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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞
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Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: Icelander]
    #18907152 - 09/29/13 01:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904106704576583203589408180.html

I think this should provide you with what you want.




Written by the same fella' doing the lecture in the video in my OP. :thumbup:

Quote:

Icelander said:
I think we are at least as emotionally violent as we have ever been and maybe much more so but on vaster and more subtle levels.




Most definitely. Intellectual and emotional violence are the only forms I deal with on a daily basis, I wish I could provide evidence showing how pervasive it is in at least our culture, but as far as I can find, their hasn't been much work done in this area.

But, I'd suggest that one needs to look no further than in the threads on the Shroomery, especially in those with the ability to evoke cognitive dissonance, to find the 'truth' in this.


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To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18907185 - 09/29/13 01:38 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Beats me.

Isn't it obvious the past 100 years on Earth were the most violent ones?




The opposite is obvious if you actually study it. Or do you have a spiffy time machine you can use to take Ted and check out any period in history?
Quote:



Did you read the article?

Not yet.




I didn't think so.  You have a dogma problem.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #18907190 - 09/29/13 01:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Raven Gnosis said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904106704576583203589408180.html

I think this should provide you with what you want.




Written by the same fella' doing the lecture in the video in my OP. :thumbup:

Quote:

Icelander said:
I think we are at least as emotionally violent as we have ever been and maybe much more so but on vaster and more subtle levels.




Most definitely. Intellectual and emotional violence are the only forms I deal with on a daily basis, I wish I could provide evidence showing how pervasive it is in at least our culture, but as far as I can find, their hasn't been much work done in this area.

But, I'd suggest that one needs to look no further than in the threads on the Shroomery, especially in those with the ability to evoke cognitive dissonance, to find the 'truth' in this.




That isn't violence.  Telling someone that they are a stupid poopyhead and making their chapped ass cry is not violent.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18907289 - 09/29/13 02:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

The opposite is obvious if you actually study it. Or do you have a spiffy time machine you can use to take Ted and check out any period in history?

It looks like you struggle with reading comprehension, let me help you:

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Most:

1.
a. Greatest in number: won the most votes.
b. Greatest in amount, extent, or degree: has the most compassion.
2. In the greatest number of instances: Most fish have fins.
n.
1. The greatest amount or degree: She has the most to gain.
2. Slang The greatest, best, or most exciting. Used with the: That party was the most!
pron.
1. In or to the highest degree or extent. Used with many adjectives and adverbs to form the superlative degree: most honest; most impatiently.
2. Very: a most impressive piece of writing.
3. Informal Almost: Most everyone agrees.

Violent:

1. Marked by, acting with, or resulting from great force: a violent attack.
2. Having or showing great emotional force: violent dislike.
3. Marked by intensity; extreme: violent pain; a violent squall. See Synonyms at intense.
4. Caused by unexpected force or injury rather than by natural causes: a violent death.
5. Tending to distort or injure meaning, phrasing, or intent.

Century:

1. Abbr. C. or c. or cent.
a. A period of 100 years.
b. Each of the successive periods of 100 years before or since the advent of the Christian era.
2.
a. A unit of the Roman army originally consisting of 100 men.
b. One of the 193 electoral divisions of the Roman people.
3. A group of 100 things.


Using one of the major dictionaries online:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/
I don't think other major dictionaries vary much in these rather basic and general definitions.



Doesn't most violent century simply mean total amount of violence or victims of war per century?

I didn't think so.  You have a dogma problem.

How so?


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As far as I assume to know...

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18907319 - 09/29/13 02:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Read the article.  It is pretty clear.  I can only lead the horse to water.  Better yet, he has written a whole book on the matter.  Read that
The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined
http://www.amazon.com/The-Better-Angels-Our-Nature/dp/1455883115
Available at Amazon.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18907337 - 09/29/13 02:23 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You answered neither of my two questions, how surprising.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18907588 - 09/29/13 03:25 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
You answered neither of my two questions, how surprising.



