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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Bird watching
#18887499 - 09/25/13 12:29 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I find myself becoming attracted to watching birds do bird stuff.
What do birds and other animals do to react to each other so quickly?
How is their group-think so efficient?
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
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Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Bird watching [Re: cez]
#18887633 - 09/25/13 01:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Cool that you're recognizing the intelligence and beauty of the animal kingdom. 
I have a soft spot for birds, end up doing a lot of bird watching while out in the bush.
The 'think dynamic' among birds varies from species to species.
European Starlings for instance, can flock by the thousands and act much like a singular organism as they move around in a surreal fluid like manner, establishing social position for the massive roost, among other things. They are also in the Myna family which gives them the ability to mimic a great deal of other bird calls and random sounds...
Or the intelligence of crows. (Full Episode-NATURE A Murder of Crows)
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Bird watching [Re: cez]
#18887860 - 09/25/13 04:43 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
cez said: I find myself becoming attracted to watching birds do bird stuff.
What do birds and other animals do to react to each other so quickly?
How is their group-think so efficient?
They react mostly out of instinct rather than thought like we do so there is no conflicted thoughts to slow them. I do a lot of bird/animal watching too.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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I'm starting to draw very similar conclusions about humans, albeit our manner of doing so seems more complex and trickier to notice in ourselves and each-other. (I'm assuming it's a similar intellectual function as the mental structures born of death anxiety, a thing we shield ourselves against due to its dis-quieting nature.)
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
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Quote:
Icelander said: They react mostly out of instinct rather than thought like we do so there is no conflicted thoughts to slow them. I do a lot of bird/animal watching too.
Even if we act based on thought, that thought is entirely instinctual.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Bird watching [Re: NetDiver]
#18889206 - 09/25/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's not my point however. Our thoughts tend to be all too often in conflict with each other.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Raven,
Those videos
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
cez said: I find myself becoming attracted to watching birds do bird stuff.
What do birds and other animals do to react to each other so quickly?
How is their group-think so efficient?
They react mostly out of instinct rather than thought like we do so there is no conflicted thoughts to slow them. I do a lot of bird/animal watching too.
How do you think each individual instinct is intuitively the same though (for the most part)?
It makes me think we as humans are damned with the power of intellect and self-reflection, regardless of how awesome we think it is.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Bird watching [Re: cez]
#18889675 - 09/25/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Not sure what you mean by that question?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Sry, I don't know how to express my curiosity towards this subject in a logical way
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falcon



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Re: Bird watching [Re: cez]
#18890274 - 09/25/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Depends on the bird, but something the size of a robin is gonna have a heart rate of about 550 beats a minute, so they may be doing everything else quicker too.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Bird watching [Re: falcon] 2
#18890589 - 09/25/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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There are many fish species that act exactly the same way
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
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Re: Bird watching [Re: cez]
#18890711 - 09/25/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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The "group-think" you're describing could be considered swarming. It's the behavior that allows starlings to form massive, cohesive groups. Fish swarm, too. Surprisingly, humans do, too (big surprise: we're followers).
The incredible thing about swarms is that they look unnervingly complex, but they are actually emergent properties born from a few rules each individual within the swarm follows. For example, starlings swarm based on what the majority of their neighbors are doing. One can appreciate how this simple rule breaks into a ripple effect when the number within the group grows.
So, out of a few variables, this crazy thing arises.
 Alignment with only the closest neighbors produces … nothing but a disordered swarm.
 Raise the alignment and the chaotic swarm swirls into a doughnut shape called a torus.
You've likely heard of feedback, whether in regards to something simple like getting a grade on an assignment or something complex, like electrical circuits. I think the underlying concept to swarming is that the feedback reaches a critical mass (which is dependent on the total population of the group, as well as environmental factors & prob fucktons of other variables) and sets off a chain reaction. Swarming is the result of a positive feedback loop (a type of feedback that amplifies a reaction, rather than suppresses it).
I got the images from Wired magazine's article How the Science of Swarms Can Help Us Fight Cancer and Predict the Future. It is definitely worth a read if you're interested in decision making, systems theory, feedback mechanisms, and other stuff like that.
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full blown human
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Loc: Under the C
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You just killed the idea of telepathic communication among animals! 
Next you will tell us that water does not understand English and respond to emotion: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread972472/pg1&mem=
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
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I prepare my water with tender, loving care and try not to waste it. It tastes better that way.
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full blown human
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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If you read that ATS thread it is filled with enough fail to last a lifetime. However, it does present some great business opportunities... *rubs hands together greedily*
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Mr Person



Registered: 02/02/12
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Falconry is where it's at. It's like birdwatching where you bring your own bird. I've decided this is going to be a future hobby for me within the next 5-10 years. I need to carve out the time for apprenticeship and caring for a bird, but I think it would be totally worth it. As far as hunting methods go it's probably one of the most ethically sound there is .
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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I am enjoying all the contributions to this thread. ...I feel like I just learned something! 
I considered fish pretty much dumb, but I overlooked their "swarming" capabilities...I'm sure they have other neat tendencies too that I'm just ignorant of.
..And falconry would be fucking awesome.
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falcon



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Re: Bird watching [Re: cez]
#19473366 - 01/25/14 06:23 PM (10 years, 5 days ago) |
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Bird watching [Re: falcon]
#19473472 - 01/25/14 06:49 PM (10 years, 5 days ago) |
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I have a pretty cool feeding station. At times over 30 birds and maybe 6 or more species at a time. My faves are Goldfinches and Northern Flickers. http://sdakotabirds.com/species_photos/northern_flicker_4.htm http://sdakotabirds.com/species/american_goldfinch_info.htm
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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