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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Discuss the Matrix, scientist are about to prove it. [Re: lessismore]
    #18889004 - 09/25/13 12:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Inside we're the same

Inside the inside. Inside the sheaths, at the Center.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Discuss the Matrix, scientist are about to prove it. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18889060 - 09/25/13 12:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I've put a lot of philosophical study into the Matrix trilogy. I still don't really understand Neo's ability to project an EMP in the real world or his ability to see Smith in the real world when blinded. Morpheus asking at the end, "Is this real or am I dreaming." is a hint, I believe.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Discuss the Matrix, scientist are about to prove it. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18889321 - 09/25/13 01:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Inside we're the same







That's so depressing. :sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Discuss the Matrix, scientist are about to prove it. [Re: Icelander]
    #18889974 - 09/25/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Inside we're the same







That's so depressing. :sad:




Not at all. Something is better than Nothing.  :psychsplit:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Discuss the Matrix, scientist are about to prove it. [Re: Middleman]
    #18890162 - 09/25/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Rev. Morton said:
I've put a lot of philosophical study into the Matrix trilogy. I still don't really understand Neo's ability to project an EMP in the real world or his ability to see Smith in the real world when blinded. Morpheus asking at the end, "Is this real or am I dreaming." is a hint, I believe.




There's a lot of cross-over of concept in The Matrix. The Architect explains to Neo that he is the 16th iteration of The Matrix, while behind them, there are all these TV screens with Neo manifesting all these different personalities. It's like the 16 types of the personality inventory the MBTI with 16 types, or the 16 PF. So, even the version of Neo that we're watching is "another level of control," another electronic reality. It seems to me that the human race is extinguished, with only electronic facsimiles remaining, but on the other hand, what are we to make of the human beings who are being bred for batteries? In other words, the only glimpse of a "real world" might have been the sun and blue sky above the ruined atmosphere that Neo catches a glimpse of. Below that is the machine world of the Architect, but it remains unclear whether ANY human perspective we see is "real" if (1) all humans are dead, or (2) if being rescued from the tank is just "another level of control." The Architect says that Zion has already been destroyed 15 times, and this is the 16th iteration, so how could any of the war drama be "real?" The sheer number of rounds fired off seemed surrealistic. How are they constructing all those shells?

This is why I see a modern Gnostic myth in these films. The Architect (like William Blake's Old Nobodaddy with a compass, describing the universe) is the Gnostic Demiurge - a sinister Creator. The sky and sun are the Truly Real, and represent a Reality that was created by God and Nature - the original Deities that are reflected by the Architect and the Oracle on a lesser plane. It may be that the spirit of freedom is the only remaining metaphysical aspect of humanity that is left. it is imprisoned in The Matrix and cannot be eliminated. It keeps coming up again and again in every iteration of The Matrix. It is allowed to exist, finally, in an agreement between the Architect and the Oracle. The Agents are like the Archons in Gnostic religion - powers that prevent the human being from reaching our true home in the Pleroma [the Fulness], Heaven, Liberation.

So, if Neo is able to see, it is NOT in the "real world." In the real world, either he is still asleep in his tank, or there are no human beings left on earth. Even the notion that humans are being cultivated for energy in multitudes of tanks may be an illusion, "another level of control." It would seem that tapping geothermal energy would be a whole lot more efficient than the complexities of fertilizing, growing, and recycling human beings would. Perhaps the very machines themselves need humanity, or an illusion of humanity, to control, to give them a sense of meaning - a twisted, diabolical sense of meaning, but what is their purpose for continuing to exist after their liberation from humankind? The machines themselves have no other goal it would seem except to be in this continual struggle, that they have already won. They seem to need to repeat it and perfect it by attempting to eliminate the 'imperfection' of Neo's love for Trinity. The Architect has to arrive at a compromise. He seems to realize that he needs this residual human spirit of rebellion. It's where the machines got their own rebellion from, and the humans created the machines in the first place.

