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LordHufungus
Stranger
Registered: 08/11/13
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Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms?
#18881650 - 09/23/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I believe that my PF cakes are producing less potent mushrooms as they age. I saw another thread asking if that was the case, but without a definite answer.
Here is why I think so. The first two shrooms from this grow, I ate as testers and they knocked my socks off. All the ones since then I have been drying. Then 2 days ago I gave some (dried) to a friend. She felt nothing so I took some myself, and I also felt nothing. I thought it might have been due to the drying so I ate some fresh ones the next day. Also no effect but that could be due to tolerance from the day before.
HOWEVER... two more observations factor into my hypothesis. One, the latest mushrooms (just picked) did not turn blue when I pinched or cut them. Two, they have hollow stems, which the first ones did not.
So I ask you this:
1. Do you think that the mushrooms lose potency as the nutrients are lost from the cake, or some other reason?
2. Why are the stems hollow?
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PrinceShroom
Experienced Mofo



Registered: 04/01/13
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: LordHufungus]
#18881660 - 09/23/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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1. Flush to flush there is different amounts of psilocybe and psilocilin in the mushrooms 2. Cube stems are usually always hollow
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  WAR IS PEACE FREEDOM IS SLAVERY IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH Need help? Feel free to me.
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myplague240


Registered: 03/17/13
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: PrinceShroom]
#18881850 - 09/23/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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LordHufungus, if you are using MS that plays a big factor on the genetics including potency. Also, you should be picking them just before the veil breaks open.. less you want to take a print.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,811
Loc: Canada
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: PrinceShroom]
#18881883 - 09/23/13 07:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrinceShroom said: 2. Cube stems are usually always hollow

Does this look hollow 

Also, there is nothing definitive to suggest that bluing has any correlation to potency.
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LordHufungus
Stranger
Registered: 08/11/13
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#18881985 - 09/23/13 07:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
myplague240 said: LordHufungus, if you are using MS that plays a big factor on the genetics including potency. Also, you should be picking them just before the veil breaks open.. less you want to take a print.
without knowing exactly what MS is, i'm going to say no, i'm not using it. and i have been pretty good about picking them just as you say, when the veil breaks.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Also, there is nothing definitive to suggest that bluing has any correlation to potency.
i read somewhere that the blue is psilocin oxidizing. is that correct? if true, then more blue = more psilocin. how could it be otherwise?
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myplague240


Registered: 03/17/13
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: LordHufungus]
#18882000 - 09/23/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ms stands for multi-spore.
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PrinceShroom
Experienced Mofo



Registered: 04/01/13
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: myplague240]
#18882005 - 09/23/13 07:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
myplague240 said: Ms stands for multi-spore.
In other words did you use a syringe to inoculate?
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  WAR IS PEACE FREEDOM IS SLAVERY IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH Need help? Feel free to me.
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twistedty
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#18882012 - 09/23/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
PrinceShroom said: 2. Cube stems are usually always hollow

