 2 parts that rules the country.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Invisiblesetb
10th level beer nerd
Registered: 01/30/11
Posts: 2,580
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: Ultra-Imperialist]
    #18899654 - 09/27/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:lol: Al Qaeda is on the ropes alright, good one.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: Stonehenge]
    #18899684 - 09/27/13 05:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
The op lives in a dream world. USA not corrupt? Big business and big money call all the shots, now more so than ever. The scotus decision allowing anyone even foreign powers to throw money into races was a disgrace.

USA keeping the peace? Lol, we really kept peace in afghanistan, didn't we? How about iraq? Libya? And syria? Ofumbles was thwarted in his ambition to stir the pot and get us involved then he was rescued by putin.

Sure, we've got it better than 1000 years ago, a lot better due to technology. But our presidents are picked by men with big money and the fools don't even know it. They are a little uneasy about the fact that every election is between bad and worse but they are told to not "waste" their vote on third parties because that would upset the demoblicans, the single party with 2 parts that rules the country.




Good points, however the alternatives (Tea party and Libertarians) are hardly more palatable. What we need is a moderate leadership. One that is a little bit liberal and a little bit conservative without being too much of either. And one with a bit more compassion as well.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: Stonehenge] * 2
    #18899773 - 09/27/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
The op lives in a dream world. USA not corrupt? Big business and big money call all the shots, now more so than ever. The scotus decision allowing anyone even foreign powers to throw money into races was a disgrace.




Big business and big money call all the shots?  If that were so Obama would not be in the White House.  The Citizens United decision does not allow for foreign contributions and if you don't like money being spent on political campaigns by wealthy citizens then the newspapers and the TV and Hollywood and radio need to be shut down.  Or are some citizens more equal than others, Napolean?
Quote:



USA keeping the peace? Lol, we really kept peace in afghanistan, didn't we? How about iraq? Libya? And syria? Ofumbles was thwarted in his ambition to stir the pot and get us involved then he was rescued by putin.




We had fuck all to do with Libya and Syria and we were the point of an international spear in Afghanistan and Iraq.  You can make all the bullshit you want up but the fact is that we are the enforcers of decency in the world.  The rest of them are either scum or wimps.
Quote:



Sure, we've got it better than 1000 years ago, a lot better due to technology. But our presidents are picked by men with big money and the fools don't even know it. They are a little uneasy about the fact that every election is between bad and worse but they are told to not "waste" their vote on third parties because that would upset the demoblicans, the single party with 2 parts that rules the country.




WE have it better than 20 years ago.  You have to be insane to think that Obama was the choice of the money men.  The Tea Party is shaking up the Republicans.  Where are you with them?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: Le_Canard]
    #18899776 - 09/27/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
The op lives in a dream world. USA not corrupt? Big business and big money call all the shots, now more so than ever. The scotus decision allowing anyone even foreign powers to throw money into races was a disgrace.

USA keeping the peace? Lol, we really kept peace in afghanistan, didn't we? How about iraq? Libya? And syria? Ofumbles was thwarted in his ambition to stir the pot and get us involved then he was rescued by putin.

Sure, we've got it better than 1000 years ago, a lot better due to technology. But our presidents are picked by men with big money and the fools don't even know it. They are a little uneasy about the fact that every election is between bad and worse but they are told to not "waste" their vote on third parties because that would upset the demoblicans, the single party with 2 parts that rules the country.




Good points, however the alternatives (Tea party and Libertarians) are hardly more palatable. What we need is a moderate leadership. One that is a little bit liberal and a little bit conservative without being too much of either. And one with a bit more compassion as well.



More compassion means more liberal.  Fuck that.


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OfflineMightyWhite
Male
Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 3,629
Last seen: 2 hours, 28 minutes
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18899948 - 09/27/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:


More compassion means more liberal.  Fuck that.




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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
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Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: MightyWhite]
    #18900033 - 09/27/13 06:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Fucking A...  We are pleased to help other countries choose their democractic system, just like the united states--as long as it is the system WE want them to have.

And if they don't want our type of system we will bomb their asses back to the stone age because we are moral and righteous. :awesomenod:

:smug: :smirk:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: starfire_xes]
    #18900057 - 09/27/13 07:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Fucking A...  We are pleased to help other countries choose their democractic system, just like the united states--as long as it is the system WE want them to have.

And if they don't want our type of system we will bomb their asses back to the stone age because we are moral and righteous. :awesomenod:

:smug: :smirk:



Please provide one example of this.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #18900438 - 09/27/13 08:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

>Big business and big money call all the shots?  If that were so Obama would not be in the White House.