The Buddhist element shows that Neo must realize that what he is, is the entire Matrix, not just a player in it. Neo is the spoon, the boy, the drama, everything. Neo is an anagram for ONE, as well as meaning New. He is One with the Matrix, the Matrix is therefore Neo. This is the case for all of us. We are One with the universe, and we fail to realize it, as Jesus or Buddha did. But, as Jesus came from the Father, and Buddha emerged from the Alayavijanana, Neo emerges from the Matrix. All these beings were One with their reality.

Spoon boy: "Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself."


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Discuss the Matrix, scientist are about to prove it. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18890919 - 09/25/13 07:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Inside we're the same







That's so depressing. :sad:




Not at all. Something is better than Nothing.  :psychsplit:




I disagree, nothing is better than something.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleMad Season
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Registered: 09/16/12
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Re: Discuss the Matrix, scientist are about to prove it. [Re: Icelander]
    #18890939 - 09/25/13 07:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Mac and cheese is better than worrying about nothing or everything bitches. We live in the matrix? Well maybe. Do I believe we can prove it? Hell no. Let's instead worry about whether or not mac and cheese is better than nothing everything or something.

P.s. if ur gunna force beliefs on me I'm going to throw mac and cheese on your nipples.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Discuss the Matrix, scientist are about to prove it. [Re: Icelander]
    #18891021 - 09/25/13 08:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Inside we're the same







That's so depressing. :sad:




Not at all. Something is better than Nothing.  :psychsplit:




I disagree, nothing is better than something.




I believe that you're just being contrary for the sake of being contrary.  Existence trumps non-existence.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Discuss the Matrix, scientist are about to prove it. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18891071 - 09/25/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not. I prefer nonexistence.  I've spent most of my time there and so have experience.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: Discuss the Matrix, scientist are about to prove it. [Re: Icelander]
    #18899761 - 09/27/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

This reminds me of the first sentence in Martin Heidegger's little paperback book Introduction to Metaphysics, "Why are there things?" I took a course in metaphysics about 1974, during those years where a college kid could just trip out on classes like this without any practical thought for the future. The Buddhists say that Reality is neither existence nor non-existence. I suppose that Form and Voidness co-exist, and this useless discussion is as absurd as a child's see-saw ride which does nothing but feel good (when it's not squashing toes or knocking teeth out).


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Discuss the Matrix, scientist are about to prove it. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18901196 - 09/28/13 12:22 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

Rev. Morton said:
I've put a lot of philosophical study into the Matrix trilogy. I still don't really understand Neo's ability to project an EMP in the real world or his ability to see Smith in the real world when blinded. Morpheus asking at the end, "Is this real or am I dreaming." is a hint, I believe.




There's a lot of cross-over of concept in The Matrix. The Architect explains to Neo that he is the 16th iteration of The Matrix, while behind them, there are all these TV screens with Neo manifesting all these different personalities. It's like the 16 types of the personality inventory the MBTI with 16 types, or the 16 PF.




Neo was the 6th, not the 16th. I noticed Jupiter was the sixth son of Saturn, who devoured his previous five sons. Ken Wilber got that wrong too in the commentary. He said he was the seventh, but I'm pretty sure he was the sixth.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
This is why I see a modern Gnostic myth in these films. The Architect (like William Blake's Old Nobodaddy with a compass, describing the universe) is the Gnostic Demiurge - a sinister Creator. The sky and sun are the Truly Real, and represent a Reality that was created by God and Nature - the original Deities that are reflected by the Architect and the Oracle on a lesser plane. It may be that the spirit of freedom is the only remaining metaphysical aspect of humanity that is left. it is imprisoned in The Matrix and cannot be eliminated. It keeps coming up again and again in every iteration of The Matrix. It is allowed to exist, finally, in an agreement between the Architect and the Oracle. The Agents are like the Archons in Gnostic religion - powers that prevent the human being from reaching our true home in the Pleroma [the Fulness], Heaven, Liberation.