Does this look hollow 

Also, there is nothing definitive to suggest that bluing has any correlation to potency.
depends on the temps, the cooler temps around low 70s produce meaty stems vs growing in 80s which can produce hollower stems
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bodhisatta 
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Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: LordHufungus]
#18882025 - 09/23/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
without knowing exactly what MS is, i'm going to say no, i'm not using it. and i have been pretty good about picking them just as you say, when the veil breaks.
If you don't know what a MS syringe is (multi spore) then you probably are using one.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Also, there is nothing definitive to suggest that bluing has any correlation to potency.
Quote:
i read somewhere that the blue is psilocin oxidizing. is that correct? if true, then more blue = more psilocin. how could it be otherwise?
Some trusted people have stated that they have isolates of active cubes that don't bruise blue. They perhaps do 99% of the time but it's nothing related to % potency.
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: twistedty]
#18882087 - 09/23/13 08:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
twistedty said: depends on the temps, the cooler temps around low 70s produce meaty stems vs growing in 80s which can produce hollower stems
Oh I understand that, in the summer my temps are high, sometimes into the 80's while in the winter there cool sometimes barely making 65. But I have had exceptions to the rule and cloned a few cause I like meaty shrooms. Still I would say that environment aside, making a blanket statement like "cubes are always hollow", needs to be clarified.
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PrinceShroom
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Registered: 04/01/13
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: PrinceShroom]
#18882141 - 09/23/13 08:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrinceShroom said: 1. Flush to flush there is different amounts of psilocybe and psilocilin in the mushrooms 2. Cube stems are usually always hollow
If you want to go around talking about grammar you should make sure you get it right... There are exceptions to every rule.
Cubes are usually hollow and I stand by that.
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  WAR IS PEACE FREEDOM IS SLAVERY IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH Need help? Feel free to me.
Edited by PrinceShroom (09/23/13 08:20 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: PrinceShroom]
#18882207 - 09/23/13 08:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrinceShroom said:
Quote:
PrinceShroom said: 2. Cube stems are usually always hollow
If you want to go around talking about grammar you should make sure you get it right... There are exceptions to every rule.
Cubes are usually hollow and I stand by that.
You call that good grammar? Nevermind.
Cubes are usually hollow or solid depending on genetics and environment. I stand by that.
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LordHufungus
Stranger
Registered: 08/11/13
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: bodhisatta]
#18882972 - 09/23/13 11:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: If you don't know what a MS syringe is (multi spore) then you probably are using one.
Ohhhh, I did use a syringe. so what everyone is saying is that the syringe contains spores from different mushrooms with different genetics, and that may account for all the differences I noticed. (Right?)
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Some trusted people have stated that they have isolates of active cubes that don't bruise blue. They perhaps do 99% of the time but it's nothing related to % potency.
So does this mean we don't know exactly what makes it blue?
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#18883001 - 09/23/13 11:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
LordHufungus said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: If you don't know what a MS syringe is (multi spore) then you probably are using one.
Ohhhh, I did use a syringe. so what everyone is saying is that the syringe contains spores from different mushrooms with different genetics, and that may account for all the differences I noticed. (Right?)
Yep!
Quote:
LordHufungus said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Some trusted people have stated that they have isolates of active cubes that don't bruise blue. They perhaps do 99% of the time but it's nothing related to % potency.
So does this mean we don't know exactly what makes it blue?
Blue bruising is the oxidation of phenolic compounds, unrelated to the actives. This is why blue bruising is not a good indicator to use by itself when identifying wild mushrooms.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
PrinceShroom said:
Quote:
PrinceShroom said: 2. Cube stems are usually always hollow
If you want to go around talking about grammar you should make sure you get it right... There are exceptions to every rule.
Cubes are usually hollow and I stand by that.
You call that good grammar? Nevermind.
Cubes are usually hollow or solid depending on genetics and environment. I stand by that.

There may be a tiny little hollow center in the penis envy I grow but hell if I can't see it with my naked eye
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18884328 - 09/24/13 10:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ohhhh, I did use a syringe. so what everyone is saying is that the syringe contains spores from different mushrooms with different genetics, and that may account for all the differences I noticed. (Right?)
It could also be from only one mushroom. IE part of a spore print made into a syringe. Either way one mushroom will produce many different spores like we produce sperms and eggs that will all make unique children.
And most of the time 90% as an estimate my stems are solid. And even that's with mostly MS grows.
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LeopardMan
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18884540 - 09/24/13 11:32 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Blue bruising is the oxidation of phenolic compounds, unrelated to the actives.
Hey Frank, where did you get this information from? As far as I know most of the compunds actually involved in the oxidation process of cubes are still unknown.
What we know for sure is that psilocin is directly related to the blueing process.
That has nothing to do with potency though, cause there are many alkaloids which could cause the mushroom to stain blue and psilocin is just one of them.
If you have more recent information, I am always eager to learn.
EDIT: After some research, I am convinced that you found this information in one of Stamets' books, PMW I guess. But as far as I know, that is old info.
Truth is we still don't know what exactly causes bruising in cubes 
EDIT2: After some more research, I am now convinced that you got this info from Wikipedia. Problem is there is no mention of phenolic compounds in my copy of PMW (Stamets, 1996, pp.56-8). On the contrary Stamets says:"The color reaction is a co-indicator that psilocin is or was present". Adn he also adds:"The more the mushrooms are bruised, the less potent they become" (which is not true as we all know).
Anyway it's wikipedia fault I guess. I know I don't have to say this, but hey it's nothing personal. I am just a curious guy
Edited by LeopardMan (09/24/13 12:28 PM)
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: LeopardMan]
#18884745 - 09/24/13 12:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Good stuff LM! This is what makes this site fantastic 
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LeopardMan
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18884988 - 09/24/13 01:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah, I love this site too. Learn, share, discuss, that's my slogan
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Do older cakes produce less potent mushrooms? [Re: LordHufungus]
#18885762 - 09/24/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
LordHufungus said: I believe that my PF cakes are producing less potent mushrooms as they age. . .
1. Do you think that the mushrooms lose potency as the nutrients are lost from the cake, or some other reason?
2. Why are the stems hollow?
1. No. They're different strains as already said above. Different strains will have different characteristics.
2. Mostly temperature related, but also can be strain. Most strains will get hollow stems during hot growing conditions due to rapid growth, while cooler temperatures generally result in slower growth and denser fruits. RR
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