He is doing their work for them. Or do you think big insurance companies don't like obamacare? They love it. You have been taken in by the d vs r wrestling match.

>if you don't like money being spent on political campaigns by wealthy citizens then the newspapers and the TV and Hollywood and radio need to be shut down.  Or are some citizens more equal than others, Napolean?

They should be muzzled of course. The media is giving thinly disguised aid to the demos. What we have now is a shitfest of attack ads every where you look. Citizens v united was a terrible decision.

>We had fuck all to do with Libya and Syria and we were the point of an international spear in Afghanistan and Iraq.

We've been supplying arms to the rebels in syria and libya too. Or do you only believe what you read and see in the media? Even the media has talked about that. Point of an international spear??? We hoodwinked a few troops out of our allies but it was a usa operation. How did afghanistan and iraq turn out? You like chaos?

>WE have it better than 20 years ago.

Who is we? I have it better but the common man in the street is way worse off. You may be as deluded as the op.

Tea party and libertarians are not the only alternatives though either is better than d or r. There are greens (that will set off zap) and many others. I like ron paul though he has retired.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: Stonehenge] * 2
    #18900492 - 09/27/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>Big business and big money call all the shots?  If that were so Obama would not be in the White House.

He is doing their work for them. Or do you think big insurance companies don't like obamacare? They love it. You have been taken in by the d vs r wrestling match.




I don't think they give a shit one way or the other.  Why should they?
Quote:



>if you don't like money being spent on political campaigns by wealthy citizens then the newspapers and the TV and Hollywood and radio need to be shut down.  Or are some citizens more equal than others, Napolean?

They should be muzzled of course. The media is giving thinly disguised aid to the demos. What we have now is a shitfest of attack ads every where you look. Citizens v united was a terrible decision.



How was it terrible?  You really are quite the fascist if you think we should all be shut up.  Free speech is a right protected by the Constitution,  Maybe you should live in Russia.
Quote:



>We had fuck all to do with Libya and Syria and we were the point of an international spear in Afghanistan and Iraq.

We've been supplying arms to the rebels in syria and libya too. Or do you only believe what you read and see in the media? Even the media has talked about that. Point of an international spear??? We hoodwinked a few troops out of our allies but it was a usa operation. How did afghanistan and iraq turn out? You like chaos?




We did fuck all in Libya and Syria.  Libya was a French operation.  Syria?  So what if we give some assholes guns?  It hasn't amounted to dick.  A few troops out of our allies were hoodwinked?  I suspect there are quite a few Brits, Canadians and Aussies, among others, who would like to educate you in person.
Quote:

 

>WE have it better than 20 years ago.

Who is we? I have it better but the common man in the street is way worse off. You may be as deluded as the op.




The common man in the street is better off than he was 20 years ago.  He didn't have a cell phone then.
Quote:



Tea party and libertarians are not the only alternatives though either is better than d or r. There are greens (that will set off zap) and many others. I like ron paul though he has retired.




The Greens are civilization destroying trustafarian retards.  L. Ron Paul is an ignorant isolationist jackass.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: Osama bin Laden is Dead and the Democratic Empire Lives [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18902117 - 09/28/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Ron paul is one of the true conservatives, no wonder you don't like him. "isolationist" meaning he doesn't want us meddling in every shit pot in the world. Good for him.

I should clarify my remarks about the big shots picking obama. I really doubt they wanted him to win, they probably preferred romney, anyone would have been better. What you may have overlooked is they have to give the sheep some sort of choice or illusion of choice. If romney was the only candidate the sheep would revolt. So they pick the demo candidate that will both do as they are told on major issues and also are acceptable to the demos. Hillbilly would have worked but she was behind in the primaries and was paid off to quit fighting.

>The common man in the street is better off than he was 20 years ago.  He didn't have a cell phone then.

Average income in 1993 dollars is lower than it was then. It used to be the father worked and supported the family and was able to buy a house and save money. Today both work and are falling behind. I realize that does not concern you but the country as a whole is worse off.

>We did fuck all in Libya and Syria.  Libya was a French operation.  Syria?  So what if we give some assholes guns?  It hasn't amounted to dick.

We keep stirring up the anthills and the islamists who you hate end up in control. They almost took over in egypt. If we had meddled in egypt beyond throwing money at them, it would be islamist now instead of secular.

I know you hate to discuss issues and prefer to rant.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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