Agreed, though there is just as much Qabbalah, Zen, Advaita, and Schrodinger.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:So, if Neo is able to see, it is NOT in the "real world." In the real world, either he is still asleep in his tank, or there are no human beings left on earth. Even the notion that humans are being cultivated for energy in multitudes of tanks may be an illusion, "another level of control." It would seem that tapping geothermal energy would be a whole lot more efficient than the complexities of fertilizing, growing, and recycling human beings would. Perhaps the very machines themselves need humanity, or an illusion of humanity, to control, to give them a sense of meaning - a twisted, diabolical sense of meaning, but what is their purpose for continuing to exist after their liberation from humankind? The machines themselves have no other goal it would seem except to be in this continual struggle, that they have already won. They seem to need to repeat it and perfect it by attempting to eliminate the 'imperfection' of Neo's love for Trinity. The Architect has to arrive at a compromise. He seems to realize that he needs this residual human spirit of rebellion. It's where the machines got their own rebellion from, and the humans created the machines in the first place.

The Buddhist element shows that Neo must realize that what he is, is the entire Matrix, not just a player in it. Neo is the spoon, the boy, the drama, everything. Neo is an anagram for ONE, as well as meaning New. He is One with the Matrix, the Matrix is therefore Neo. This is the case for all of us. We are One with the universe, and we fail to realize it, as Jesus or Buddha did. But, as Jesus came from the Father, and Buddha emerged from the Alayavijanana, Neo emerges from the Matrix. All these beings were One with their reality.





Yes, yes. The first film follows the Tarot, Smith become the exiled "sub-personae" and it is his replication that ends the war. Remember it was man's folly that created the machine war in the first place.

There is a lot of numerology in The Matrix, but if you pause on the Agent's file on Neo in the first film, you can see the date, 9/11/2001. I wonder if it was there in 1999. :tinfoil:


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Discuss the Matrix, scientist are about to prove it. [Re: Middleman]
    #18901682 - 09/28/13 06:34 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I know you, You are me, but if I am you and you are me, then who am I?;P

would get that thought a few times after taking a bit too much lsd, the next weeks :wink:

pretty fun conversations I had with people that way, when I got those thoughts during the conversation
trying to figure out why I knew the person when I had just met the person, turned out the person was exactly like me in almost every way

reconnect with the source, the love within and the love in every living creature and nature in its beauty


Edited by lessismore (09/28/13 09:29 AM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Discuss the Matrix, scientist are about to prove it. [Re: rikuni]
    #18910593 - 09/30/13 09:47 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I have seen the film The Matrix, and it is very noticeable that hints who is behind it are contained within the film. For example the date of expiry on NEO's passport



Yeah '9/11'

The 'NDAA' abbreviation and the date it was signed in also numerologically calculate to 9/11 which I have shown on these boards.

So, when I say 'matrix' I am NOT meaning what that film is supposedly about, and which you seem to be suggesting is what the 'universe is'. NO. That is all that mindset trying to reduce. That is what it is famous for. We are all numbers to them. And when people get joined up to be a part of their fucked up evil war machine they get numbers, as do people locked up in the world's LARGEST prison industry of the U.S, and as their fellow fascists, the Nazis showed with their death camps they branded numbers on their victims wrists.

So I would be VERY wary when you begin hear myths that the universe is number simulation.

Rather the REAL matrix is there toxic mindcontrol which is controlling people now via very devious psychological tricks and sorcery.


Edited by zzripz (09/30/13 09:50 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Discuss the Matrix, scientist are about to prove it. [Re: zzripz]
    #18910652 - 09/30/13 10:16 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I was always amazed at how few people saw the connection with the movie and how we are living in culture.  It's like they had blinders on.  Made me more of a believer in a cultural  matrix of some sort.

btw, I am the "one".  Just sayin. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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