What questions?  I sent you to a source of somebody who actually did the research.  Do I need to hold your hand?.  You didn't watch the video, as far as I know you didn't read the article and I'm doubly sure you will never read the book.  You don't care to learn.  Dogma.  You are the same as the Creationists.


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞
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Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
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Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18907639 - 09/29/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:


That isn't violence.  Telling someone that they are a stupid poopyhead and making their chapped ass cry is not violent.





From what I have learned and pondered for myself, violence is not a thing limited to physicality, its different forms are gone over in many abuse counseling courses.
If I recall correctly, our words violate and violence come from the the Latin word 'violare'? which in essence are words used to describe impetuousness, which by no means is limited to physical interaction, albeit that being the most common and hence appropriate context in which it is used and understood.

I've seen varying degrees of these very behaviors among a large handful of members here, and hence would be inclined to disagree. :shrug:


Emotional Violence

Emotional violence occurs when someone says or does something to make you feel stupid or worthless. Emotional violence includes, but is not limited to, the following:
  • name calling;
  • constant criticism;
  • blaming all relationship problems on you;
  • humiliating or belittling you in front of others;
  • using silent treatment;
  • confinement to the home;
  • not allowing you to have contact with family and friends;
  • destroying possessions;
  • threats;
  • jealousy;
  • intimidation;
  • stalking;
  • threatening to take the children; and
  • threatening to commit suicide.



Psychological Violence

    Psychological violence occurs when someone uses threats and causes fear in you to gain control. Psychological violence includes, but is not limited to, the following:

  • threatening to harm you, your children or your family if you leave;
  • threatening to harm themselves;
  • threats of violence;
  • threats of abandonment;
  • destruction of your personal property;
  • social isolation from your family and friends;
  • confinement to the home;
  • verbal aggression; and
  • constant humiliation.


    Spiritual Violence

    Spiritual violence occurs when someone uses your religious or spiritual beliefs to manipulate, dominate, or control you. Spiritual violence includes, but is not limited to, the following:


  • trying to prevent you from practicing your religious or spiritual beliefs;
  • making fun of your religious or spiritual beliefs;
  • forcing you to raise your children in another religion or spiritual choice; and
  • using your religious or spiritual beliefs to manipulate, dominate or control you.


--------------------
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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #18907691 - 09/29/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

What questions?

My two questions in this post.

You didn't watch the video, as far as I know you didn't read the article and I'm doubly sure you will never read the book.  You don't care to learn.  Dogma.  You are the same as the Creationists.

Just how do I submit to Dogma?


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...

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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,301
Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #18907794 - 09/29/13 04:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

War and tribal conflict could account for a larger percentage of deaths than today. In between those times the level of violence wouldn't have needed to be high to support the anthropological evidence. I'm not sure if we're living in the age of reason or the age of plenty.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞
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Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
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Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: Rahz]
    #18907995 - 09/29/13 05:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
War and tribal conflict could account for a larger percentage of deaths than today. In between those times the level of violence wouldn't have needed to be high to support the anthropological evidence. I'm not sure if we're living in the age of reason or the age of plenty.




:thumbup: :feelsweirdman:


--------------------
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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18908030 - 09/29/13 05:31 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
What questions?

My two questions in this post.

You didn't watch the video, as far as I know you didn't read the article and I'm doubly sure you will never read the book.  You don't care to learn.  Dogma.  You are the same as the Creationists.

Just how do I submit to Dogma?




I don't think you know what the word means.  You have your viewpoint and aren't the least bit interested in educating yourself.  You are dogmatic.  You have created your own dogma.

The answer to this question, "Doesn't most violent century simply mean total amount of violence or victims of war per century?" is, obviously, "no".  If there are 6 million people on the planet and 3 million die violently that is far more violent than if there are 6 billion people on the planet and 12 million die violently.  Duh.


--------------------

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #18908042 - 09/29/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Raven Gnosis said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:


That isn't violence.  Telling someone that they are a stupid poopyhead and making their chapped ass cry is not violent.





