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OfflinePsleepyHead
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Registered: 02/11/13
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Re: Re-using Contamed Substrate Saves Money!!! [Re: 36fuckin5] * 1
    #19817109 - 04/09/14 07:09 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Traditionally, I've always considered the need for USDA organic ingredients unnecessary, however, I recently read that some commercial (agricultural) seeds are intentionally infected with trichoderma hazarium, so I'm reconsidering it for now. There's even a patent for cultivating this fungus. The mold is put there to suppress other fungi and to encourage the growth of the plants. Trichoderma and other fungi can affect other organisms with mycotoxins. By releasing an especially noxious metabolite, trichoderma makes it's surroundings less ideal for other fungi to grow in.

If your substrate was previously metabolized by trichoderma its probably going to contain mycotoxins. Also, if you used non-organic nutrition ingredients (like BRF), it might contain higher traces of mycotoxins. Personally, I'm skeptical that organic crop production affects anything but my wallet but I haven't seen proof either way. Also something to keep in mind is that mycotoxins themselves are not living, they're just waste products. Sterilizing infected substrate doesn't destroy the toxin unless maybe the heat catalyzes the chemical into something less toxic.

By the way, does anyone know of a grow log that tests organic vs non-organic BRF?

Here's some links on trichoderma hazarium and how it's used in agriculture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichoderma_harzianum#Mycoparasitism
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20649416


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Re-using Contamed Substrate Saves Money!!! [Re: fahtster]
    #19817176 - 04/09/14 07:43 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fahtster said:
it's frowned upon due to toxins released by the trich into the substrate being again consumed by the newly growing myc.




I can't believe I just read that, especially coming from you.

Trichoderma doesn't release toxins into the substrate, nor would the mushroom mycelium pick up toxins from molds if they did.  Trich is in every inch of farm and garden soil, so every vegetable you eat has been growing surrounded by it.  Where are the toxins?

Every substrate in nature is 'contaminated' with molds and bacteria, yet wild mushrooms are perfectly safe to eat.  Sterile procedure is simply so we can grow more indoor mushrooms in a small tray in six weeks than a few acres of pasture could deliver all summer.

Re-using contaminated substrates after sterilizing is kind of like restoring an '81 Yugo to brand-new condition after a wreck.  It will still be a piece of shit.
RR


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Registered: 09/04/09
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Re: Re-using Contamed Substrate Saves Money!!! [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19817186 - 04/09/14 07:50 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

I refused to read this thread before now because of the retarded title and only popped in to see RR flame the O

The only relevant knowledge I got from this thread was googling and now knowing exactly what an 81 Yugo looks like.

I'm honestly surprised this hasn't been locked.


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In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Re-using Contamed Substrate Saves Money!!! [Re: maddchef]
    #19817290 - 04/09/14 08:28 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

maddchef said:
I'm honestly surprised this hasn't been locked.




Why? The OP and other people in the thread have stated they've had success trying this. How many people have tossed their jars or bags at the first sign of a contaminant and wasted that substrate? As I always tell people, if it works for you keep doing it.

This is a forum for sharing cultivation ideas and information. You've read the argument for and against trying it. People should be allowed to choose for themselves how to use this information.  Why suppress it? Because the majority doesn't agree? Fuck that.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Re-using Contamed Substrate Saves Money!!! [Re: FooMan]
    #19817314 - 04/09/14 08:36 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

I've tried re-sterilizing my grain jars at the first sign of contamination to save them. Never have had success, but my grains we're prepared properly the first time I cooked them so they never did well on the second cooking.


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Re-using Contamed Substrate Saves Money!!! [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19817352 - 04/09/14 08:49 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

I've never resterilized any substrate, nor would I since I'd prefer to just get any contaminant away from my growing area ASAP to prevent any chance of the contaminant from spreading but again, if it works for other people more power to them.


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Registered: 09/04/09
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Re: Re-using Contamed Substrate Saves Money!!! [Re: FooMan]
    #19817457 - 04/09/14 09:26 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe I was a bit harsh but I was looking at it from a noob pov. There are plenty who come on here, read the front page, and put it into use. Now I know this isn't touted as a tek but I GUARANTEE someone will just look at the title then decide to go off and pc solid green jars, innoc them, then start 12 "why didn't this work" threads.

I agree discussion is what the forum is here for so my apologies for that.


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Re-using Contamed Substrate Saves Money!!! [Re: maddchef]
    #19817464 - 04/09/14 09:29 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

can't always worry about the children, if they're to stupid to not be able to figure it out then :shrug: spreading blatant disinformation though is really frowned on but this is probably in the grey area.


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InvisiblePirateSwazey
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Re: Re-using Contamed Substrate Saves Money!!! [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19817554 - 04/09/14 09:56 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

:minigun: can we all kill this one? ok.


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: Re-using Contamed Substrate Saves Money!!! [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19818044 - 04/09/14 11:55 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

fahtster said:
it's frowned upon due to toxins released by the trich into the substrate being again consumed by the newly growing myc.




I can't believe I just read that, especially coming from you.

Trichoderma doesn't release toxins into the substrate, nor would the mushroom mycelium pick up toxins from molds if they did.  Trich is in every inch of farm and garden soil, so every vegetable you eat has been growing surrounded by it.  Where are the toxins?

Every substrate in nature is 'contaminated' with molds and bacteria, yet wild mushrooms are perfectly safe to eat.  Sterile procedure is simply so we can grow more indoor mushrooms in a small tray in six weeks than a few acres of pasture could deliver all summer.

Re-using contaminated substrates after sterilizing is kind of like restoring an '81 Yugo to brand-new condition after a wreck.  It will still be a piece of shit.
RR




That's just what I was told when I did the experiment.  I thought it was a good idea when I did it, but it was shot down... that was 10ish years ago though.. I wasn't necessarily saying trich toxins, but like black mold etc.  I just had trich in my jars.  I'm guessing a lot has been discovered since and haven't read more into it.  My bad.  Now I know.

faht


Edited by fahtster (04/09/14 12:10 PM)


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: Re-using Contamed Substrate Saves Money!!! [Re: fahtster]
    #19818077 - 04/09/14 12:05 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Here's my original post... http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5778727

damn... my energy early on in my life must have been annoying to sooo many people.. lol  I'm glad I leveled out.  those jars I'm talking about are the ones that I posted earlier in this thread.  worked out fine.

I posted it at mycotopia and got the "it's a horrible idea because the mycelium will absorb the toxins left by the contaminates" by a bunch of people.  But I guess that's what I get for posting at mycotopia. lol

I guess my question is why it isn't a more widely used/mentioned option.. or is it and I'm just not looking in the right places? 

faht

Ps.  Fixed my original post as well.


Edited by fahtster (04/14/14 09:25 PM)


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InvisibleMrGiraffe

Registered: 04/04/14
Posts: 3,149
Re: Re-using Contamed Substrate Saves Money!!! [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19818122 - 04/09/14 12:22 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:

Re-using contaminated substrates after sterilizing is kind of like restoring an '81 Yugo to brand-new condition after a wreck.  It will still be a piece of shit.
RR




Ahahahaha this was awesome to read, probably because my Ma had a Yugo for a yard ornament for quite a few years.


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