From what I have learned and pondered for myself, violence is not a thing limited to physicality, its different forms are gone over in many abuse counseling courses.
If I recall correctly, our words violate and violence come from the the Latin word 'violare'? which in essence are words used to describe impetuousness, which by no means is limited to physical interaction, albeit that being the most common and hence appropriate context in which it is used and understood.

I've seen varying degrees of these very behaviors among a large handful of members here, and hence would be inclined to disagree. :shrug:


Emotional Violence

Emotional violence occurs when someone says or does something to make you feel stupid or worthless. Emotional violence includes, but is not limited to, the following:
  • name calling;
  • constant criticism;
  • blaming all relationship problems on you;
  • humiliating or belittling you in front of others;
  • using silent treatment;
  • confinement to the home;
  • not allowing you to have contact with family and friends;
  • destroying possessions;
  • threats;
  • jealousy;
  • intimidation;
  • stalking;
  • threatening to take the children; and
  • threatening to commit suicide.



Psychological Violence

    Psychological violence occurs when someone uses threats and causes fear in you to gain control. Psychological violence includes, but is not limited to, the following:

  • threatening to harm you, your children or your family if you leave;
  • threatening to harm themselves;
  • threats of violence;
  • threats of abandonment;
  • destruction of your personal property;
  • social isolation from your family and friends;
  • confinement to the home;
  • verbal aggression; and
  • constant humiliation.


    Spiritual Violence

    Spiritual violence occurs when someone uses your religious or spiritual beliefs to manipulate, dominate, or control you. Spiritual violence includes, but is not limited to, the following:


  • trying to prevent you from practicing your religious or spiritual beliefs;
  • making fun of your religious or spiritual beliefs;
  • forcing you to raise your children in another religion or spiritual choice; and
  • using your religious or spiritual beliefs to manipulate, dominate or control you.




That is mostly a crock of shit.  What a perversion of the language if you think that is violence.  Find another word.


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞
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Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
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Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18908125 - 09/29/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Can you substantiate that it is a crock of shit and a perversion of the word? :shrug:

As I stated, it's etymological roots are in the Latin word 'violare' which is to dishonor, violate, use violence against, with fervor or vehemence. The word violence is as multi-contextual as its root word, which was shown in liquidlounge's dictionary reference.

Violent:

1. Marked by, acting with, or resulting from great force: a violent attack.
2. Having or showing great emotional force: violent dislike.
3. Marked by intensity; extreme: violent pain; a violent squall. See Synonyms at intense.
4. Caused by unexpected force or injury rather than by natural causes: a violent death.
5. Tending to distort or injure meaning, phrasing, or intent.

What you're doing seems to fall into the fifth description of violent given here. :blush:


--------------------
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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #18908261 - 09/29/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

name calling;
constant criticism;
blaming all relationship problems on you;
humiliating or belittling you in front of others;
using silent treatment;




Get the fuck out of here with this nonsense.  You belittle victims of real violence.  Is this post an example of violent behavior in your mind?  Because I most certainly intend to ridicule your opinion.

Violence
1
a :  exertion of physical force so as to injure or abuse (as in warfare effecting illegal entry into a house)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18908309 - 09/29/13 06:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well I agree to a degree.  Emotional violence can be done against children quite easily imo and while I think that no one can emotionally do us harm (as adults) without our consent we often do ourselves emotional harm.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: Icelander]
    #18908375 - 09/29/13 06:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Well I agree to a degree.  Emotional violence can be done against children quite easily imo and while I think that no one can emotionally do us harm (as adults) without our consent we often do ourselves emotional harm.



:facepalm:  I don't think suicide qualifies as violence


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
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Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18908391 - 09/29/13 06:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry I said nothing about suicide. :lol: 

And do you claim emotional violence is not ever done against children?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: Icelander]
    #18908404 - 09/29/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

"Abuse", yes.  There is no such thing as emotional "violence".


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
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Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Ted Talks: The surprising decline in violence. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18908428 - 09/29/13 06:58 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You're playing semantics imo.   

Another example is someone who cuts themselves. They don't do it out of boredom.  It's their self talk/internal thought process that drives them to violence against themselves. There's a connection there.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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